p.15 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PetKal wrote:
All in all, this new dSLR release does nothing to change my long standing view of Canon: the EOS system has excellent lenses, probably second to none, but it is in need of third party dSLRs, because Canon camera offerings lag behind the times, and they represent a very poor value for my money.
Agreed.
The sad thing is Canon is a very innovative company but they simply have an institutional conservatism that is holding them back. They have to get new tech out there quicker through the development cycle and they have to stop this insane fear of cannibalization. Every year that goes by with them releasing gear that looks outdated is influencing the hearts and minds of future camera gear buyers. If they aren't careful that is going to start degrading the Canon brand.
I think they still have time but it's running out quickly. The 1DX2/5D4/6D2 is probably the last go round where they can get away with minor upgrades.
p.15 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
tjevans wrote:
Hello, all. First time poster here.
First, I want to say how impressed I am with the discussion here compared to other sites. Sue, there are disagreements, but people seem to be much more respectful of differing opinions here. Now on to the subject of this thread.
I currently have a Rebel T4i. I pre-ordere the 6DII. Now I guess I'm having some second thoughts. What concerns me the most--and something I did not see discussed here (although Imonly read the first 7 pages)--is the area occupied by the AF points doesn't seem to be that much larger than my T4i.
So, all of you more experienced photographers, am I thinking that's a bigger deal than it is?...Show more →
I wouldn't pay any attention to the naysayers here if you are looking to upgrade from the T4i to this new offering.. The 6D Mk II will probably be a VERY GOOD camera, and I say that tongue in cheek as the camera is not out yet. Based on Canon's reputation for improved camera bodies, they hardly ever disappoint, as a rule. As a former 6D owner, I can honestly say that it is a very good camera with very, very good image quality. This new iteration will, no doubt, be better, in a number of ways. The inclusion of the all cross type focus points is a HUGE upgrade, albeit a bit more cramped than would be optimally implemented.
I went from a 80D to the 6D, and I was skeptical of the allure of the full frame vs the APS-C format cameras. The 6D didn't disappoint, so much so, that I have pre-ordered the 6D Mk II. I have kept my 80D however and am selling the 6D. I would stay with the pre-order, as you are in for a real treat here. That's just my personal opinion and observation, but I doubt many people, if anyone would say they expect this camera to be a "dud". Good luck with your choice.
p.15 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
George Orwell wrote:
Yes, exactly. The idea that this Canon 6D II somehow is unable to make astonishing images is amusing. In the right hands, I have seen images to die for from such horrible cameras as the Canon 6D, 5DII, and 5D3.
People contine to say how so many features missing from the 6DII are critical. Yet they are unwilling to pay for them!!
Astonishing.
I find it astonishing that people here are making up "attacks" (sort of like fake news) and then self righteously defending from those invented "attacks". Who expressed the idea that this 6DII wasnt able to make astonishing images?
p.15 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
artsupreme wrote:
1DXII....snoozer
5DIV....snoozer
6DII.....I'm waiting for the April fools announcement....but it's not April.
Now I'm wondering if the 5DV will be enough to upgrade?
Good thing Canon has excellent glass.
---------------------------------------------
I'm thinking that is about the only thing saving Canon at this point (and their pro-series bodies)
There are so many people invested in their glass they are still buying these bodies that are already outdated at release.
The Canon execs must live in a vacuum.
One card slot?? USB 2.0? and we won't see an update till probably 2021? wow.....
Jul 01, 2017 at 05:59 PM
George Orwell Offline • • [X]
p.15 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
ggreene wrote:
Agreed.
The sad thing is Canon is a very innovative company but they simply have an institutional conservatism that is holding them back.
Giving away features free of charge is not "innovation".
Canon has all the features people are clamoring for. They just dont want to pay for them.
p.15 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PetKal wrote:
I kid you not about all this: I have started looking at A7R, and thinking of what the Mk III might bring to the EF table.
Now, June 27th-July 2nd, we have car races in town. The A7s is THE video camera of choice mounted in DJI Ronins. But you know what? They all* have Canon glass mounted - from 16-35 f2.8L II to the ever-popular 70-200 f4L IS and f2.8L IS II.
*I am yet to see FE glass in use by videographers. It's either Canon or Sigma glass.
p.15 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Paul Mo wrote:
Now, June 27th-July 2nd, we have car races in town. The A7s is THE video camera of choice mounted in DJI Ronins. But you know what? They all* have Canon glass mounted - from 16-35 f2.8L II to the ever-popular 70-200 f4L IS and f2.8L IS II.
*I am yet to see FE glass in use by videographers. It's either Canon or Sigma glass.
There you go.....Canon lens production group is a different world from their Camera division.
Their top lenses cost big $$, but they work flawlessly, and they maintain the top position in the world's photography equipment. The lens group has not been afraid to innovate and lead, and yet there are no compromises in the performance and quality of the EF lenses supplied. At least, that has been the case until now.
p.15 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PetKal wrote:
All in all, this new dSLR release does nothing to change my long standing view of Canon: the EOS system has excellent lenses, probably second to none, but it is in need of third party dSLRs, because Canon camera offerings lag behind the times, and they represent a very poor value for my money.
RustyBug wrote:
You mean "poor value" as in their cameras somehow degrade your ability to produce images that many folks around here are overwhelmed by (left-handed compliment).
George Orwell wrote:
Yes, exactly. The idea that this Canon 6D II somehow is unable to make astonishing images is amusing. In the right hands, I have seen images to die for from such horrible cameras as the Canon 6D, 5DII, and 5D3.
People contine to say how so many features missing from the 6DII are critical. Yet they are unwilling to pay for them!!
Astonishing.
milkod2001 wrote:
I see some did not get the point. It is not that 6D2 will be bad camera and in the right hands bla bla bla. It is about the missing features like 4k video, dual card slots in 2017 new camera seems quite pathetic. Cheaper cameras have that. The only excuse Canon has, it wants $1000 extra for that...go figure
Then perhaps buy the cheaper camera and stop complaining the Canon is too expensive?
I have no use for video 4K or 5K or any at all, so the DSLR makes sense. If the camera is a failure in the marketplace, then the prices will naturally decrease.
p.15 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
scrappydog wrote:
The A7S came out in 2014, it is FF, it has 4K video, can shoot in the dark, and costs $2K or less.
Kudos for presenting one that hits the criteria of FF + 4K video for the $2k range. Objective and true is respected and appreciated.
UPDATE: It seems that the A7s does NOT record 4K video, it only records HD video. Instead, it allows 4K video to be recorded using an output to an external 4K video recorder ... i.e. another piece of gear to buy, and to tote along with you. Thus, the ability to record 4K video is NOT achieved in a single camera with FF for $2,000. I still appreciate / respect the reference to the A7s, but it turns out that the marketing perspective is a bit overzealous compared to the actual capability of the camera (no foul on scrappydog, though).
One little caveat though that some folks might consider a double standard though.
So while folks are clamoring that HD video isn't future oriented, and that anything less than 4K is "insane" etc. ... umm, the A7S is running quite a few pixels short (I understand why) of contemporary standards of MP, and certainly if the "must be future oriented", the A7S @ 12MP ... well, to be honest, that is LESS than my 2004 Kodak SLR/C has @ 14MP. Someone "could argue" that this is "insane" or not "future oriented". That said ... I won't, but I will state that it is targeted for not general use by current / future standards.
On that note ... I will re-iterate to meeting the objective (with no specification on the FF aspect @ MP).
So, for the same money $2K, folks can choose between the 6D2 without 4K vs. the A7s with only 12 MP and no articulating display, 5 fps and battery life 1/3 that of the 6D2. Obviously, there are a few other diff's between these two cameras that for some will find objectoinable in either direction. The point being, that for $2K ... ummm, you can't get everything, from anyone, anywhere ... at least not in 2017.
Again, Kudos for bringing up the A7s. (See Update Above)
p.15 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
ggreene wrote:
Agreed.
The sad thing is Canon is a very innovative company but they simply have an institutional conservatism that is holding them back. They have to get new tech out there quicker through the development cycle and they have to stop this insane fear of cannibalization. Every year that goes by with them releasing gear that looks outdated is influencing the hearts and minds of future camera gear buyers. If they aren't careful that is going to start degrading the Canon brand.
I think they still have time but it's running out quickly. The 1DX2/5D4/6D2 is probably the last go round where they can get away with minor upgrades.
And we could probably go back through the archives here in FM for the last 10 years (or longer) and hear the same position presented about the 5D2 or the 1D3 or 1D4 or the 50D or
And fast-forward 10 years from now, and I bet there'll be folks saying the same thing still.
Jul 01, 2017 at 09:21 PM
Everythingis1 Offline • • [X]
p.15 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
Kudos for presenting one that hits the criteria of FF + 4K video for the $2k range. Objective and true is respected and appreciated.
One little caveat though that some folks might consider a double standard though.
So while folks are clamoring that HD video isn't future oriented, and that anything less than 4K is "insane" etc. ... umm, the A7S is running quite a few pixels short (I understand why) of contemporary standards of MP, and certainly if the "must be future oriented", the A7S @ 12MP ... well, to be honest, that is LESS than my 2004 Kodak SLR/C has @ 14MP. Someone "could argue" that this is "insane" or not "future oriented". That said ... I won't, but I will state that it is targeted for not general use by current / future standards.
On that note ... I will re-iterate to meeting the objective (with no specification on the FF aspect @ MP).
So, for the same money $2K, folks can choose between the 6D2 without 4K vs. the A7s with only 12 MP and no articulating display, 5 fps and battery life 1/3 that of the 6D2. Obviously, there are a few other diff's between these two cameras that for some will find objectoinable in either direction. The point being, that for $2K ... ummm, you can't get everything, from anyone, anywhere ... at least not in 2017.
You know a brand new A7RII is only $2200 right? And that it's 4k picture quality is way better than the 5D IV right? And you know you can use it's eye-AF even with Canon lenses right? And it has way better stills picture quality right? And you know it has much larger AF coverage right? It's painfully obvious that you would defend this camera, basically no matter how crappy it was (not that it is crappy). The real question is, why would someone not be seriously considering Sony if this was their only option in this price range from Canon? I guess if they have one lens in particular that they are dependent on that doesn't have a Sony equivalent of... well I guess you could just use that lens on a Sony.
I mean based on your arguments, who needs better picture quality than the origina 6D anyways? I mean, everyone is just looking at these pics on their phones anyways right?
p.15 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
If my 5D dies, this camera will replace it. I'm very glad they improved the auto-focus, because that's the main category in which, I feel, my 5D is lacking.
p.15 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Everythingis1 wrote:
You know a brand new A7RII is only $2200 right? And that it's 4k picture quality is way better than the 5D IV right? And you know you can use it's eye-AF even with Canon lenses right? And it has way better stills picture quality right? And you know it has much larger AF coverage right? It's painfully obvious that you would defend this camera, basically no matter how crappy it was (not that it is crappy). The real question is, why would someone not be seriously considering Sony if this was their only option in this price range from Canon? I guess if they have one lens in particular that they are dependent on that doesn't have a Sony equivalent of... well I guess you could just use that lens on a Sony....Show more →
Sony is really crap for ergonomics, the viewfinder is literally nauseating and has delay, battery life is horrible, especially for waiting on a subject, they have no teles to speak of, and so forth. I've been there and done that, and I'm sure many others also prefer the Canon system to Sony.
p.15 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Everythingis1 wrote:
You know a brand new A7RII is only $2200 right? And that it's 4k picture quality is way better than the 5D IV right? And you know you can use it's eye-AF even with Canon lenses right? And it has way better stills picture quality right? And you know it has much larger AF coverage right? It's painfully obvious that you would defend this camera, basically no matter how crappy it was (not that it is crappy). The real question is, why would someone not be seriously considering Sony if this was their only option in this price range from Canon? I guess if they have one lens in particular that they are dependent on that doesn't have a Sony equivalent of... well I guess you could just use that lens on a Sony.
I mean based on your arguments, who needs better picture quality than the origina 6D anyways? I mean, everyone is just looking at these pics on their phones anyways right?...Show more →
The crux of this dialogue was predicated upon those calling it "insane" for the 6D2 to not include 4K video. I was merely presenting that the prospect of such a decision to not include 4K video is anything but "insane" .. it was a decision. Here's the thing ... I could go around saying it is "insane" that Sony has a battery life of 1/3 that of the 6D2 .. why in 2017 when battery technology clearly affords better battery options than Sony put in their camera ... therefore (according to others arguments against the 6D2 @ 4K video), it is "insane" for Sony to use batteries that have such abysmal battery life. Their ergonomics are pretty rough too ... especially given that Sony already had really good ergonomics in the A series. bodies. This shouldn't become a Sony vs. Canon thing ... far too many of those to re-has it yet again, but if you truly want to know why I don't shoot an A7R II ... it's all been hashed out in the archives.
Yet ... I'm not going into the Sony Forum and decrying against Sony for making their decisions, such as they have done. Meanwhile, folks feel compelled to call it "insane" for Canon to make their decisions such as they do. All I'm saying is that it is not "insane" that Canon left out 4K video ... it was an engineering / marketing decision. The same as all mfr's, with all models. You don't like Canon's direction ... go buy something else ... no blood, no foul.
That said, I'm not a "Canon can do no wrong." fan-boy. I just understand that an entry level FF, targeted enthusiasts is NOT going to have everything, everybody wants. Imo, that's realism. Sony doesn't make a camera that has everything I want, Nikon doesn't, Pentax doesn't, Panasonic doesn't, Fui doesn't ... and neither does Canon. I'm just glad to see that they moved the 6D in a direction that is more to my liking. AF @ f8, Articulating display, new sensor with large pixels (compared to 5D4 / 5DsR / 80D) ... enough for me to cease waiting for a different FF camera to come along (although a 5D4 with articulating display would have caught my attention, too).
Anyway, thanks again for reminding folks of the A7s ... but, it would be nice if folks would please forego the "insane" mantra ... the sensational hyperbole probably isn't needed to foster a prudent dialogue of merit. There are plenty of forums other than FM that we can go to get such cyber-sensationalism. I'd like to think that most FM'ers would prefer FM to give that a wider berth.
Does Sony make a FF + 4K video ... so it seems. Does that make their camera desirable for me ... not in the least (ergonomics, battery life, etc.). But, I'm going around saying that Sony is "insane" for not doing what I would like them to do.
p.15 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
The A7s II is $2,600 and the A7s is $2,000.
Interesting note in reading the description about the 4K video on the A7s ... ummm, it does NOT record 4K video internally, only HD. In order to record 4K video, it needs an external recorder.
Hmmmm, sounds like the FF + 4K video camera for $2,000 is a bit of a myth still. I'm not a video guy these days (long, long ago @ Beta / VHS), but that sounds like having to buy another piece of equipment ( $$$ for an external 4K recorder) to actually achieve the 4K objective ... which then takes the A7s out of the $2,000 range also ... and means you're toting two pieces of gear, instead of one, self-contained camera.
From the A7R II description: the a7R II is the first full-frame camera to offer internal UHD 4K video recording at 30 or 24 fps
Kinda takes us back on the hunt for the elusive FF + 4K video for $2,000.
to meeting the objective (with no specification on the FF aspect @ MP).
