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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
  
 
JaimitoFrog
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p.16 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


howard wrote:
That's quite a ways from $2200!

wait a few more months when RIII is out. These things drop like flies, basically a cellphone life cycle.


Jul 01, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Blair Maynard
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p.16 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


howard wrote:
I did not know that. Where?

It was on ebay. It was clearly marked a gray market import. It seems to be gone now with the other gray market sellers selling at around $2,400.
Jul 02, 2017 at 12:45 AM
15Bit
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p.16 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Hmmmm, sounds like the FF + 4K video camera for $2,000 is a bit of a myth still.

So in essence everyone is complaining that Canon are not offering something at $2000 that no-one is offering at $2000? And lets remember that is the release price. By new year it will somewhat less, making the A7 to 6D2 comparisons even more lopsided.

I agree that it would be great for videographers if Canon could produce a 4K capable FF camera at this price segment, and undoubtedly they would sell like hot cakes. And i'm sure Canon knows this. So perhaps it is worth considering that there may be good reasons that no manufacturer is offering such a camera.
Jul 02, 2017 at 03:46 AM
George Orwell
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p.16 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


15Bit wrote:
So in essence everyone is complaining that Canon are not offering something at $2000 that no-one is offering at $2000? And lets remember that is the release price. By new year it will somewhat less, making the A7 to 6D2 comparisons even more lopsided.

I agree that it would be great for videographers if Canon could produce a 4K capable FF camera at this price segment, and undoubtedly they would sell like hot cakes. And i'm sure Canon knows this. So perhaps it is worth considering that there may be good reasons that no manufacturer is offering such a camera.

Gee....listening to the anti Canon crowd here I thought that everyone had 4k video at this price point. Turns out no one does.

I guess 4k video is not that important if no one is willing to pay for it!
Jul 02, 2017 at 04:29 AM
SoftImage
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p.16 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Blair Maynard wrote:
What if Canon put out two models of the 6D2 -- a $2,000 model with the current focus point spread, and a $2,100 model with the same coverage of the viewfinder as the 80D? And you had to buy one, which one would you buy?

This seems unrealistic because with the second option 6D II would have wide spread than 5D IV or 1D XII. In any case, if the difference is just 100 dollars I would go for the second option. Wider is better, but not a big deal.




Jul 02, 2017 at 05:04 AM
SoftImage
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p.16 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


ggreene wrote:
Agreed.

The sad thing is Canon is a very innovative company but they simply have an institutional conservatism that is holding them back. They have to get new tech out there quicker through the development cycle and they have to stop this insane fear of cannibalization. Every year that goes by with them releasing gear that looks outdated is influencing the hearts and minds of future camera gear buyers. If they aren't careful that is going to start degrading the Canon brand.

I think they still have time but it's running out quickly. The 1DX2/5D4/6D2 is probably the last go round...Show more →

We don't know, we are just guessing. What Canon is doing may not simply be 'institutional conservatism', it maybe the result of in depth market analysis. At the moment they are doing as good as or better than any other brand. We don't have yearly results for different regions, but look at Japan market.

https://photorumors.com/2017/01/16/2016-bcn-awards-in-japan-canon-wins-in-almost-all-categories/

Isn't it surprising that Canon is doing better than Sony in mirrorless and compact cameras, not just DSLRs? So, maybe we can be honest and say that we really don't know what Canon's short term and long term strategy is and not throw around funny comments like 'canon needs third party DSLRs'.


Jul 02, 2017 at 05:20 AM
scrappydog
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p.16 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


howard wrote:
I did not know that. Where?

Grey market on eBay. This deal is not always up, but it pops up a lot. Check out Sony Alpha Rumors or the FM > Sony boards for updates, if interested. I bought my A7R2 grey market on eBay for $2,500 over a year ago and it is working great. I've had it serviced with zero warranty issues.



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:04 AM
scrappydog
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p.16 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Kudos for presenting one that hits the criteria of FF + 4K video for the $2k range. Objective and true is respected and appreciated.

UPDATE: It seems that the A7s does NOT record 4K video, it only records HD video. Instead, it allows 4K video to be recorded using an output to an external 4K video recorder ... i.e. another piece of gear to buy, and to tote along with you. Thus, the ability to record 4K video is NOT achieved in a single camera with FF for $2,000. I still appreciate / respect the reference to the A7s, but it...Show more →

Yes, you can use an external recorder with the A7S, and yes, you will get 4K footage. Again, this is tech from 2014. You conveniently forgot to mention the A6500, which records in 4K, with built-in image stabilization for $1,300.

You argue you aren't a fanboy, but your comments strongly suggest otherwise. Your retort against the A7R2 is that Sony doesn't have big whites, even though the glass offered by Sony has ZERO bearing on the quality of the camera or its features. You only see features in the 6D2 as being current and up-to-date. What about IBIS? How about a non-laggy EVF or hybrid EVF? What about the 2 card slots? What about the pathetic optical AF system? My current AF system (in the A7R2) is so much more accurate than my Canon bodies have ever been. No more microadjustment!

I still own a Canon 7D2, 500/4 II, 100-400 II, 400/5.6, 24-70/2.8 II, 16-35 f/4, and 40/2.8 STM. I've shot both and I can tell you the Sony IQ is so much better. Since you brought up glass, I might also mention that I shoot Zeiss ZM glass on my mirrorless, and has a much different (and better, IMO) rendering than Canon glass.
Jul 02, 2017 at 06:16 AM
Ubtree
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p.16 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I have been waiting for the launch of the 6D MkII before deciding on a replacement for my 5D MkII.

When launched, the 5D seemed to have been designed with the landscape photographer in mind, but the introduction of video to the 5D MkII changed its nature, and the MkIV has more bells and whistles than I need. So for me, it could be that it would be sensible to move from the 5DMk II to a 6D MkII, rather than to a 5D MKIV.

I have therefore been comparing the detailed specifications of the 6D MkII and the 5D MkIV, and thought that others might find the comparison useful.

The results are as follows:

Sensor: 26.2 MP (vs. 30.4 MP)
(With pixels 12% larger, there is potential for wider dynamic range.)

Maximum ISO: 40,000 (vs. 32,000)

Maximum shutter speed: 1/4000 (vs. 1/8000)

X-sync speed: 1/180 sec (vs. 1/200 sec)

AF points: 45 (vs. 61), and confined to the central area of the image.

Exposure meter: 7,560 pixels (vs. 150,000)

Exposure control : Extended range of special scene modes

LCD monitor: 3.0 inch (vs. 3.2 inch)
.....................1.04 million pixels (vs. 1.62 million pixels)
.....................Articulating
.....................No anti-reflection coating

Shutter time lag between simultaneous SW-1/SW-2 ON and start of exposure: 250ms (vs. 130ms)

Additional drive mode: Self-timer: Continuous shooting (after 10-sec., 2 to 10 shots)

Shooting function settings shown in viewfinder:
Present 6D MkII, but absent on 5D MkIV: Grid / Aspect Ratio Line
Absent 6D MkII, but present on 6D MkII: Dual Pixel RAW setting / Digital Lens Optimizer / White balance / AF status indicator

Battery life: Approx. 30% longer

Start-up time: 0.2 sec (vs. 0.1 sec)

Dimensions: 5.93 x 4.58 x 2.99 in. / 150.7 x 116.4 x 75.9mm
vs. 5.67 x 4.35 x 2.94 in. / 144.0 x 110.5 x 74.8mm

Weight : 890g / 31.39 oz vs. 765g / 26.98 oz

Note: I have excluded the controversial video specifications, which have already been discussed at length.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other than surprise at how few differences there are, the key points for me are:

  1. The 6D obviously has a lower resolution, and I would be happy to accept 26 MP in exchange for increased dynamic range.
  2. The maximum ISO could be useful for early morning / late evening shots.
  3. I would rarely (if ever) need 1/8000 shutter speed.
  4. The number of AF points is reasonable, but their spread is disappointing. This is not a problem for landscape work, but poor for general use.
  5. The exposure meter pixel count and configuration is the same as that of the 80D, whereas the 5D MkIV has 4x the number of zones, and each zone has 4x the number of pixels. From my very limited knowledge, i understand that this has only a limited effect on the general accuracy of metering, but improves the performance of more advanced functions such as scene recognition, face recognition, focus tracking. Exposure control is less critical for me, since I check the histogram on most exposures as soon as I have made them.
  6. The articulating screen is a very big plus point (for taking macro shots of plants, etc. when out in the landscape). It is surprising that Canon did not apply a non-reflective coating ( - once could say, a glaring omission!), but this can be addressed by using a screen protector).
  7. Reduced weight is always welcome, but a 10% reduction in the camera/lens combination (and a 3% reduction in the total pack weight that I would be carrying) will not sway my purchasing decision.

At the end of the day, I think that the dynamic range will be the deciding factor for me, and so I’ll be waiting until that information becomes available before making a decision.

Edited on Jul 04, 2017 at 05:29 AM · View previous versions
Jul 02, 2017 at 06:21 AM
rek101
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p.16 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




What if Canon put out two models of the 6D2 -- a $2,000 model with the current focus point spread, and a $2,100 model with the same coverage of the viewfinder as the 80D? And you had to buy one, which one would you buy?

I' d definitely pay the money for the wider spread...maybe $200. I had the original 6D and got very frustrated with its autofocus system and tried the Nikon 750 which had way better autofocus but about the same spread as the 6D and I liked it. I didn't find a narrow focus spread that limiting, but I liked having a much higher keeper rate with better autofocus. So I'd say the coverage is a nice to have, but knowing the autofocus system is reliable with moving subjects is what matters more. When I ended up getting the 5d Mark III recently (annoyed that I didn't wait for this) I did like having a bit more coverage and I take advantage of it...but I think it's the quality of that cluster of focus points in the middle that matters more than how wide they are spread. Not to mention, even though they are spread a bit wider on the 5D mark IV or the 5D mark III, the focus points on all these cameras are still pretty cramped.



Edited on Jul 02, 2017 at 06:41 AM · View previous versions
Jul 02, 2017 at 06:40 AM
15Bit
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p.16 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


scrappydog wrote:
You conveniently forgot to mention the A6500, which records in 4K, with built-in image stabilization for $1,300.

Is the A6500 full format? I thought it was a crop.




Jul 02, 2017 at 06:40 AM
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p.16 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


rek101 wrote:
What if Canon put out two models of the 6D2 -- a $2,000 model with the current focus point spread, and a $2,100 model with the same coverage of the viewfinder as the 80D? And you had to buy one, which one would you buy?

I would pay the extra. But, sadly, we can't pick-and-mix cameras. Different people would pay that bit extra for the different enhancements that they particularly need. To get a no-compromise (or, at least, less compromised) camera, we just have to dig deeper and go for a model such as the 5D MkIV.

That said, you have to wonder whether Canon has put an AF system designed for an APS-C camera into an FF camera - and IMHO that is not the sort of cut that they should be making.
Jul 02, 2017 at 07:03 AM
MayaTlab
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p.16 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


rek101 wrote:
What if Canon put out two models of the 6D2 -- a $2,000 model with the current focus point spread, and a $2,100 model with the same coverage of the viewfinder as the 80D? And you had to buy one, which one would you buy?


What irks me with some of Canon's decisions is that it isn't about manufacturing cost, or real, tangible difficulties or trade-offs. If I apply your question to, let's say, the front Fn button, here it goes :

"What if Canon put out two models of the 6D2 -- a $2,000 model with the current front Fn button, and a $2,000 model with the same front Fn button as the 5D or 7D series ? And you had to buy one, which one would you buy?

Yep, that's right : no difference in price. Because properly designing that front Fn button won't cost Canon more (it still needs a flex - actually it might be even easier to design that flex with the 5D/7D design - and a button mechanism). You could in fact argue that the current 6D button needlessly adds to the 6D manufacturing cost, because it's so poorly located that much fewer people actually use it on a frequent basis than the 5D/7D's one, so a lot of people are paying for a button that they will nearly never use : the cost/added value ratio is worse.



Jul 02, 2017 at 07:59 AM
RustyBug
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p.16 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


15Bit wrote:
So in essence everyone is complaining that Canon are not offering something at $2000 that no-one is offering at $2000? And lets remember that is the release price. By new year it will somewhat less, making the A7 to 6D2 comparisons even more lopsided.

I agree that it would be great for videographers if Canon could produce a 4K capable FF camera at this price segment, and undoubtedly they would sell like hot cakes. And i'm sure Canon knows this. So perhaps it is worth considering that there may be good reasons that no manufacturer is offering such a camera.

+1 ... new model release price vs. previous model pricing. If you go previous model to previous model, then it is the 6D vs. A7s and looks more like $1300 vs. $2,000 ... both FF, neither capable of internal recording @ 4K, 20MP vs. 12MP.

In the case of the 6D, you'd have to have a second piece of gear to get 4K recording.
In the case of the A7s, you'd have to have a second piece of gear to get 4K recording.

The difference being in which "second piece of gear" you could use to achieve 4K recording ... and of course, then there's the whole lenses, adapters, camera stuff in general variance(s) that are already well noted.

Horses for courses. Pick your course, then pick your horse. Most folks don't plow fields with a trotter, nor run the Derby with a Clydesdale.


Jul 02, 2017 at 08:13 AM
Blair Maynard
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p.16 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Ubtree wrote:
But why, oh why, has Canon not applied a non-reflective coating? This is a glaring omission! Before buying a 6D, I would want to be sure that this did not present too great a problem. (The term “nerfing” has been used by many detractors of the 6 MkII; omitting a non-reflective coating, which surely would cost only a few cents, seems to me the one area where the term might be justified.) Is it possible to retro-spray a touch-screen with a non-reflective coating?
  • Reduced weight is always welcome, but a 10% reduction in the camera/lens combination (and a 3% reduction...Show more →

    I think a lot of us put a screen protector on the back lcd anyway and that seemed to add glare guard to my 6D (which means I cant use it with my polarized sun glasses which is really not a problem as I dont take photos with glasses on anyway).
    Yes, the DR is the remaining massive question at this point. Early indications are only that the DR is not as good as the 5D4, FWIW.


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    Jul 02, 2017 at 08:25 AM
    RustyBug
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    p.16 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


    SoftImage wrote:

    it maybe the result of in depth market analysis.

    Imo, that's the BINGO !!! ... recalling that the purpose of the camera is to be the stepping stone entry to FF, the masses that have shot non-FF (i.e. crop / P&S shooters) are looking for a reason to step up to FF. Is this the camera for 7D2 shooters(dual slots, CF, 1/250 sync, etc.) to move into FF ... nah, that's the 5D or 1D series.

    Flippy screen is something that the market of non-FF shooters has become accustomed to. GPS, NFC etc. are part of the puzzle also for current non-FF shooters. The facts are that the days of the 'Baby Boomers' driving the market ... well, that's gonna start taking a curve toward the Millenial's and they likely see THAT market as being a larger market than the 4K videographer market.

    So, which features do you include to stay under the $2K price point ... becomes a strategy of pick & choose. They simply chose to NOT include 4K video, because it doesn't hit the bell curve of features that folks really want when when making the step up from non-FF to FF. Keeping in mind, the main thing is the main thing = FF stills (IQ & UWA), otherwise just keep shooting non-FF and spend your $2k on something else.
    Jul 02, 2017 at 08:33 AM
    RustyBug
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    p.16 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




    You argue you aren't a fanboy, but your comments strongly suggest otherwise. Your retort against the A7R2 is that Sony doesn't have big whites, even though the glass offered by Sony has ZERO bearing on the quality of the camera or its features. You only see features in the 6D2 as being current and up-to-date. What about IBIS? How about a non-laggy EVF or hybrid EVF? What about the 2 card slots? What about the pathetic optical AF system? My current AF system (in the A7R2) is so much more accurate than my Canon bodies have ever been. No more microadjustment!    ...Show more →

    You're starting to sound like Chez, trying to tell me what I should like. Obviously you're not familiar with me yet ... which is fine. On paper, you can speak spec all day long ... but the most simplistic thing I can say is that the Sony mirrorless cameras have terrible ergonomics that DON'T FIT MY HAND WORTH A DARN. And, before you continue to be another Chez, trying to tell me things you don't know anything about ... I actually still own the Sony grip for using the A7R series. Point being, I looked very, very diligently at the Sony system over a period of a few years. I'm not going down the Sony rabbit hole all over again ... been there, done that, still got the grip.

    And, as to you trying to condescendingly preach the Zeiss glass thing (which has ZERO bearing on the FF + 4K conversation) ... you have no way of knowing how much Zeiss glass I own (hint, it's more than you can count on one hand).

    But, as I mentioned before ... this isn't intended to be a Sony vs. Canon discussion (too many other times & places). This is about the "insane" allegation that was waged against the 6D2 over the issue of 4K video.

    FF + 4K video for $2,000 ... still looking for it. You're still welcome to try again. The A7s was a "nice try", but we still haven't found the alleged evidence that validates / verifies that allegation that Canon is "insane" for having FF @ $2,000 without 4K video.
    Jul 02, 2017 at 08:47 AM
    RustyBug
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    p.16 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


    Ubtree wrote:
    I have been waiting for the launch of the 6D MkII before deciding on a replacement for my 5D MkII.

    When launched, the 5D seemed to have been designed with the landscape photographer in mind, but the introduction of video to the 5D MkII changed its nature, and the MkIV has more bells and whistles than I need. So for me, it could be that it would be sensible to move from the 5DMk II to a 6D MkII, rather than to a 5D MKIV.

    I have therefore been comparing the detailed specifications of the 6D MkII and the 5D MkIV, and    ...Show more →



    Very well presented. That is a very fair (and seemingly accurate) assessment of what the 6D II brings to the table (I'm thinking a "protective screen" will take care of the reflectivity issue). Nice job on presenting where it matters vs. matters not (from your perspective, of course). I'd basically say that this is pretty "spot on" for those who are truly trying to understand what the 6D2 may mean / not mean for them. Except you forgot to mention it does NOT have 4K video.

    +1 @ the DR / IQ is the thing we have to watch for ... but, I see little reason for it be anything other than somewhere between the 5D4 and the 1DX2. For me (which I've already pre-ordered), it'll be the matter of whether they moved the base ISO lower (like the 80D) or left it a bit higher. Base ISO won't be a deal breaker either way (ummm, FF + articulating display), but my preference will be for the lower base ISO.

    Again, very nicely presented in excellent FM'er style.



    Jul 02, 2017 at 09:03 AM
    Charlie N
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    p.16 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




    You're starting to sound like Chez, trying to tell me what I should like. Obviously you're not familiar with me yet ... which is fine. On paper, you can speak spec all day long ... but the most simplistic thing I can say is that the Sony mirrorless cameras have terrible ergonomics that DON'T FIT MY HAND WORTH A DARN. And, before you continue to be another Chez, trying to tell me things you don't know anything about ... I actually still own the Sony grip for using the A7R series. Point being, I looked very, very diligently at the Sony    ...Show more →
    this is very short sighted IMO

    the life cycle of the 6dii is 4-5 years, that can mean up to 2021, and by the end of this year, you're claim of no equal may be gone already, and then you're left just sucking it up for the next 4-5 years.

    A7sii/A7rii is approaching the 2K mark, 2200 gray market, under 2000 may happen by christmas. Not optimal or a fair comparison, but practical. You have to remember that the 4K offered to canon is below the level of the sony A6300 for initial entry fee. So a current 6D shooter can simply add that camera to their lineup and be done with it.
    Jul 02, 2017 at 09:04 AM
    RustyBug
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    p.16 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


    Charlie N wrote:
    So a current 6D shooter can simply add that camera to their lineup and be done with it.



    And, then you have a "backup" (albeit crop) camera to boot. this is the most pragmatic solution for the money I've heard yet ... even if not confined within only a single piece of equipment, which neither is the A7s approach.

    But, for those who aren't 4K video requirement folks ... I'm going 6D2 + 80D for my FF + Crop approach.
    Jul 02, 2017 at 09:21 AM
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