When I watch that review, it seems to me that some things just don't make sense. How does this camera focus as well in a low light reception as an A9....he seems a bit vague about whether his video lights were on or not. Any camera can focus with good lighting.
Second, wifi as a backup system is just silly. Wifi is as unreliable as it gets no matter what the device. It is better than nothing, but nobody is going to count on wifi as a reliable backup for a wedding. He definitely had another backup system he's not discussing....probably another camera or another photographer.
Third, the slider occupies prime real estate. Did he put it to good use, absolutely. Is it well implemented as a flexible control system for a variety of purposes, doubtful. Everyone knows a wheel or something with more tactile feedback is more useful.
What I did like was his discussion of the missing joystick. If the touch screen solution works, that does seem like a good system. That being said, the best touch pad solution I've ever used was the old blackberry touch pad (not the ball). You could cover the entire screen precisely using a 1 square cm pad that double as a button. I can't think of a more perfect tool to select autofocus points and everyone uses a slow and clumsy joystick.
I'm glad he's excited about his new purchase, but I suspect when his euphoria wears off, he will have a more balanced perspective.
white wrote:
Well I know Canon sensors very well, I have had lots of them. And now I know first hand what the Sony sensors will. I do not need to hold the R to be disappointed with a warmed over 2 year old sensor that was behind the times when it first came out. There have also been plenty enough real world reviews to get a feel for the less than stellar AF system on the R.
Trust me, I wanted Canon to hit one out of the park as it could have saved me a lot of money changing systems. I ran out of patience with Canon after all these years.
I liked how Canon cameras felt in hand to date, but if the sensor sucks it is all for not anyway. I do find that I also like how the Sony feels in hand and the responsiveness of the AF system.
I was in denial for years, perhaps you still are....Show more →
So the R itself didn't concretely affect your "decision," as you mind was made up in advance. I got a rather different impression from your post.
As to your notion that I might be in denial, I'm not interested in Brand Wars games, I use more than one brand of camera equipment, and I think that Sony, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Fujifilm, et all make fine equipment.
I'll definitely be buying the EOS R....... perhaps Mark 2,3 or 4 when Canon slowly evolves to a more mature system with more RF glass and a body that has "modern" features more on par with the Sony series as well as even Fuji X-t3.
I just cannot jump into a system that is just in it's infancy with little native glass. I do love my Canon gear but to jump to EOS R I'd want Canon lenses that do not do bzt bzt bzt when it auto focuses.
This bt noise for my 5dmk3/4 is the norm as I've only used my Canon gear for still photography. Using my Sony A7iii on a recent Disney trip I found that I could shoot stills and have noise free auto focus video for casual documentation.
Canon will eventually get my wallet but this round .....NOPE!!! Not even a remote chance!!!
There's an interesting summary of an interview with a Canon representative here that gives some important cues about Canon's longer term plans for mirrorless cameras and the place of the current R model in those plans:
(I'm not likely to buy this first release R from Canon — not because I don't think it does what it was intended to do, but because my personal photographic needs are not met by it as well as they are by my existing Canon gear. But I'm also not the target market for the new camera — cameras focusing on photographers like me will come later.)
I have shot with the R for approximately 2 hours. Granted i was only shooting moving cars and people in a large parking lot, however as far as the auto focus was concerned, it seemed to nail it all the time. haven't tried shooting moving birds or anything else at a fast clip, but for what i shot, it had no problems
I just came home after playing with the "R" for a couple of hours next to work the last two days. And hell! I am hooked! I have to wait till thursday, before I have a chance to get it into my hands again.
Never held a better fitting and more comfortable Body in my hands, with and without battery grip. The new AF-System in my opinion is fantastic! I only can laugh about somebody, who says he has heard/read it is awful. My own (and real) experience is completly different. I did not see any AF- system more easy and intuitiv to use. And its super fast and reliable, too. And it works (imo) even faster and more accurate with adaptor and EF-Lenses, then "native" 5D II, 5D III and 6D do.
Everybody should try it out him/herself, before copying any others opinion, I guess.
For sports the body might not be fast enough frameratewise (but maybe it is). I do not do sports nor BIFs. I only shoot people and events. And I guess for my needs the camera is perfect!
Of course I have to say that I just purchased my 3rd 6D two month ago and although this body is already 6 years old I do not see any flaws in it´s sensor performance. So if "R"s sensor is the same like 5D IVs I am pretty sure I will be happy with it. IQ is even better then what I or my customers need.
As soon I see I have the money over I will purchase a "R".
Ralph Conway wrote:
I just came home after playing with the "R" for a couple of hours next to work the last two days. And hell! I am hooked! I have to wait till thursday, before I have a chance to get it into my hands again.
Never held a better fitting and more comfortable Body in my hands, with and without battery grip. The new AF-System in my opinion is fantastic! I only can laugh about somebody, who says he has heard/read it is awful. My own (and real) experience is completly different. I did not see any AF- system more easy and intuitiv to use. And its super fast and reliable, too. And it works (imo) even faster and more accurate with adaptor and EF-Lenses, then "native" 5D II, 5D III and 6D do.
Everybody should try it out him/herself, before copying any others opinion, I guess.
For sports the body might not be fast enough frameratewise (but maybe it is). I do not do sports nor BIFs. I only shoot people and events. And I guess for my needs the camera is perfect!
Of course I have to say that I just purchased my 3rd 6D two month ago and although this body is already 6 years old I do not see any flaws in it´s sensor performance. So if "R"s sensor is the same like 5D IVs I am pretty sure I will be happy with it. IQ is even better then what I or my customers need.
As soon I see I have the money over I will purchase a "R".
I'm seriously consider buying EOS R as a secondary/back up camera to 5D IV for wedding. I'm used to shooting with 6D as a secondary camera for non-important wedding portion. Using a wifi as a back up is a hassle to connect each and everytime you turn on/off the camera, but it's good to know the option is available. I might get EOS R and use it as a rental until EOS R Pro come out.
Despite its many flaw, it definitely win in many department that's important to me - Good ergonomics, EF compatibility, high resolution EVF, and Canon color.
I tried Sony A7III, 7RIII, A9 and the EVF wasn't to my liking. I'm glad to hear many reports that the EVF is very nice.
"So the R itself didn't concretely affect your "decision," as you mind was made up in advance. I got a rather different impression from your post.
As to your notion that I might be in denial, I'm not interested in Brand Wars games, I use more than one brand of camera equipment, and I think that Sony, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Fujifilm, et all make fine equipment."
I am not sure you really read my post or understand my point of view so I will try one more time.
I was very heavily invested in Canon and very much wanted a product that would step up to the plate to give me the AF and sensor abilities others have been enjoying for a while now. I have been embracing the advantages of mirrorless with an extensive Olympus system that I also use, (more specifically for travel due to it's size and form factor). I was happy with the DSLR form factor overall on my Canon system but felt left behind in sensor and AF performance. If Canon had a "D850" I would be happy to stay parked for a while and give them time to refine the R.
But they don't have anything that really compares to the image quality and performance of a D850 or A7R3 etc. And the launch of the R gave me the strong feeling that even after all this time Canon was continuing to be completely tone deaf with a rewarmed old sensor, missing features such as IBIS, and an AF system that a good sampling of regarded reviews indicate is not cutting edge. At this point, how the camera would actually feel in my hands becomes irrelevant if it's core abilities are gutted.
So I did want it until the details became clear.
Canon make some great lenses and I am sure that they will have more wonderful introductions. But they are not the only ones making good lenses either.
They will likely have better R versions in the future, but I have this strong feeling they will lag significantly in sensors for a protracted length of time. Life is too short and I want better sensor quality now, I have been patient for too long. For my shooting, this is a real barrier I encounter a lot in my landscape work and not just some numbers in a review.
And having one other system, (Olympus for size), is enough for me. I do not want to be fractionated in my equipment more than that. It is hard enough moving between the ergonomics of two systems.
So I was a strong supporter of Canon but Canon did not support me. I have overcome my own denial of Canon's short comings in critical areas. That is all I have to say.
white wrote:
"So the R itself didn't concretely affect your "decision," as you mind was made up in advance. I got a rather different impression from your post.
As to your notion that I might be in denial, I'm not interested in Brand Wars games, I use more than one brand of camera equipment, and I think that Sony, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Fujifilm, et all make fine equipment."
I am not sure you really read my post or understand my point of view so I will try one more time.
I was very heavily invested in Canon and very much wanted a product that would step up to the plate to give me the AF and sensor abilities others have been enjoying for a while now. I have been embracing the advantages of mirrorless with an extensive Olympus system that I also use, (more specifically for travel due to it's size and form factor). I was happy with the DSLR form factor overall on my Canon system but felt left behind in sensor and AF performance. If Canon had a "D850" I would be happy to stay parked for a while and give them time to refine the R.
But they don't have anything that really compares to the image quality and performance of a D850 or A7R3 etc. And the launch of the R gave me the strong feeling that even after all this time Canon was continuing to be completely tone deaf with a rewarmed old sensor, missing features such as IBIS, and an AF system that a good sampling of regarded reviews indicate is not cutting edge. At this point, how the camera would actually feel in my hands becomes irrelevant if it's core abilities are gutted.
So I did want it until the details became clear.
Canon make some great lenses and I am sure that they will have more wonderful introductions. But they are not the only ones making good lenses either.
They will likely have better R versions in the future, but I have this strong feeling they will lag significantly in sensors for a protracted length of time. Life is too short and I want better sensor quality now, I have been patient for too long. For my shooting, this is a real barrier I encounter a lot in my landscape work and not just some numbers in a review.
And having one other system, (Olympus for size), is enough for me. I do not want to be fractionated in my equipment more than that. It is hard enough moving between the ergonomics of two systems.
So I was a strong supporter of Canon but Canon did not support me. I have overcome my own denial of Canon's short comings in critical areas. That is all I have to say. ...Show more →
So the "R" like every new gear shows that everybody has different needs.
For me a comfortable & usable viefinder has a much higher priority then top DR sensor performance. To be able to use EF lenses without any restrictions and with more power in speed and accuracy then with (my previous) "native EF bodies" is more important then any 4K video crop (did I ever see a 4K V-blog?).
Indeed it is the first time I see a possibility and way to use more then 1 center AF-Point for my way of photographing people. Sony did not offer this to me, Nikon neither.
And Sony asks for 1-2K € more for an usable but not state of the art EVF.
All those companies did their homework and decided different, what is important.
So If one prefers an a7R 3 or A9 go with it. What is wrong with it?
I do not have a big investment in Canon glas over. Indeed I sold all my glas except 1 lens within the last 3 years because it turned out to be cheaper to rent a lens when needed for a job or for fun. So nothing nails me to any brand.
The main cause for me to go mirrorless (FF) is my growing age-related longsightedness, that more and more interrupts my photographic workflow. So for me based on MY fact that all actual camera bodies are able to produce excellent pictures, the EVF is the most important feature, followed by ergonomics (hard- and software), users pleasure and of course the money I have to pay. And concerning my needs and my feeling the only hint of the "R" is its price. I think it is way to high and Canon should have asked for 3000 € for the body, adapter, BG and native 24-105 bundeled. But the price imo is always to high with canon like with all other brands. Sonys a 7 III was the first time I saw a great start price for a camera. But based on its crippled EVF (useless for me), horrible ergonomics and desaster Menu it was NOT low enough. In opposite Canon catched me again. Because they did what I need and (most of what I) want. Like they did since 1995.
Agree Conny, and reasons, among others why I just got the R with kit lens and adapter. My primary reasons for jumping in the boat were form and weight factors, the excellent EVF, and AF off the sensor giving me another round of improvement in EF lens performance. I also like getting into the R game early, refreshing my photographic interest. I think Canon know where they are going with R and aren't in a huRRy.
Just tried some indoor stationery shots with 100-400 with 2x iii ext on, going back and forth from distance to close subjects. Shooting at f11 with iso from 10,000 to 40,000. I find that the AF pts are indeed full 5655, but it will hunt when using single pt quite a bit in either single shot or servo AF. I got the best results when using single with 8 expanded points, or AF area. Touch and drag works normally. Overall, it is useable but it is not as nimble as with 1.4x on, when the AF is noticeable faster. In any case, that's something neither my 1Dx2 or 5d4 can do w 2x, so I am happy how things are progressing with mirrorless system and did with a gen 1 product. It will only get better as they improve it and come out with a sports or pro body.
last week I bought the R. I am a regular hobby photographer, this is my 5th camera in the past 18 years of Canon and I must say that I am super happy. I photograph landscapes and historic buildings and I am deeply impressed. For me this is my last, maybe I have a 6D also. I can work with touch & drag or just focus with the arrow buttons or the wheels.
For me it is an update that I will not soon forget, i love the good feeling with this camera. With the perfect EVF, I as wearing glasses can only benefit, the EVF is clearer than the OVF. I don't have to put it very close to my left eye but that is personal. I hope Canon makes a good pro R for the professionals, a 60MP or something like that.
Shoot well and have fun.
Paul
The more reviews I see the more it seems this camera is total capable of being an awesome camera. I just find it a bit expensive compared to other mirrorless with more capabilities. At a lower price point I'm willing to buy it. Glass also seems expensive as Sony glass, but being able to use EF glass that works as native is amazing. I'll give it a couple of months for Canon to realizes it priced it way to high like they did the 6DII. I'm hoping they lower the price in a few months. I seriously wouldn't mind owing one just for photos. I don't do video at all.
esanchez wrote:
The more reviews I see the more it seems this camera is total capable of being an awesome camera. I just find it a bit expensive compared to other mirrorless with more capabilities. At a lower price point I'm willing to buy it. Glass also seems expensive as Sony glass, but being able to use EF glass that works as native is amazing. I'll give it a couple of months for Canon to realizes it priced it way to high like they did the 6DII. I'm hoping they lower the price in a few months. I seriously wouldn't mind owing one just for photos. I don't do video at all....Show more →
Hello, for a lot of people it is not capebel for this price. When the camera costs about 1800 US dollars, than the camera will be capebel. So you have to waight half a year i hope for you.
Have fun.
Paul
finally got to try the R and overall i quite like it!
it felt just like a canon body when i picked it up and even going in blind handling it for the first time i pretty much got the feel for it after only a few mins so kudos to canon for keeping that great ergo (and that nice meaty grip), felt pretty comfortable (confident) hanging it off my finger tips off my hips, can't say that with any of the sony bodies i've tried
auto focus felt snappy and seems accurate enough (for still objects), EVF looks quite good and screen at the back looks excellent as per typical canon
not sure how i feel about the touch bar yet but that's probably more to unfamiliarity having only spent a short time with it
the 24-105 i tried with the body handled great, looks sharp on the lcd screen but barrel distortion seemed prominent at 24mm tho
one thing that i hated and would be what stops me buying the R is the touch and drag method of moving af points, for whatever reason it just doesn't seem to be responsive enough which made it a pain to use for me when looking through the EVF, might also be the fact that i'm left eye dominant meaning my nose is touching the screen the whole time i don't know, i even tried setting it so the touch and drag area is only on the bottom right/left part of the lcd screen and it was still not good for me, i also tried the Z7 and to me having that joystick there is just a far superior method to maneuver the af points imho, it managed to move the af point/box from one end to the other quite quickly just holding the joystick down the direction i wanted it to go
so yea ended up voting other mainly for the fact that i hated the touch and drag method of moving af point but also the fact that i just prefer to wait and see what second gen/"pro" versions bring because i would like to see a bit more long term usage experiences as well as more maturity/refinement in the future bodies
Have been in Japan for the last 10 days wizzing around.
The launch of the R here has been huge.
Seminars by many photographers with high profiles in the big stores like Bic and zyodabashi chain all over the country.
Went to one on Osaka and couldn’t understand almosy anything except the beautiful imagee being shown.
Must say i wasntvrealkybinterested however a few non spec things which have seem to have garned attention are really attractive.
The seemingly very very good AF with TC’s on long lenses looks like a winner.
The AF point selection via touch is on my first try was intuitive and easy to use...
The R has launched very successfully here indeed selling out quickly.
The other big surprise is the number of second hand D850’s and D5’s on the market compared to 1DxMk2’s and 5Dmk4’s...at least 7:1 ratio...
It was either another 5D IV used or EOS R as my backup. I went with EOS R. The ergonomic and EVF are great. Much better than Sony A7III, A9, A7RIII but it's missing alot of features from Sony. EyeAF is still behind Sony. It's smaller and lighter than my 5D IV yet still has a nice grip.
All my EF lens work well with it and I do like control ring. I thought touch to drag would be a problem but it works surprisingly well compared to joystick on 5D IV. Once EOS R Pro come out with dual card slot, I'm likely to replace my 5D IV.
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