p.10 #1 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
edit: I think I made a wrong claim that single point AFC and AFS are hybride AF, upon further test, I believe they are all PDAF. I don’t know what happen with my setting yesterday. Now I believe Z7’s Auto area face detection is not as good as D850. My focus fine tune was just compensate its back focus problem with face detection on. It can lock to back eye which seldom happen with D850. I noticed it’s back focus behavior with 70-200f4 during auto area with face detection on as well even with good day light. Not a big deal for me personally, but I hope it can be more reliable with future firmware update. And conclusion is I need AF fine all my AF f glass for Z7. I need a fast S glass to confirm if S glass having hybrids AF. Or maybe a real low light setting for FTz and F glass to see if Z7 have CDAF for f glass at all. Will update this later. Sorry for the wrong info, guys. ...Show more →
I corrected my post I reported earlier here but itself is wrong by claiming Z7 only have PDAF for F glass. At least one thing I reported was actually true is 58G focused more accurately on Z7 than D850.
As promised, I did the test myself again yesterday night:
First of all, Z7 definitely will use CDAF with FTZ and F AF glass. I tested it at very dark place,(iso 25600, 1/10s still under exposure by about one or two stop with f1.4 glass) its AF behave very differently now with high pitch pulsating motor sound. Enable 'Low light AF' in manual or not doesn't change final CDAF step, so either way Z7 will have CDAF in single point AF mode I tried. With good light, it is fast and quiet so that very hard to tell the CDAF step.
The difference between enable "low light AF" or not is: the AF seems work slower and take longer to get final focusing With low light AF on. There must be some algorithm changing to work under low light contrast calculation. I enabled it by default as it doesn't affect Z7 normal AF operating under good light, the camera will automatically determine using it when it Is under real low light condition.
I also noticed by enter AF fine tune value, the AF result will change. This puzzled me yesterday so I guess Z7 has PDAF only for F glass. Now, I think I figured it out PDAF will only decide initial focus DOF window, after that initial step, CDAF will kick in to determine the best focusing WITHIN that window. So, if you purposely mess up with AF fine tune, you changed inititial PDAF dof window. CDAF will only give you best results within that window.
You don't need worry this fine tune most of time though, for all my AF glass, only 58G need -3. rest of them all perfect as is. (this is the benefit to have PDAF on sensor than SLR's separate CCD AF module)
Anyway, now I hope this helps. It help me understand the camera behavior so I can use it wiser in field.
p.10 #4 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Hi, Joakim, Beautiful rendering from 28E. I haven't decided yet what to do with 28E in the future. If I get 35S, 28E most likely will go. However, it is such a nice lens. One of best Nikon ever designed.
I agree with balance. Ergonomically, the flat bottom FTZ offer a pivot point for holding, so I get very good vibration free keepers with F glass.
However, FTZ is also posting one of biggest operating issue. With Arca plate on body, I can't remove or attach it. This become very awkward in field that I have to have allen wrench in my pocket all the time if I use tripod.
p.10 #5 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Thanks Michael, I had the exact same issue today with my Arca plate. For now I live with it but if I am going to mix Z and F lenses a lot in the future I might get an L-plate designed for the Z7.
p.10 #6 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
One more, this time with the zoom. Being able to quickly switch between image formats and seeing in the EVF/LCD how the image will be is a treat. 16:9 with the zoom.
p.10 #7 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
So the in-camera histogram seems to be off somewhat and warn about burnt highlights way to early, not surprising I guess since I haven't tried to adjust the settings at all. Anyone that has started experimenting with this or maybe has some experience from adjusting the D850?
p.10 #8 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Hi, Joakim, Nice and pleasing color again. I also really like the composition of first one.
Were you referring you always underexposure based on histogram? I find the opposite: Many time, Either there is highlight burning stay outside of histogram or the area with blow out highlight is relative small compare to whole frame that you won't notice in histogram. You really need to underexposure further to bring those highlight back into histogram. A few images I post some page ago had this highlight burn out problem. Z7 has great latitude in RAW, so you should be able to recover by underexposure 3 or more stop in shadow. However, in real world usage, you still need make judgement either keep all highlight by underexposure more to have mid-tone and shadow suffer a little or just let highlight burn out to have better mid-tone shadow tonality and color. (like the 2nd image you shown above.)
For example, if I take flower images, especially involve red channel, I will not based on Histogram at all but need be really careful to not burn any channel of RGB. Histogram is luminosity based that it will not be accurate enough to represent individual channel, red usually has more problem because of bayer filter. Otherwise, color will suffer.
BTW, I am starting use in body IS more with Z7, I haven't find any ill effect so far which is not my experience on in-body IS before. However, this is hard to qualify. I really need take a lot of images to draw any conclusion. For now, I enable it by default until I see things go wrong later.
p.10 #9 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
Hi, Joakim, Nice and pleasing color again. I also really like the composition of first one.
Were you referring you always underexposure based on histogram? I find the opposite: Many time, Either there is highlight burning stay outside of histogram or the area with blow out highlight is relative small compare to whole frame that you won't notice in histogram. You really need to underexposure further to bring those highlight back into histogram. A few images I post some page ago had this highlight burn out problem. Z7 has great latitude in RAW, so you should be able to recover by underexposure 3 or more stop in shadow. However, in real world usage, you still need make judgement either keep all highlight by underexposure more to have mid-tone and shadow suffer a little or just let highlight burn out to have better mid-tone shadow tonality and color. (like the 2nd image you shown above.)
For example, if I take flower images, especially involve red channel, I will not based on Histogram at all but need be really careful to not burn any channel of RGB. Histogram is luminosity based that it will not be accurate enough to represent individual channel, red usually has more problem because of bayer filter. Otherwise, color will suffer.
BTW, I am starting use in body IS more with Z7, I haven't find any ill effect so far which is not my experience on in-body IS before. However, this is hard to qualify. I really need take a lot of images to draw any conclusion. For now, I enable it by default until I see things go wrong later.
p.10 #10 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
akul wrote:
Michael, WOW, I mean, WOW ! Beautiful shot.
Luka
Luka, Thanks a lot. It is all about camera
One more problem, I feel Z7's raw is not that good yet in Adobe right now. It can be broken down quickly from process and color and tonality is not there yet. D850 file are more relaxed and respond better with PP. I look forward it get better support in near future.
After last week Yosemite trip, I feel this Z7 is no doubt the best MILC tool on the market for me maybe before next PLS body and 4th generation Sony coming.
Most internet users still make deal out of street price, AFC performance for bird, sports or track running kids etc....
That is the reason I create this thread here. Let us take a look from ALT forum user perspective,
It offers:
45M with ISO64
almost 100% AF point coverage with superb AF-S accuracy for both native and F glass.
Format ratio on fly with 16:9, 5X4, DX, 1X1 and 1.2crop
Lossless compressed RAW with Mraw and Sraw option
Small size and weight with decent handhodablity
Best of EVF experience with almost zero shutter delay and black out
Ergonomics is the best I ever used only 2nd to Leica in field for simplicity. The most used button such as DISPLAY are easy to access and large enough even for control with glove. (It is from my personal experience in the cold morning in Yosemite).
High resolution LCD with responsive touch screen control.
Image review, manual input all responsive like a Nikon SLR.
Shutter is typical Nikon snapy and no lag but significant quieter than D850, even D810.
High performance zoom lens with nice size and weight.
Future proof Z mount with 1.1mm sensor stack (I will update this once I got M adapter)
IBIS and Video...
The list is going on......
Again for anyone interested in Z7 tech information, please do visit http://blog.kasson.com, pretty much only blog worth to visit in terms of technical POI.
It looks like Nikon's claim they don't have on-sensor PDAF reflection banding during strong backlight is valid. Remember I reported earlier in this thread.
The shadow noise banding so far is still a mystery. Jim can't recreate it during his normal shooting condition with 6 stop push, however, he was able to recreated the banding sometimes with uneven light setup. Nobody really know what happened so far, one thing I took from it, it is hardly an issue at all from real world shooting. I haven't found a single case from my use and no, I won't look for it.
one with 24-70S. Earlier morning, I waited one hour for light come up like this. It was really cold.
p.10 #12 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Michael, awesome shots and thank you for your detailed thoughts! I still have many Z7 raws that I also have issues with Adobe Lr in getting the best raw conversions. I feel once Adobe have updated the raw processor there will be outstanding images being presented by many
p.10 #13 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
That is the reason I create this thread here. Let us take a look from ALT forum user perspective,
It offers:
Thanks, Michael, for the helpful summary. A couple of questions: First, is the quietness due to lack of moving mirror. Perhaps the D810 shutter is equally quiet in MUP mode. Second, does image review have an overexposure indicator for each color channel? I make limited use of histograms, but the "blinkies" are vital to me and I review each channel as needed in studio situations.
p.10 #14 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
charles.K wrote:
Michael, awesome shots and thank you for your detailed thoughts! I still have many Z7 raws that I also have issues with Adobe Lr in getting the best raw conversions. I feel once Adobe have updated the raw processor there will be outstanding images being presented by many
Yes, right now the default setting for sharpening and noise is very different than before. There is no lens profile as well. I still use old setting for myself however I feel it is may not optimized for Z7 file. It just seems take more time to make difficult exposed image works without having discontinued tonality.
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rico wrote:
Thanks, Michael, for the helpful summary. A couple of questions: First, is the quietness due to lack of moving mirror. Perhaps the D810 shutter is equally quiet in MUP mode. Second, does image review have an overexposure indicator for each color channel? I make limited use of histograms, but the "blinkies" are vital to me and I review each channel as needed in studio situations.
Actually D850 Qc shutter is pretty nice, I default use it. It can be used with enable EFC, so no front curtain vibration. However, it is also slower and having more lag. D810 default shutter is quieter than D850. It Q shutter is not that different and not that useful to me. I almost never use both MLU mode unless I am on tripod, I can't see anything handhold with MLU with SLR. Even shoot with LCD, I feel there are lots of action involved using MLU mode after push shutter, slow with multiple action sound. (Mirror down up and down, sutter curtain up and down etc....) make it not very useful for most cases.
Z7 shutter is a lot quieter than D850, and quieter than D850 Qc and D810. If you enable EFC, which I did most of time if under 1/2000s, it even more quieter and also feel more snapier. I am quite peaky on shutter TBH. With Z7, I don't miss silent shutter at all, it is so quiet and responsive. Now, it have better implementation than Nikon DSLR which I rave before
For histogram, yes, after capture, you can select viewing individual channel, and also with option blink for blow up highlight. However, I was not able to make histogram display show individual channel before capture. Maybe there is a way just I haven't figured it out yet.
p.10 #16 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Very promising initial test results with SHOTEN LM-NZ adapter for Leica M mount lenses It appears the edge smearing has been reduced or eliminated. Early days still
p.10 #17 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Wow, look forward to get mine within next couple of days. What is going on here with Nikon, it is totally unexpected. Too good to be true.
On a side note, I do think maybe even D850 has thinner sensor stack as well. I wildly guess this earlier in this thread based on WA (14-24) performance difference between A7Rii and D810.
charles.K wrote:
Adobe has just released today updates for Z7 raw
Very promising initial test results with SHOTEN LM-NZ adapter for Leica M mount lenses It appears the edge smearing has been reduced or eliminated. Early days still
p.10 #18 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
Wow, look forward to get mine within next couple of days. What is going on here with Nikon, it is totally unexpected. Too good to be true.
On a side note, I do think maybe even D850 has thinner sensor stack as well. I wildly guess this earlier in this thread based on WA (14-24) performance difference between A7Rii and D810.
p.10 #20 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Great Photos all.
I have a newbish question: Of all the newest mirrorless offerings, which system will have the smallest adapters for older SLR lenses? I was flipping through the vacation setup thread and there was a beautiful shot of the A7III + some contax lenses but I remembered how I hated the size of the FE->CY adapter. I currently shoot with an RIII+Voigtlander VME/LTM lenses because they are small but wanted to know if the new lense mount diameters will affect the adapter thickness for Nikon or Canon.
PDAF will only decide initial focus DOF window, after that initial step, CDAF will kick in to determine the best focusing WITHIN that window. So, if you purposely mess up with AF fine tune, you changed inititial PDAF dof window. CDAF will only give you best results within that window. 
