cgarcia wrote:
...
"Photography" means "paint with light". In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV.
Absolutely wrong. It depends, of what you need and want. Please let me explain after your next sentence, that was:
And yes, at high ISO/sports all current sensors perform similarly. But many people mostly shoot at low ISO, using the full sensor potential. Remember: "paint with light" (each time the ISO doubles, the sensor is tuned to saturate with half the light).
Here we are. At high ISO ALL sensors in reality PERFORM DIFFERENT in case of noise and color rendering. Your statement shows that you never use high ISO.
Compared to two further stops in IQ at High ISO (for example ISO 6.400 to 25K) for those, who need it its a much bigger advantadge than 2 stops higher DR. Painting with light does not mean painting in base ISO, only. Nor does "full sensor potential" mean "highest possible DR. That is the point in this whole discussion that makes me helpless.
Where do you know from that "many people mostly shoot at low ISO" ? You might do, yes.
I still would shoot my excellent 30D if I would shoot at low ISO. DR was excellent enough for my needs. I switched to 5D II because of the better low light performance only. Up to 3600 it worked fine. But I came in permanent troubble at ISO 6400 (because banding started). That was the only cause, why I switched to 6D. Excellent banding free high ISO with acceptable noise up tu ISO 12K. NO other camera offered this 5 years ago. Not Nikon D700, D600/610 not Canons 5D III nor 1DX.
The success of 6D proofed that many photographers indeed shoot mostly at (much) higher ISO than you believe. This is the cause why a camera like 6D was so successfull and could be sold with (still today) top reviews over 5 years now, while top DR bodies have to be exchanged all 2-3 years.
6Ds -3EV center AV made it possible to shoot at ISO 25k using AF ant nailing the pic. Absolute impossible with 5D II, III or any earlier body. This is why I am sad, that Canon did not go further their own route and added -4EV to 6D II.
The last testresults seem to show, that 6D IIs ISO 12K and higher catches up with 5D IV and maybee 1DX II.
This is fantastic. And in my opinion much more important for most shooters than a 14 stops DR, that they will never use, need or see. For those who need 14 stops DR there is a great number of cameras "better" than 6D II already available.
Why must 6D II have it, too? And loose the advantadges it has, wich are very important for many (in my opinion most) shooters?
Painting with light does not only mean bright sunlight only. There is moon- and starlight, backlight, sidelight or the low light of a little fireplace, too. Things you can not shoot with or you would destroy by using a flashes. You would destroy it in many cases by pushing the dark areas, too.
Painting with light does not mean, that it is not allowed to paint with hard contrasts, too.
cgarcia wrote:
...
"Photography" means "paint with light". In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV.
Absolutely wrong. It depends, of what you need and want. Please let me explain after your next sentence, that was:
And yes, at high ISO/sports all current sensors perform similarly. But many people mostly shoot at low ISO, using the full sensor potential. Remember: "paint with light" (each time the ISO doubles, the sensor is tuned to saturate with half the light).
Here we are. At high ISO ALL sensors in reality PERFORM DIFFERENT in case of noise and color rendering. Your statement shows that you never use high ISO.
Compared to two further stops in IQ at High ISO (for example ISO 6.400 to 25K) for those, who need it its a much bigger advantadge than 2 stops higher DR. Painting with light does not mean painting in base ISO, only. Nor does "full sensor potential" mean "highest possible DR. That is the point in this whole discussion that makes me helpless.
Wher do you know from that "many people mostly shoot at low ISO" ? You might do, yes.
I still would shoot my excellent 30D if I would shoot at low ISO. DR was excellent enough for my needs. I switched to 5D II because of the better low light performance only. Up to 3600 it worked fine. But I came in permanent troubble at ISO 6400 (because banding started). That was the only cause, why I switched to 6D. Excellent banding free high ISO with acceptable noise up tu ISO 12K. NO other camera offered this 5 years ago. Not Nikon D700, D600/610 not Canons 5D III nor 1DX.
The success of 6D proofed that many photographers indeed shoot mostly at (much) higher ISO than you believe. This is the cause why a camera like 6D was so successfull and could be sold with (still today) top reviews over 5 years now, while top DR bodies have to be exchanged all 2-3 years.
6Ds -3EV center AV made it possible to shoot at ISO 25k using AF ant nailing the pic. Absolute impossible with 5D II, III or any earlier body. This is why I am sad, that Canon did not go further their own route and added -4EV to 6D II.
The last testresults seem to show, that 6D IIs ISO 12K and higher catches up with 5D IV and maybee 1DX II.
This is fantastic. And in my opinion much more important for most shooters than a 14 stops DR, that they will never use, need or see. For those who need 14 stops DR there is a great number of cameras "better" than 6D II already available.
Why must 6D II have it, too? And loose the advantadges it has, wich are very important for many (in my opinion most) shooters?
Painting with light does not only mean bright sunlight only. There is moon- and starlight, backlight, sidelight or the low light of a little fireplace, too. Things you can not shoot with or you would destroy by using a flashes. You would destroy it in many cases by pushing the dark areas, too.
Painting with light does not mean, that it is not allowed to paint with hard contrasts, too.
cgarcia wrote:
...
"Photography" means "paint with light". In no way a camera which can record a gradient of 14.5 EV of light will not be a much better tool compared to another recording a mere 12 EV.
Absolutely wrong. It depends, of what you need and want. Please let me explain after your next sentence, that was:
And yes, at high ISO/sports all current sensors perform similarly. But many people mostly shoot at low ISO, using the full sensor potential. Remember: "paint with light" (each time the ISO doubles, the sensor is tuned to saturate with half the light).
Here we are. At high ISO ALL sensors in reality PERFORM DIFFERENT in case of noise and color rendering. Your statement shows that you never use high ISO.
Compared to two further stops in IQ at High ISO (for example ISO 6.400 to 25K) for those, who need it its a much bigger advantadge than 2 stops higher DR. Painting with light does not mean painting in base ISO, only. Nor does "full sensor potential" mean "highest possible DR. That is the point in this whole discussion that makes me helpless.
Wher do you know from that "many people mostly shoot at low ISO" ? You might do, yes.
I still would shoot my excellent 30D if I would shoot at low ISO. DR was excellent enough for my needs. I switched to 5D II because of the better low light performance only. Up to 3600 it worked fine. But I came in permanent troubble at ISO 6400 (because banding started). That was the only cause, why I switched to 6D. Excellent banding free high ISO with acceptable noise up tu ISO 12K. NO other camera offered this 5 years ago. Not Nikon D700, D600/610 not Canons 5D III nor 1DX.
The success of 6D proofed that many photographers indeed shoot mostly at (much) higher ISO than you believe. This is the cause why a camera like 6D was so successfull and could be sold with (still today) top reviews over 5 years now, while top DR bodies have to be exchanged all 2-3 years.
6Ds -3EV center AV made it possible to shoot at ISO 25k using AF ant nailing the pic. Absolute impossible with 5D II, III or any earlier body. This is why I am sad, that Canon did not go further their own route and added -4EV to 6D II.
The last testresults seem to show, that 6D IIs ISO 12K and higher catches up with 5D IV and 1DX II.
This is fantastic. And in my opinion much more important for most shooters than a 14 stops DR, that they will never need. For those who need it there is a great number of cameras "better" than 6D II already available.
Why must 6D II have it, too? And loose the advantadges it has, wich are very important for many (in my opinion most) shooters?
Painting with light does not only mean bright sunlight. There is moon- and starlight, too. Backlight, sidelight or the low light of a little fireplace, too. Things you can not shoot with or you would destroy by using a flash. You would destroy it in many cases by pushing the dark areas, too.
Painting with light does not mean that it is not allowed to paint with hard contrasts, too.
Conny
Jul 24, 2017 at 07:36 PM
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