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Archive 2018 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread

  
 
AndereObjektiv
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p.23 #1 · p.23 #1 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


wolfloid wrote:
Could you demonstrate this more clearly, since the accutance in Zhangue's shots above looks stunning.


To my eyes. But I'm not taking photos for anyone but myself. You're welcome to do the tests. I think the 24-70 is an awesome lens, just not as awesome as ones which cost 2.5 and 4.5 times it's price and are not handy zooms. Is this shocking?

It's true, Zhangue has stunning images. And the 24-70 isn't as good as the leica24 or zeiss85.



Nov 17, 2018 at 12:21 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #2 · p.23 #2 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


mantice wrote:
It will really be helpful if the same lens can be compared to M240; this way any sensor properties plus resolution differences can really show up!

I have no reluctant at all to lend you my M240 for the test if we're neighbors, but unfortunately the pacific is just too big...

Edit: BTW really interested in 24-28mm wide; except 28/2.8ASPH V1 that I owned, really don't know what others perform on M240.


Yeah I will compare to my M240



Nov 17, 2018 at 12:41 PM
joakim
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p.23 #3 · p.23 #3 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


One from today with the 24/3.4 Elmar







Nov 17, 2018 at 02:31 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #4 · p.23 #4 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


zhangyue wrote:
I am still waiting for my Kipon order from Adorama. I don't want stuck another defect one. Ship back international order is a hassle.

I'd like to know how is the Kipon and Fotodiox one compare to each other quality wise. fit and finish. Mount and un-Mount feeling etc....

Can they both take Nikon Z mount lens cap? Shoten can't. if you compare native nikon Z mount lens mount with adapter mount. Shoten has all four notches the same size but Nikon native mount has two of four bigger.



My cheapo adapter is by Fotofox, not Fotodiox. It attaches to the Z easily, it's not loose but I would like it to be tighter. After it clicks to show it's fully rotated, there is a tiny amount of play where you can turn it a fraction more. On the lens side, the lenses attach much tighter. It focuses a little past infinity, which is better than too short!

The first Kipon adapter I tried - the Leica M - didn't start off well with the little red plastic 'ball' indicating the mounting spot falling off! Luckily I saw it, and glued it back on. It fits onto the Z very securely, with zero play. The lens side fits very tightly too with zero play. The way I want an adapter to feel. It too focuses a little past infinity.
What is nice about the Kipons is there is as little silver metal finish as possible, almost everything is anodized flat black which should help minimize reflections etc.

Both of them fit the Z mount cap, but it does not lock on.

Anway, now that I have the Kipon I will sell the Fotofox for $25 shipping/paypal included. If you r in LA, you can pick it up for $20!

Now to download some lens tests I just took...



Nov 17, 2018 at 03:35 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #5 · p.23 #5 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Question:
When I shoot with adapted lenses, the uploaded images are much darker than what I see in the VF. I have the setting d8 Apply Settings to Live View set. Monitor to auto brightness.
This includes the image that is shown on the camera's back screen on playback. It is up to 2 stops brighter than the uploaded file. I am using the Adbobe DNG converter as LR 6 does not support Z7 NEFs.



Nov 17, 2018 at 03:59 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #6 · p.23 #6 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Leica Super Elmarit Asph 18mm 3.8
Balances nicely

[url=https://flic.kr/p/QQCvrE]



Nov 17, 2018 at 05:37 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #7 · p.23 #7 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


My 'test' results. Of note:
RAWs with the only editing being raising the shadows for the edge shots to show more detail. No pic editing done otherwise - no sharpening, no noise reduction, no colour balance, no nothing!
Handheld, no tripod. Focusing w/ 100% magnification through viewfinder.
With Z7 the edge was focused using the magnifier on the edge (i.e. no focus and recompose). Leica focused using the optical rangefinder.
Crops at 1:1, no attempt to balance the sizes between the Z7 and M240, both just at their 'native' 1:1

Also, I have no idea how you doods do this. It's kinda serious OCD, and I have OCD!

Z7 w/ Asph 50 1.4:



@ 1.4 center



@ 1.4 edge



@ 11 center



@ 11 edge



Edited on Nov 17, 2018 at 05:57 PM · View previous versions



Nov 17, 2018 at 05:46 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #8 · p.23 #8 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Z7 w/ Leica 18mm Asph @ 3.8



M240 w/ Leica 18mm Asph @ 3.8



Z7 center @ 3.8



M240 center @ 3.8



Z7 edge @ 3.8



M240 edge @ 3.8



Z7 center @ 11



M240 center @ 11



Z7 edge @ 11



M240 edge @ 11




Nov 17, 2018 at 05:55 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #9 · p.23 #9 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Voigtlander Skopar 21mm f4

Z7



M240



Z7 center @ f4



M240 center @ f4



Z7 edge @ f4



M240 edge @ f4



Z7 center @ f11



M240 center @ f11



Z7 edge @ f11



M240 edge @ f11




Nov 17, 2018 at 06:18 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #10 · p.23 #10 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Voigtlander CV 25 f4

Z7



M240



Z7 center f4



M240 center f4



Z7 edge f4



M240 edge f4



Z7 center f11



M240 center f11



Z7 edge f11



M240 edge f11




Nov 17, 2018 at 06:32 PM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #11 · p.23 #11 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Leica Elmarit 28mm Asph 2.8

Z7



M240



Z7 center 2.8



M240 center 2.8



Z7 edge 2.8



M240 edge 2.8



Z7 center f11



M240 center f11



Z7 edge f11



M240 edge f11




Nov 17, 2018 at 06:44 PM
rico
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p.23 #12 · p.23 #12 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Huss, thanks for testing the Elmarit 28 ASPH. The Z results are in line with my expectations.


Nov 17, 2018 at 07:35 PM
mantice
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p.23 #13 · p.23 #13 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


rico wrote:
Huss, thanks for testing the Elmarit 28 ASPH. The Z results are in line with my expectations.


Wow this is so valuable, thanks for such intensive contribution here!

I did find from above, when mounting on Z7:
(1) Worsen center sharpness in most lenses when stopped down, some really dramatic. (focus shift?)
(2) Some edges never fully recovered, like Elmarit 28 ASPH's smear cleans up, but not sharpened up like in M240, which seems to still have moires on branches.

So I guess this lens isn't going to perform well for landscape even stopped down..(time for update version with metal hood I guess )



Nov 17, 2018 at 08:18 PM
bobring
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p.23 #14 · p.23 #14 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Anyone see a Leica SL mount to Z adapter out there? Am hoping for one as the SL lenses are really good.


Nov 17, 2018 at 08:58 PM
AdaptedLenses
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p.23 #15 · p.23 #15 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Has anyone verified what the 1.1mm stack thickness Kolari reported represents? I ask because Kolari with Sony can only remove 1.8mm, the sensor has a 0.7mm piece of glass that is bonded in a way very few people can remove (2.5mm total). Kolari reported 1.1mm and it sounded as if that’s the total, but given it was a Sony fab sensor, it may have additional glass under that 1.1mm. IIRC Leica is closer to 1mm total, so could explain the difference in performance (and having played with various stack thickness, if Z7 was more like 1.8mm total that seems about right from these tests.

mantice wrote:
Wow this is so valuable, thanks for such intensive contribution here!

I did find from above, when mounting on Z7:
(1) Worsen center sharpness in most lenses when stopped down, some really dramatic. (focus shift?)
(2) Some edges never fully recovered, like Elmarit 28 ASPH's smear cleans up, but not sharpened up like in M240, which seems to still have moires on branches.

So I guess this lens isn't going to perform well for landscape even stopped down..(time for update version with metal hood I guess )




Nov 17, 2018 at 09:10 PM
charles.K
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p.23 #16 · p.23 #16 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Mathieu18 wrote:
Has anyone verified what the 1.1mm stack thickness Kolari reported represents? I ask because Kolari with Sony can only remove 1.8mm, the sensor has a 0.7mm piece of glass that is bonded in a way very few people can remove (2.5mm total). Kolari reported 1.1mm and it sounded as if that’s the total, but given it was a Sony fab sensor, it may have additional glass under that 1.1mm. IIRC Leica is closer to 1mm total, so could explain the difference in performance (and having played with various stack thickness, if Z7 was more like 1.8mm total that seems about
...Show more

Hi Mathieu. I would just email Ilija and ask him

http://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/



Nov 17, 2018 at 11:14 PM
mapgraphs
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p.23 #17 · p.23 #17 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


It's difficult to draw much in the way of meaningful conclusions when comparing a 46mp (8256x5504) sensor with a 23.6mp (5952x3976) sensor, without scaling the higher resolution image down to the lower rez image. Ideally one would want to compare 1:1. The higher rez sensor is also going to be less forgiving with small mis-focus issues. I've seen a lot of Sony samples claiming that this or that lens didn't work on one Sony body or another which were off simply because the point of focus was just beyond infinity - I can recognize this sometimes because I've done the same thing. It is very easy to do, and when done the edges and corners go south - they look bad, no matter what the f/ stop is.

Also one might want to keep in mind that Leica cuts off 24pix on each side and 12pix top and bottom, 5952x3976 on the M (240) and does a similar thing on other models, 5952x3992 on the M10, 5952x3968 on the M-262 etc. (the SL is 6000x4000). So, cross comparisons should probably take these into consideration as well. First fut off the offending 24pix on each side... ; - )

Sony comparisons are problematic because it may be cover glass thickness out of spec, not simply the thickness itself. If some of Roger's asides in his tear-down of the Z7 are a clue, the whole sensor assembly, stack and mount registration may come into play - something Nikon appears to have deliberately designed to avoid (the take-away from Roger's article, imho). We know there are mount registration variations between (apparently all) Sony bodies that affect native lenses ability to hit infinity so, there may be some clues in that too. Sony initially released the a7 and A7R with plastic mounts so it would seem they started out without much concern about tolerances variations... (imho). In contrast, I don't think there is going to be much variation in Leica's manufacturing tolerances.

At any rate, more samples are better. Hopefully my Kipon M to Z arrives soon. In the mean time, the 24-70 s is a gem! ; - )



Nov 17, 2018 at 11:28 PM
mantice
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p.23 #18 · p.23 #18 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


I agree most of it except that the point of adapting M lenses to Z7 (at least for me) is to find its hidden potentials beyond native 24mp sensor, so personally I will definitely not down-sample the Z7 image just for the sake of "fair" comparison.

I do see what I initial guess as focus shift is probably focusing error as you mentioned; still, I always do a smaller scale of comparison myself when I 1st acquire new gear, and it is really really time and energy consuming.

BTW, if we can try diagonal infinity landscape like many members had done elsewhere, the comparison will be more tightly controlled, and details/problems easily reveal, just FYI.



Nov 18, 2018 at 12:58 AM
mcbroomf
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p.23 #19 · p.23 #19 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


bobring wrote:
Anyone see a Leica SL mount to Z adapter out there? Am hoping for one as the SL lenses are really good.


They are electronically controlled aperture right? Will probably have to wait for a company like Metabones to develop a controller. I'm hoping they will come up with one for Canon lenses so that I can use my range of TSE lenses ...



Nov 18, 2018 at 08:57 AM
Desmolicious
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p.23 #20 · p.23 #20 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Desmolicious wrote:
Question:
When I shoot with adapted lenses, the uploaded images are much darker than what I see in the VF. I have the setting d8 Apply Settings to Live View set. Monitor to auto brightness.
This includes the image that is shown on the camera's back screen on playback. It is up to 2 stops brighter than the uploaded file. I am using the Adbobe DNG converter as LR 6 does not support Z7 NEFs.



Anyone have an answer?






Nov 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM
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