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Archive 2016Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
p.19 #1Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
DavidBM wrote:
I'm guessing the issue is that the Tele Tessar 4/85 is a stop slower, so the AF on TAP is less good, with the result that the lens has to be closer to being in focus for the AF to work. Nothing to do with the focus throw.
This makes sense. I guess the only way to be sure is to run some tests. Just as well I have more 85mm lenses than I know what to do with.
I'm guessing the issue is that the Tele Tessar 4/85 is a stop slower, so the AF on TAP is less good, with the result that the lens has to be closer to being in focus for the AF to work. Nothing to do with the focus throw.
This makes sense. I guess the only way to be sure is to run some tests. Just as well I have more 85mm lenses than I know what to do with.
Mar 12, 2017 at 09:54 PM
p.19 #2Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
It's no secret that I'm a big fan of the TechArt Pro adapter.
However, as others have reported on this and other threads, there is design flaw that needs to be addressed by TechArt.
The issue is how the 'lens carrier' (the section that moves in and out) was designed. It will develop a wobble after a while because its top area it's not supported at all!
The heavier the lens, the faster it will wobble but it's an issue even if only using light lenses.
Point in case: I have tried three brand new adapters and used them solely with two lenses: Zeiss 50/1.5C and Zeiss 35/1.4. The latter is only about 380g. Within a month of usage, the wobble started to happen in all three adapters.
It's easy to test yours: Just make the adapter extend and press the top of the 'lens carrier'. If it moves inwards as you press it, your adapter has the wobble.
Is this really a problem?
Yes, it is. This wobble tilts the plane of focus and because of the lack of parallelism corners will look asymmetric. It will also affect the adapter's ability to focus with accuracy and speed.
It's a hardware issue and I hope Techart addresses it for a next version of this adapter.
However, as others have reported on this and other threads, there is design flaw that needs to be addressed by TechArt.
The issue is how the 'lens carrier' (the section that moves in and out) was designed. It will develop a wobble after a while because its top area it's not supported at all!
The heavier the lens, the faster it will wobble but it's an issue even if only using light lenses.
Point in case: I have tried three brand new adapters and used them solely with two lenses: Zeiss 50/1.5C and Zeiss 35/1.4. The latter is only about 380g. Within a month of usage, the wobble started to happen in all three adapters.
It's easy to test yours: Just make the adapter extend and press the top of the 'lens carrier'. If it moves inwards as you press it, your adapter has the wobble.
Is this really a problem?
Yes, it is. This wobble tilts the plane of focus and because of the lack of parallelism corners will look asymmetric. It will also affect the adapter's ability to focus with accuracy and speed.
It's a hardware issue and I hope Techart addresses it for a next version of this adapter.
Mar 23, 2017 at 10:52 AM
p.19 #3Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.
Mar 23, 2017 at 10:59 AM
p.19 #4Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
rji2goleez wrote:
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.
Even the slightest amount of movement (wobble) is enough to throw your corners out of focus. It acts as a lens tilt.
Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.
Even the slightest amount of movement (wobble) is enough to throw your corners out of focus. It acts as a lens tilt.
Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
Mar 23, 2017 at 11:02 AM
p.19 #5Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
I contacted them at one point about the wobble and they wanted me to send a video to show the wobble. Well then my adapter wasn't wobbling which is probably just wether it was extended or not.
I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Fred Miranda wrote:
rji2goleez wrote
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
Mar 23, 2017 at 11:13 AM
p.19 #6Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
rji2goleez wrote:
I contacted them at one point about the wobble and they wanted me to send a video to show the wobble. Well then my adapter wasn't wobbling which is probably just wether it was extended or not.
I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Even the slightest amount of movement (wobble) is enough to throw your corners out of focus. It acts as a lens tilt.
Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
My last adapter was a replacement from TechArt. I also had to send a video showing the wobble and they replaced it with a new unit. Unfortunately this new unit started to have the same exact issue a few weeks later...
I contacted them at one point about the wobble and they wanted me to send a video to show the wobble. Well then my adapter wasn't wobbling which is probably just wether it was extended or not.
I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Fred Miranda wrote
rji2goleez wrote
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
My last adapter was a replacement from TechArt. I also had to send a video showing the wobble and they replaced it with a new unit. Unfortunately this new unit started to have the same exact issue a few weeks later...
Mar 23, 2017 at 11:17 AM
p.19 #7Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
Wobble here as well. As I shoot "wide-open" most of the time with blurry backgrounds, it's not critical to me the way I use the adapter now. But I consider it to be a serious design flaw, especially considering the price.
Mar 23, 2017 at 11:29 AM
p.19 #8Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
Can anyone link to a video of the wobble?
I can extend the adapter with a 90mm Summicron, push lightly, downward, on the top end of the lens, and have the bottom side of adapter rotate inward (lens deflects downward) - is that what people are referring to?
I can extend the adapter with a 90mm Summicron, push lightly, downward, on the top end of the lens, and have the bottom side of adapter rotate inward (lens deflects downward) - is that what people are referring to?
Mar 23, 2017 at 11:58 AM
p.19 #9Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
bluloo wrote:
Can anyone link to a video of the wobble?
I can extend the adapter with a 90mm Summicron, push lightly, downward, on the top end of the lens, and have the bottom side of adapter rotate inward (lens deflects downward) - is that what people are referring to?
On mine, it's less of a bending and more of a looseness if that makes sense to folks. In other words, it feels like the adapter has a wear gap that makes it feel like it has loosened so that it can 'bump' from side to side or top to bottom.
Mar 23, 2017 at 12:02 PM
p.19 #10Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
So all of Our TAP's either have, or will have, this wobble problem? Hard to see how a small business could potentially replace that many units and stay solvent. Doesn't seem like much point in sending one back under warranty until the design flaw is fixed and then they should replace them all
Mar 23, 2017 at 01:04 PM
p.19 #11Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
If it is indeed a design flaw, and every unit will prematurely fail, I can't see them replacing every unit, regardless of whether or not it's "fixed" (as a design flaw), and still stay solvent.
Hopefully it's not something that most of us will experience.
Hopefully it's not something that most of us will experience.
Mar 23, 2017 at 01:07 PM
p.19 #12Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
As I see it we all bought into beta testing of a remarkable new gadget. Period.
So, hopefully TAP will improve their adapter and make it more robust.
Then we get to buy the new now regular products.
K-H.
So, hopefully TAP will improve their adapter and make it more robust.
Then we get to buy the new now regular products.
K-H.
Mar 23, 2017 at 02:25 PM
p.19 #13Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
ratherfish wrote:
So all of Our TAP's either have, or will have, this wobble problem? Hard to see how a small business could potentially replace that many units and stay solvent. Doesn't seem like much point in sending one back under warranty until the design flaw is fixed and then they should replace them all
Highly unlikely, as you say, that they would replace all the units they've sold but it would take out some of the sting if they offered a trade-in program for current owners who wish to purchase the "improved" model.
So all of Our TAP's either have, or will have, this wobble problem? Hard to see how a small business could potentially replace that many units and stay solvent. Doesn't seem like much point in sending one back under warranty until the design flaw is fixed and then they should replace them all
Highly unlikely, as you say, that they would replace all the units they've sold but it would take out some of the sting if they offered a trade-in program for current owners who wish to purchase the "improved" model.
Mar 23, 2017 at 05:21 PM
p.19 #14Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
k-h.a.w wrote:
As I see it we all bought into beta testing of a remarkable new gadget. Period.
So, hopefully TAP will improve their adapter and make it more robust.
Then we get to buy the new now regular products.
K-H.
Expensive beta test. Won't be doing that again. And I think I'll wait to return mine under warranty until they release a new and improved model. Glad I purchased my TAP on my credit card so the warranty is doubled. I'll wait as long as possible. If they don't release a TAP2 in the near future, no more Techart for me.
Mar 23, 2017 at 07:17 PM
p.19 #15Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
Fred Miranda wrote:
I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Even the slightest amount of movement (wobble) is enough to throw your corners out of focus. It acts as a lens tilt.
Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.My last adapter was a replacement from TechArt. I also had to send a video showing the wobble and they replaced it with a new unit. Unfortunately this new unit started to have the same exact issue a few weeks later...
Good grief, "weeks".
i literally just ordered the 35/1.4 ZM and TAP.
first, i noticed that v5 of the firmware is no longer on the website (software i can deal with) and now there's this physical hardware problem - ugh, i guess i'll use this as an oppty to see how i feel about the whole AF w/ TAP and whether or not the ZM is my 35mm solution - but there's no way i'm keeping the TAP - this needs to be fixed in a new version.
i think the TAP was single-handedly responsible for increasing the used prices of a lot of ZM lenses, particularly the 35/1.4 and C-Sonnar 50 (or maybe it was Fred's enthusiasm for both that did it - which now btw seems to have had an effect on the zony 35/2.8).
rji2goleez wrote
I contacted them at one point about the wobble and they wanted me to send a video to show the wobble. Well then my adapter wasn't wobbling which is probably just wether it was extended or not.I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Fred Miranda wrote
rji2goleez wrote
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
Good grief, "weeks".
i literally just ordered the 35/1.4 ZM and TAP.
first, i noticed that v5 of the firmware is no longer on the website (software i can deal with) and now there's this physical hardware problem - ugh, i guess i'll use this as an oppty to see how i feel about the whole AF w/ TAP and whether or not the ZM is my 35mm solution - but there's no way i'm keeping the TAP - this needs to be fixed in a new version.
i think the TAP was single-handedly responsible for increasing the used prices of a lot of ZM lenses, particularly the 35/1.4 and C-Sonnar 50 (or maybe it was Fred's enthusiasm for both that did it - which now btw seems to have had an effect on the zony 35/2.8).
Apr 02, 2017 at 11:53 PM
p.19 #16Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
ecarlino wrote:
I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Even the slightest amount of movement (wobble) is enough to throw your corners out of focus. It acts as a lens tilt.
Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.My last adapter was a replacement from TechArt. I also had to send a video showing the wobble and they replaced it with a new unit. Unfortunately this new unit started to have the same exact issue a few weeks later...Good grief, "weeks".
i literally just ordered the 35/1.4 ZM and TAP.
first, i noticed that v5 of the firmware is no longer on the website (software i can deal with) and now there's this physical hardware problem - ugh, i guess i'll use this as an oppty to see how i feel about the whole AF w/ TAP and whether or not the ZM is my 35mm solution - but there's no way i'm keeping the TAP - this needs to be fixed in a new version.
i think the TAP was single-handedly responsible for increasing the used prices of a lot...Show more →
v5 of the TAP firmware is still available via the phone app.
Fred Miranda wrote
rji2goleez wrote
I contacted them at one point about the wobble and they wanted me to send a video to show the wobble. Well then my adapter wasn't wobbling which is probably just wether it was extended or not.I suggest we all check our adapters and contact Techart if we find as Fred has.
Fred Miranda wrote
rji2goleez wrote
Yes, I've noticed some wobble depending on whether the adapter is extended or not. At first I though it was intermittent but it's as you describe. Mine is currently very slight but worrisome.Unfortunately it will get worse over time.
I made TechArt aware of this but as of now, I still haven't received a response.
i literally just ordered the 35/1.4 ZM and TAP.
first, i noticed that v5 of the firmware is no longer on the website (software i can deal with) and now there's this physical hardware problem - ugh, i guess i'll use this as an oppty to see how i feel about the whole AF w/ TAP and whether or not the ZM is my 35mm solution - but there's no way i'm keeping the TAP - this needs to be fixed in a new version.
i think the TAP was single-handedly responsible for increasing the used prices of a lot...Show more →
v5 of the TAP firmware is still available via the phone app.
Apr 03, 2017 at 11:55 AM
p.19 #17Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
I have been following this thread with increasing enthusiasm for the idea of getting myself the TAP. How disappointing that it now appears to be badly flawed. Luckily I had not actually ordered one. Waiting now for a redesigend TAP to prove itself.
Apr 08, 2017 at 03:27 AM
p.19 #18Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
SandyW5 wrote:
I have been following this thread with increasing enthusiasm for the idea of getting myself the TAP. How disappointing that it now appears to be badly flawed. Luckily I had not actually ordered one. Waiting now for a redesigend TAP to prove itself.
No doubt a rational decision but I honestly believe that, in foregoing the purchase of the "flawed" TAP, you're possibly denying yourself an inordinate amount of sheer photographic pleasure. I say "possibly" because I have no idea what lenses you intended to use with the TAP. I'd become progressively more disenchanted with the direction Sony has taken in designing huge fast prime lenses (35/1.4, 501.4, 85/1.4). The Loxia line is the optimum size for native FE lenses IMO (I did succumb and buy an FE 85/1.8 but it is relatively light). The TAP has (almost miraculously) provided AF for a huge range of small M and LTM mount lenses and made it possible to work in a relaxed, fluid, and unobtrusive way: camera held at waist level with fast, accurate AF. In other words, heaven on a stick.
I've just checked both of my TAPs ("Buy a pair, keep a spare" as a friend of mine used to say). Neither exhibits the wobble. I've always felt that the 700g limit for lenses attached to the TAP is wildly optimistic and, apart from a single usage of a Distagon C/Y 35/1.4 (which I found unpleasantly cumbersome), I've restricted my TAP usage to smaller (mainly 50mm M/LTM mount) lenses. The heaviest lens I regularly use is an M-Hexanon 50/1.2 which, similar to Fred's Distagon 35/1.4 ZM, weighs about 390g. So It's troubling that Fred encountered problems with his Distagon. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it.
I have been following this thread with increasing enthusiasm for the idea of getting myself the TAP. How disappointing that it now appears to be badly flawed. Luckily I had not actually ordered one. Waiting now for a redesigend TAP to prove itself.
No doubt a rational decision but I honestly believe that, in foregoing the purchase of the "flawed" TAP, you're possibly denying yourself an inordinate amount of sheer photographic pleasure. I say "possibly" because I have no idea what lenses you intended to use with the TAP. I'd become progressively more disenchanted with the direction Sony has taken in designing huge fast prime lenses (35/1.4, 501.4, 85/1.4). The Loxia line is the optimum size for native FE lenses IMO (I did succumb and buy an FE 85/1.8 but it is relatively light). The TAP has (almost miraculously) provided AF for a huge range of small M and LTM mount lenses and made it possible to work in a relaxed, fluid, and unobtrusive way: camera held at waist level with fast, accurate AF. In other words, heaven on a stick.
I've just checked both of my TAPs ("Buy a pair, keep a spare" as a friend of mine used to say). Neither exhibits the wobble. I've always felt that the 700g limit for lenses attached to the TAP is wildly optimistic and, apart from a single usage of a Distagon C/Y 35/1.4 (which I found unpleasantly cumbersome), I've restricted my TAP usage to smaller (mainly 50mm M/LTM mount) lenses. The heaviest lens I regularly use is an M-Hexanon 50/1.2 which, similar to Fred's Distagon 35/1.4 ZM, weighs about 390g. So It's troubling that Fred encountered problems with his Distagon. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it.
Apr 08, 2017 at 04:24 AM
p.19 #19Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
^ I agree with much of this. I'll add that if you take the TAP for what it was/is at the time of introduction, a quite revolutionary product, I can somewhat "forgive" the wobble issue. Yes, it's a design flaw, but if you shoot with blurry backgrounds, impact will be small, and you still have a revolutionary product which yields fast and precise AF to any MF lens you can think of. It's not a cheap adapter, but what it achieves is pretty amazing IMO.
Apr 08, 2017 at 04:30 AM
p.19 #20Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ
Do you guys think this issue can be easily fixed in a re-design? How can we petition Techart as a group to do so. Maybe offer new one at cost for trade in of the old ones.
What is interesting to me: nobody really finding this a problem until Fred points it out. I am thinking to myself, if this is so acute, why did we not see "problem images" much sooner?
Fred has gotten to be a fantastic tester in the past few years, I think. Most of us have seen how good he is now in the front-end filter thread and others. He is acutely aware of de-centering issues and edge corner performance.
The central issue here is one which has a history. The A7x comes out and you get a bunch of posts at various forums, "hey, this thing is great with Leica M!" But it turns out their subjects are in the central frame, or the corners are close so the FC actually helps. So many people have been shooting TAP for quite some time, and.....no complaints about decentering? In this context the recent indignation is maybe a bit over the top. My whole Emount on the A7 will move if I press it firmly, and this is common. Just how loose is the wobble?
What I would like to see are images ruined by this problem. Links appreciated.
The obvious suspect would be the type of infinity landscape we now use to test lenses. But at infinity the adapter is collapsed, and there may not be any problem....
So please let's see the TAP wobble in some images....
It's really good to know the issue exists, but if I can back down to infinity, MF and get a flat field when I really need one, the adapter may be worth it anyway for me.
What is interesting to me: nobody really finding this a problem until Fred points it out. I am thinking to myself, if this is so acute, why did we not see "problem images" much sooner?
Fred has gotten to be a fantastic tester in the past few years, I think. Most of us have seen how good he is now in the front-end filter thread and others. He is acutely aware of de-centering issues and edge corner performance.
The central issue here is one which has a history. The A7x comes out and you get a bunch of posts at various forums, "hey, this thing is great with Leica M!" But it turns out their subjects are in the central frame, or the corners are close so the FC actually helps. So many people have been shooting TAP for quite some time, and.....no complaints about decentering? In this context the recent indignation is maybe a bit over the top. My whole Emount on the A7 will move if I press it firmly, and this is common. Just how loose is the wobble?
What I would like to see are images ruined by this problem. Links appreciated.
The obvious suspect would be the type of infinity landscape we now use to test lenses. But at infinity the adapter is collapsed, and there may not be any problem....
So please let's see the TAP wobble in some images....
It's really good to know the issue exists, but if I can back down to infinity, MF and get a flat field when I really need one, the adapter may be worth it anyway for me.
Apr 08, 2017 at 11:30 AM