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Archive 2016 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

artur5
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

To be honest, after seeing your latest tests with the UT filter, I was thinking 'for heavens sake man, get yourself a Color Checker Passport or similar and make a decent profile' .
It seems that you read my thoughts.

On a side note, browsing Kolaris web yesterday, I read pleasant news for European customers. They offer now a free duty service through a new partner in Europe, where you can send your cameras for conversion without having to pay VAT or Customs fees when the camera is sent back to you.
What it isn't clear is if the European partner does the conversions by themselves or the cameras are sent overseas to Kolari, and returned the same way to the partner. It shouldn't matter much, only for having shorter delivery times.

Mar 04, 2017 at 09:20 AM

MAubrey
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

A thin sensor conversion was in my plans for this coming spring. When I first made the decision, Kolari v2 seemed like the best/only option.

Now though, I'm wondering if I should:

(1) Wait until the UT conversion is ready?

(2) Contact the Master in Taiwan?

Opinions or advice?

Mar 05, 2017 at 10:42 AM

artur5
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Just my five cents :
If I were in the USA, to me the Kolari mod seems the way to go. Maybe not for technical reasons, but for convenience. Transparent and easy feedback, shorter delivery times. not having to send the camera abroad, probably cheaper when you include shipping costs... For non Chinese speakers, ordering from the Taiwan master seems rather complicate. How to be sure what to order and how, etc.. Using automated translations, often inaccurate and misleading, isn't my idea of a pleasant deal. Of course if you have family/friends fluent in Chinese who can help you, that would make a big difference.

Mar 05, 2017 at 12:20 PM

sebboh
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

i just got my camera back from kolari yesterday with the new ultra thin conversion. unfortunately, it's been pouring rain the entire time so i haven't gotten to do much with it.

Mar 10, 2017 at 04:40 AM

Phillip Reeve
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

sebboh wrote:
i just got my camera back from kolari yesterday with the new ultra thin v4 conversion. unfortunately, it's been pouring rain the entire time so i haven't gotten to do much with it.

couple of random shots in the rain and terrible light with the contax g 21:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2904/32972671780_95c4d8cfae_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2845/33355309215_4ae3db4f34_o.jpg
and a comparison of the zm 35/1.4 and cv 35/1.7 on the stock sensor vs the new ultra thin conversion:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/624/33355308885_1edf1bf722_o.jpg
full sized here

another big thanks to nehemiah for lending me the lenses to test.
Thanks a lot!
That is a mighty fine performance from the CV there. I was close to buying a front filter for it but those results make me at least think about modifying my old a7 instead. The results would be better, I could use a helicoid adapter and I would have access to a wide range of rangefinder lenses.

Look forward to further results.

Mar 10, 2017 at 06:12 AM

artur5
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Yes, those results are encouraging. Thanks a lot for the tests, sebboh.
While the Front filter system is surely cheaper than a Kolari mod for converting one or two lenses, if you have half a dozen of them ( requiring each one a different filter ) then it’s not so convenient anymore. These PCX elements are rather expensive.
Right now, I’m torn between ordering a v4 thin mod or a naked conversion. The later implies removing all filters except the glass glued to the sensor. On the plus side, it’s 0.2mm. thinner than the v4 mod (a tad better for RF wides) and you have a versatile camera able to shoot UV, IR or visible light just swapping a filter on the lens.
Drawbacks are, of course, the mandatory use of a hot mirror filter on the lens for normal photography (added cost, more prone to flare/ghosting). Also, extra care when cleaning the sensor. If you scratch that last glass, the whole sensor needs to be replaced. Finally, it requires a custom profile for dealing with the excess of UV, although I expect that the v4 mod needs also a customized WB for getting the best colors.

Mar 10, 2017 at 08:00 AM

HaruhikoT
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

sebboh wrote:
i just got my camera back from kolari yesterday with the new ultra thin v4 conversion. unfortunately, it's been pouring rain the entire time so i haven't gotten to do much with it.

Very interesting. Thank you!

Mar 10, 2017 at 08:05 AM

mcbroomf
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Phillip Reeve wrote:
Thanks a lot!
That is a mighty fine performance from the CV there. I was close to buying a front filter for it but those results make me at least think about modifying my old a7 instead. The results would be better, I could use a helicoid adapter and I would have access to a wide range of rangefinder lenses.

Look forward to further results.

+1 Thanks Derek!

... and thanks to Charlie for bringing this mod to light

Mar 10, 2017 at 08:31 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

sebboh wrote:
i just got my camera back from kolari yesterday with the new ultra thin v4 conversion. unfortunately, it's been pouring rain the entire time so i haven't gotten to do much with it.

couple of random shots in the rain and terrible light with the contax g 21:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2904/32972671780_95c4d8cfae_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2845/33355309215_4ae3db4f34_o.jpg
and a comparison of the zm 35/1.4 and cv 35/1.7 on the stock sensor vs the new ultra thin conversion:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/624/33355308885_1edf1bf722_o.jpg
full sized here

another big thanks to nehemiah for lending me the lenses to test.

Those are some excellent results, Derek. It will be interesting what kit you put together, but it seems that the Contax G 21, CV 35 f/1.7, and Contax G 45, will be a pretty great start.

Mar 10, 2017 at 08:48 AM

mcbroomf
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

I would love to know the impact this mod has on some excellent wide e-mount lenses; eg 21mm Loxia, 18 and 25mm Batis and the newest 10,12,15mm VC. This would help understand if it's possible to mix and match.

Mar 10, 2017 at 09:21 AM

sebboh
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

mcbroomf wrote:
I would love to know the impact this mod has on some excellent wide e-mount lenses; eg 21mm Loxia, 18 and 25mm Batis and the newest 10,12,15mm VC. This would help understand if it's possible to mix and match.

nehemiah lent me his FE 16-35/4 for the weekend, so i'll do a comparison of that between stock and kolari UT sensors. i'm afraid that's the only thing available to me now.

regarding color on the ultra thin conversion, i haven't seen any IR contamination yet, but i haven't done any testing. my daughter's black cloths look fine (zm 35/1.4):
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3852/33379856985_ff7633ef23_o.jpg
note: this my standard portrait processing which yellows things a bit.

colors look perfectly useable to me with a quick WB correction. if i subtract 2000K from temperature and 42 from the tint value i get with the stock a7 the colors look pretty close to identical.

Edited on Mar 12, 2017 at 11:06 PM · View previous versions

Mar 11, 2017 at 12:41 PM

uhoh7
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Derek,

What a relief to have some help here

Love the shot.

mcbroomf wrote:
I would love to know the impact this mod has on some excellent wide e-mount lenses; eg 21mm Loxia, 18 and 25mm Batis and the newest 10,12,15mm VC. This would help understand if it's possible to mix and match.

The VC should be better if they are M. But, I would think hard about the mod if you are using 18/21/25 FE, honestly. Derek and I are loyal to our community before all else, when it comes to photography. I don't like "salesmen", and my greatest fear is accidentally becoming one, even for somebody as helpful and honest as Illija and Kolari. I do believe in sharing new choices which could be great ones for some of us.

Kasson already showed the v2 mod affects native glass. You could study his blog.
FE 35/2.8 stock vs Kolari

Now maybe it's not so huge, you are right, we should really test. But why use those lenses when you will have great small options like SEM 18, ZM21/2.8 and numerous M 28s.? While the SEM18 is about 1800, the whole lens set would be cheaper than the FE. Now, I'm not trying to say this is "better", just that the logical paths are FE "all the way" or M "all the way". Fred thinks the FE at 21 is basically unbeatable even with a mod, and the SEM 21. I'm not so sure, but for sure the FE is very good.

A snap UT with SEM21:

UT_SEM21 by unoh7, on Flickr

Of course you can't really tell anything there. The great battle would be the SEM 18 vs the new FE 18, as that SEM is fantastic even on the V2 mod.

I can see the dilemma as I've lived it

More sensible might be to just grab a clean used A7 for 600 and mod it for your M/LTM.

Or as Fred does, mod the M wide lens so you can use it on the stock body, using external filters.

Edited on Mar 11, 2017 at 06:32 PM · View previous versions

Mar 11, 2017 at 04:46 PM

sebboh
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

uhoh7 wrote:
Derek,

What a relief to have some help here

Love the shot.

I would forget the mod if you are using those lenses, honestly. Derek and I are loyal to our community before all else, when it comes to photography. I don't like "salesmen", and my greatest fear is accidentally becoming one, even for somebody as helpful and honest as Illija and Kolari.

Kasson already showed the mod affects native glass without any doubt. More sensible would be to just grab a clean used A7 for 600 and mod it for your M/LTM.

Or as Fred does, mod the M wide...Show more →

+1

just had a look at the files, degradation at 16mm in very noticeable with FE 16-35mm on the kolari v4 a7 compared to the stock a7. will post a comparison when i get a chance.

Mar 11, 2017 at 04:53 PM

sebboh
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

here's a comparison of the FE 16-35/4 at 16mm on the stock a7 vs the kolari UT:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/33228889222_862084d5d0_o.jpg

Edited on Mar 12, 2017 at 11:07 PM · View previous versions

Mar 11, 2017 at 05:44 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Well that is pretty clear that v4 of the Kolari mod does not play well with that lens.

Mar 11, 2017 at 05:54 PM

hiepphotog
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

sebboh wrote:
i just got my camera back from kolari yesterday with the new ultra thin v4 conversion. unfortunately, it's been pouring rain the entire time so i haven't gotten to do much with it.

couple of random shots in the rain and terrible light with the contax g 21:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2904/32972671780_95c4d8cfae_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2845/33355309215_4ae3db4f34_o.jpg
and a comparison of the zm 35/1.4 and cv 35/1.7 on the stock sensor vs the new ultra thin conversion:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/624/33355308885_1edf1bf722_o.jpg
full sized here

another big thanks to nehemiah for lending me the lenses to test.

Derek, nice comparison! Exactly what I'm looking for. Since you have the G 28 and 21, would you post some similar comparison? Much appreciated.

Mar 11, 2017 at 06:49 PM

sebboh
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Steve Spencer wrote:
Well that is pretty clear that v4 of the Kolari mod does not play well with that lens.

yup, inward field curvature towards the corners. you don't have to change focus much to get the corners in focus though, i bet you can still get decent performance balancing focus between the center and the corner.

Mar 11, 2017 at 06:50 PM

sebboh
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p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

hiepphotog wrote:
Derek, nice comparison! Exactly what I'm looking for. Since you have the G 28 and 21, would you post some similar comparison? Much appreciated.

yeah, working on it.

Mar 11, 2017 at 06:52 PM

uhoh7
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Steve Spencer wrote:
Well that is pretty clear that v4 of the Kolari mod does not play well with that lens.
Yes, looks just as bad as a M wide on the stock camera

Shows just how much the lenses must be tweaked to work with the many layers of glass over the stock sensor.
I think Illija is calling this version the "ultra-thin" (UT). V4 may get confusing as 1-3 are standard thickness IR cuts, and Kolari may try another of that thickness in the future, like the STC. Would be nice to have a short designation which makes it clear which is the new IR technology. My samples are designated UT. Can we use that so readers are not confused? There may actually be more UT versions, also.

The UT is fundamentally different in manufacture, and may present the photographer with equally different IR and WB issues. It is completely new, and this is the first time ever on any FF camera or large sensor camera. Not just another "version" like S8612 vs BG55. Another "thing", which may be of interest to others in the future, for reasons we don't know here. Let's make it easy for all to know what we are talking about

DSC01050 by unoh7, on Flickr

working with the already unusual (color signature) CV 35/1.2

Sharp Point by unoh7,CV 35/1.2

I was making my first camera profiles today. Work in progress.

Edited on Mar 11, 2017 at 07:52 PM · View previous versions

Mar 11, 2017 at 07:08 PM

dpap1978
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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action

Uhoh7, I have a zm 21/4.5 to lend you if you want to see how it peforms on the thin filter vs the M9

Mar 11, 2017 at 07:24 PM

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