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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Ralph Conway
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p.64 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

No. That is not what or how our eye is able to see. If you focus the window your iris will close and the subject in the room will disapear in the dark. You have to focus it and the iris will become wider again and you will recognice the details in the darker room while the window burns out again. It is not possible for the eye to set focus and sensitivness on both. One can SEE this in extreme lightchanges where it needs time for the eye to regulate down or up.
The point is just, that in usual...Show more →

Yes. It is. And thank you. Talking and writing about made me aware again, what a great wonder creation is.

Jul 24, 2017 at 04:22 PM

Rusty1
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p.64 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Adorama reports it is starting to ship pre-ordered 6DIIs this afternoon.

Jul 24, 2017 at 04:49 PM

cgarcia
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p.64 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

charlyw wrote:
I just never have encountered worthwhile shooting conditions (situations where your subject wouldn't need to be sacrificed for the benefit of using up said dynamic range) where 1 or even 2 EV more dynamic range would have meant a difference...

Just take a look at the shadows of this ISO 100 picture from 5DSR:

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5251445179/sigma-14mm-f1-8-art-sample-gallery/4580637789

The original Canon image embedded in the RAW denotes a perfect exposure to keep the highlights at the left side. But it is not a realistic picture as our eye would have seen it at the place. Processed with ACR, the minor shadows recovery required (not HDR, only to get a realistic look) causes the right side to turn into ugly noise.

Not a photographer error. Not a scene requiring multiple exposures. Only a Sony sensor (the 5D4 is better, but is not yet there) and you are done with a perfect single photo. With the 5DS you are only left with the option to not print a huge poster from it.

"Photography" means "paint with light". In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV. And yes, at high ISO/sports all current sensors perform similarly. But many people mostly shoot at low ISO, using the full sensor potential. Remember: "paint with light" (each time the ISO doubles, the sensor is tuned to saturate with half the light).

Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 05:03 PM · View previous versions

Jul 24, 2017 at 05:02 PM

Wayne M
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p.64 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Rusty1 wrote:
Adorama reports it is starting to ship pre-ordered 6DIIs this afternoon.

Weird, I just googled Adorama. Their Google search says "same day shipping on Canon 6d II. I went to site and acted as if i was ordering...it still says pre-order, but as I clicked to put it in my cart, it said "in-stock." However if I had moved forward with checkout it was back to pr-order status and so forth..................

Jul 24, 2017 at 05:02 PM

RustyBug
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p.64 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

B&H still shows "processing" ...

As to DR ... here's an old interior / exterior image that I shot with my Kodak SLR/C. I'd probably PP it a little bit differently today, but hopefully you get the gist.

As a real estate photographer, it is frequent to run into the fact that you have two VERY DIFFERENT light levels interior vs. exterior. Outside can simply be "Sunny 16", while inside can be anything from "something less" to Dracula's Cave (see opposite room, i.e. both rooms started with same ambient level).

Jul 24, 2017 at 06:12 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.64 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

cgarcia wrote:
...
"Photography" means "paint with light". In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV.

Absolutely wrong. It depends, of what you need and want. Please let me explain after your next sentence, that was:

And yes, at high ISO/sports all current sensors perform similarly. But many people mostly shoot at low ISO, using the full sensor potential. Remember: "paint with light" (each time the ISO doubles, the sensor is tuned to saturate with half the light).

Here we are. At high ISO ALL sensors in reality PERFORM DIFFERENT in case of noise and color rendering. Your statement shows that you never use high ISO.
Compared to two further stops in IQ at High ISO (for example ISO 6.400 to 25K) for those, who need it its a much bigger advantadge than 2 stops higher DR. Painting with light does not mean painting in base ISO, only. Nor does "full sensor potential" mean "highest possible DR. That is the point in this whole discussion that makes me helpless.

Where do you know from that "many people mostly shoot at low ISO" ? You might do, yes.

I still would shoot my excellent 30D if I would shoot at low ISO. DR was excellent enough for my needs. I switched to 5D II because of the better low light performance only. Up to 3600 it worked fine. But I came in permanent troubble at ISO 6400 (because banding started). That was the only cause, why I switched to 6D. Excellent banding free high ISO with acceptable noise up tu ISO 12K. NO other camera offered this 5 years ago. Not Nikon D700, D600/610 not Canons 5D III nor 1DX.

The success of 6D proofed that many photographers indeed shoot mostly at (much) higher ISO than you believe. This is the cause why a camera like 6D was so successfull and could be sold with (still today) top reviews over 5 years now, while top DR bodies have to be exchanged all 2-3 years.

6Ds -3EV center AV made it possible to shoot at ISO 25k using AF and nailing the pic. Absolute impossible with 5D II, III or any earlier body. This is why I am sad, that Canon did not go further their own route and added -4EV to 6D II.
The last testresults seem to show, that 6D IIs ISO 12K and higher catches up with 5D IV and maybee 1DX II.
This is fantastic. And in my opinion much more important for most shooters than a 14 stops DR, that they will never use, need or see. For those who need 14 stops DR there is a great number of cameras "better" than 6D II already available.
Why must 6D II have it, too? And loose the advantadges it has, wich are very important for many (in my opinion most) shooters?

Painting with light does not only mean bright sunlight only. There is moon- and starlight, backlight, sidelight or the low light of a little fireplace, too. Things you can not shoot with or you would destroy by using a flashes. You would destroy it in many cases by pushing the dark areas, too.

Painting with light does not mean, that it is not allowed to paint with hard contrasts, too.

Conny

Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 07:51 PM · View previous versions

Jul 24, 2017 at 07:36 PM

RustyBug
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p.64 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

cgarcia wrote:

In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV.

Have you checked the DR on MFD cameras?

Does that mean that the Fuji S5 Pro is superior to the 645 or ZD in all regards of IQ because it has a higher DR?

Edited on Jul 24, 2017 at 08:00 PM · View previous versions

Jul 24, 2017 at 07:44 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.64 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Where are they at 12k?

Hell, how do they push shadows? At base ISO?
Does it mean, they are worse tools, because they do not reach 14,5 stops DR AND do not offer High ISO?

Jul 24, 2017 at 07:53 PM

EB-1
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p.64 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I'm just astounded at the number of perfect photographers here who never encounter shooting conditions outside the dynamic range of their cameras.

charlyw wrote:
I just never have encountered worthwhile shooting conditions (situations where your subject wouldn't need to be sacrificed for the benefit of using up said dynamic range) where 1 or even 2 EV more dynamic range would have meant a difference...

cgarcia wrote:
Just take a look at the shadows of this ISO 100 picture from 5DSR:

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5251445179/sigma-14mm-f1-8-art-sample-gallery/4580637789

The original Canon image embedded in the RAW denotes a perfect exposure to keep the highlights at the left side. But it is not a realistic picture as our eye would have seen it at the place. Processed with ACR, the minor shadows recovery required (not HDR, only to get a realistic look) causes the right side to turn into ugly noise.

Not a photographer error. Not a scene requiring multiple exposures. Only a Sony sensor (the 5D4 is better, but is not yet there) and you are...Show more →

Why would anyone photograph a scene with such ugly light?
I'm all for better sensors, but that is a prime example of when not to shoot. All the DR in the world won't make bad light into a good photo, not to mention a perfect one.

EBH

Jul 24, 2017 at 08:11 PM

Kolbasz
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p.64 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Wayne M wrote:
Weird, I just googled Adorama. Their Google search says "same day shipping on Canon 6d II. I went to site and acted as if i was ordering...it still says pre-order, but as I clicked to put it in my cart, it said "in-stock." However if I had moved forward with checkout it was back to pr-order status and so forth..................

I finally just went for it and ordered one from adorama, we shall see when it ships

Jul 24, 2017 at 10:09 PM

-pekr-
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p.64 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Ralph Conway wrote:
Why must 6D II have it, too? And loose the advantadges it has, wich are very important for many (in my opinion most) shooters?

Conny

Well, I think it might not be cgarcia who got it wrong, but actually you - do D750 or 5DIV lose any high ISO advantage, just because they offer better low ISO DR?

It all boils down to a single fact - Canon screw-up big time with the 6DII. For absolutly no apparent reason, they did not follow the pattern of 5DIV, 80D/70D, M5/M6 sensors.

Whatever you speculate about as a potential reason, I just don't care. In the world of all those nice advancements, I am not here to spend 2K on the camera having sensor performing the same or even worse than its 5 years old predecessor. With the 4-5 years of product iteration, it simply means 10 years with mostly zero advancement in a sensor area. Not acceptable, done on purpose, end of story.

And please - save you rudiculous half an hour postprocessing experiments of how to cure the situation to yourself - it does not help the case at all - your low ISO performance will not match the above mentioned cameras and that's just it. Live with it. And no, bracketing is not always an option.

I am quite OK with a recent situation - Canon just pushed us to the 5DIV. We will trade it giving up on 24-70/2.8 II initially, so that we can afford 5DIV. But in no way, in a photo club or between the young ppl here, is 6DII going to be suggested as an entry into FF. Not in my book.

In fact, it might be already happening - lurking in the biggest photo store here for almost 2 hours, watching sales persons and ppl trying new stuff, Canon is the last thing being suggested, as well as the last thing between the youngsters to look into. Well, just my experience anyway.

In the long run, Canon is going to pay for the recent situation more than they can admit now. Of course they will still sell to the photo-clueless masses, but surely not to those, who develop in the photo discipline further, expanding their ecosystem over the time ....

Jul 24, 2017 at 11:56 PM

Paul Mo
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p.64 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

-pekr- wrote:
Of course they will still sell to the photo-clueless masses, but surely not to those, who develop in the photo discipline further...

Clueless masses who are not interested in furthering their discipline. Mmmm...

Jul 25, 2017 at 12:51 AM

charlyw
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p.64 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

-pekr- wrote:
Of course they will still sell to the photo-clueless masses, but surely not to those, who develop in the photo discipline further, expanding their ecosystem over the time ....

Sorry, those that develop further into "photo discipline" are those that don't need that headline figure "DR" - because they develop further into photography and they then know how little gains there are in this... It's important for those that have given up on photography!

Jul 25, 2017 at 01:10 AM

RobDickinson
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p.64 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

I dont think I've given up yet, and I can tell you the sony files I have are better than the canon ones.

Jul 25, 2017 at 01:11 AM

Paul Mo
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p.64 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I dont think I've given up yet, and I can tell you the sony files I have are better than the canon ones.

And that's where Sony strength currently lies - static subjects.

Jul 25, 2017 at 01:21 AM

charlyw
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p.64 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I dont think I've given up yet, and I can tell you the sony files I have are better than the canon ones.

That doesn't mean that the photos are any better, just that the files are "better" at being malhandled...

Jul 25, 2017 at 01:51 AM

RobDickinson
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p.64 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Neither camera improve my photography but one provides better results than the other..

Is that so hard to understand?

I, personally, was looking forward to buying a 6dmk2 with 5d4 like image quality.

Jul 25, 2017 at 01:53 AM

Paul Mo
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p.64 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

charlyw wrote:
That doesn't mean that the photos are any better, just that the files are "better" at being malhandled...

Not necessarily true or that they are.

Jul 25, 2017 at 02:16 AM

charlyw
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p.64 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I, personally, was looking forward to buying a 6dmk2 with 5d4 like image quality.

What of the current feature set of the 6DII would you have sacrificed to get that? 4 FPS instead of 6.5? No articulated screen? No Wifi? No GPS? No touchscreen? Sorry, Canon looked at the figures and struck a balance - you don't like the balance, tough luck.But many will like the feature set as it is and DR is only a very very minor concern outside the hard core forums. Only a few very vocal protagonists tout that it's the end of Canon - but it won't, the camera will sell because of the features it provides - and those buyers will care little about that nats' wing of DR that they never use...

Jul 25, 2017 at 02:35 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.64 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

-pekr- wrote:
Well, I think it might not be cgarcia who got it wrong, but actually you - do D750 or 5DIV lose any high ISO advantage, just because they offer better low ISO DR?

It all boils down to a single fact - Canon screw-up big time with the 6DII. For absolutly no apparent reason, they did not follow the pattern of 5DIV, 80D/70D, M5/M6 sensors.

Whatever you speculate about as a potential reason, I just don't care. In the world of all those nice advancements, I am not here to spend 2K on the camera having sensor performing the same or...Show more →

Your postings do not look shorter to me. And I do not see any content, pekr.
But it is redicoulus to see, that while I talk about MY wishes, needs and experience, you always talk about "OURs".and "US". Read your own post above. If you do not like my posts, because I show you that "YOU" are not "US" you can feel free, not to read them.

If you do not want to spend 2000 $ on a 6D II, nobody forces you. There may be some others (at least one - me - ) who are really interested to get the 5D IV high ISO IQ for half the price. And D750 does not play in that high ISO region.

Conny

Jul 25, 2017 at 02:47 AM

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