Archive 2016 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
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p.41 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,
I will need to run some tests with my Cambo Actus and using shift to test some of my lenses that I believe will cover, but I do not believe that I will be able to check lenses longer than 100mm or possibly 180mm in focal length due to not having sufficient bellows length to check these lenses. From what I have been able to ascertain on line, the Leica R 28mm f2.8 V2 Elmarit just about covers the format. I will check my copy of this. I know from doing testing that my Leica R 28mm f2.8 Super Angulon PC (Schneider PC lens) easily covers the format as it is a shift lens. I will also check my Leica R 35mm-70mm f4 Vario Elmar, and at least as far as I can focus with my Leica R 80-200mm f4 Vario Elmar lens. I have run some tests for focus, but will confirm the coverage of my Leica R Macro Elmar f 4 Bellows lens. I will also check my Leica R 50mm f2.0 Summicron and my Leica R 60mm f2.8 Macro Elmarit lenses. Additionally, though not recommended by Leica to have any air space behind my 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit lens, I will test it as well. If I can focus my 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens by a combination of the bellows and the lens helicoid I will also check it. If I can focus the 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens then I will also try my 280mm f4 Apo Telyt naked as well as with the 1.4X and 2X Apo extenders. But, I suspect that I will be unable to confirm the 280mm and quite possibly the 180mm as well. If possible, I will try to test the coverage of the mentioned lenses later in the week.
Thanks Rich, that is much appreciated. Too bad it is so hard to check the long lenses, but I think they will actually have the bigger image circles. Anyway, thanks again. I will be looking forward to seeing what you find.
p.41 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I just spent this weekend with the Hassy. It's sufficient to say I am totally in love with this thing. I was all set to get the new Leica M coming in spring. But I think after this weekend I suddenly lost interest in that. If someone finds out cure for G.A.S. Please let me know
p.41 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Tmuussoni wrote:
I just spent this weekend with the Hassy. It's sufficient to say I am totally in love with this thing. I was all set to get the new Leica M coming in spring. But I think after this weekend I suddenly lost interest in that. If someone finds out cure for G.A.S. Please let me know
Did you happen to notice the firmware version number, and whether or not there was any lag or flickering with the EVF?
Thanks...
p.41 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
blue265 wrote:
Did you happen to notice the firmware version number, and whether or not there was any lag or flickering with the EVF?
Thanks...
Hi.
I can't say I noticed any flickering nor lag. If there was lag it was in extremely low light. So I think the EVF is good enough for my use. Not as good as Leica SL, but it's about on par with Sony A7 series. I guess I like EVFs.
Unfortunately I did not check the firmware version number. However, I just pulled the information out of one RAW file and according to Exiftool the software version was: v1.12.0-4554. Does this help? I was going to write about my thoughts about this camera later here.
uhoh7 wrote:
Can't wait for the Hassie v Fuji Shootout
Same here! So far I am more impressed with the Hassy. The leaf shutter really is awesome. Fuji keeps claiming Global shutter might make leaf shutters obsolete in the future. Too bad nobody knows how many years that is going to take...
p.41 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks Rich, that is much appreciated. Too bad it is so hard to check the long lenses, but I think they will actually have the bigger image circles. Anyway, thanks again. I will be looking forward to seeing what you find.
Hi Steve,
I am running behind on the lens tests. However, I do have 2 2 extension tube sets coming from China for the Sony FE mount. Hopefully these extension tube sets will be OK, keep everything aligned, and will allow both sets (2 inches of extension total) to mount the A7r cameras onto my Cambo Actus. If this works, it will give me more fredom with the longer Leica R lenses like my 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt. I also have sets of Leica R extension tubes to use on the Cambo Leica R lens mount. I am trying to avoid using the Leica R extension tubes with the Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens due to putting stress on the mount and the camera body as I add the extension. If I need to I will try to support the 180mm Apo Telyt lens with a second tripod. But, with the extension tubes, I think that I will have sufficient bellows draw (about 195mm including the bellows, 18mm to the sensor plane, and 2" of extension) to test the 180mm Apo. As to the 280mm f4 Apo, I still do not think that I will have sufficient Bellows draw.
p.41 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Tmuussoni wrote:
Hi.
I can't say I noticed any flickering nor lag. If there was lag it was in extremely low light. So I think the EVF is good enough for my use. Not as good as Leica SL, but it's about on par with Sony A7 series. I guess I like EVFs.
Unfortunately I did not check the firmware version number. However, I just pulled the information out of one RAW file and according to Exiftool the software version was: v1.12.0-4554. Does this help? I was going to write about my thoughts about this camera later here.
That's good news about the EVF.
And thanks for the firmware info. It's older than the last one Ming Thein reported, so it would appear that Hassy is actively trying to improve it and bring on new features.
BTW, over @ Lula, someone has reported that their shipment from B&H is about to be sent. That's good to hear.
Edit: Apparently the Lula person has retracted his statement about the X1D shipping. B&H is only preparing a lens to ship. Darn
Nov 21, 2016 at 12:24 PM
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p.41 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
blue265 wrote:
That's good news about the EVF.
And thanks for the firmware info. It's older than the last one Ming Thein reported, so it would appear that Hassy is actively trying to improve it and bring on new features.
BTW, over @ Lula, someone has reported that their shipment from B&H is about to be sent. That's good to hear.
Edit: Apparently the Lula person has retracted his statement about the X1D shipping. B&H is only preparing a lens to ship. Darn
Yes, B & H has both the 45 and the 90 in stock. If you are in line for the 90, I cancelled my order on that, so one less person in line there. I still have my preorder for the camera and the 45, however. I might well go for the 45 and H lenses, but we will see.
p.41 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Hi Steve,
I decided to do a preliminary test of my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt and my A7r camera mounted to my Cambo Actus. I did not expect this but I found that I could mount the lens and then focus the lens on the Cambo Leica R adapter keeping the lens board and the camera standard very close together. I found that with the lens helicoid that I could focus on homes, etc, behind my home hundreds of feet away. Not quite inifinity but close enough for initial tests. This was true without any additional extension tubes, etc. Just viewing through the camera with the lens wide open and not recording any of what I saw on the camera screen, it appeared that I could shift the camera approximately 6 or 7 mm to the left and the right without any visible vignetting when viewing in landscape orientation. I would expect that at f11 that I may well be able to shift the lens even further. My initial tests then would suggest that the image circle for the lens may well be at least 48mm (and this is wide open). If this is correct, then this would suggest that the lens would cover a sensor size wide open of 36mm X 48mm which is easily larger than the size of the new Hasselblad and new Fujifilm 33mm X 44mm sensor size. This appears to be wide open for the lens and obviously to maintain focus to the edges the lens would require to be stopped down to probably about f8 or f11. This should prove to be an extremely valuable lens to use with my Cambo Actus with my A7r cameras. As to the Leica 280mm f4 Apo Telyt, even if I could focus the lens as it appears that I can with the 180mm lens, I would want to use a second tripod to support the lens when mounted on the Cambo Actus.
Rich
Nov 21, 2016 at 03:35 PM
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p.41 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,
I decided to do a preliminary test of my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt and my A7r camera mounted to my Cambo Actus. I did not expect this but I found that I could mount the lens and then focus the lens on the Cambo Leica R adapter keeping the lens board and the camera standard very close together. I found that with the lens helicoid that I could focus with the lens helicoid on homes, etc, behind my home hundreds of feet away. Not quite inifinity but close enough for initial tests. This was true without any additional extension tubes, etc. Just viewing through the camera with the lens wide open and not recording any of what I saw on the camera screen, it appeared that I could shift the camera approximately 6 or 7 mm to the left and the right without any visible vignetting when viewing in landscape orientation. I would expect that at f11 that I may well be able to shift the lens even further. My initial tests then would suggest that the image circle for the lens may well be at least 48mm (and this is wide open). If this is correct, then this would suggest that the lens would cover a sensor size wide open of 36mm X 48mm which is easily larger than the size of the new Hasselblad and new Fujifilm 33mm X 44mm sensor size. This appears to be wide open for the lens and obviously to maintain focus to the edges the lens would require to be stopped down to probably about f8 or f11. This should prove to be an extremely valuable lens to use with my Cambo Actus with my A7r cameras. As to the Leica 280mm f4 Apo Telyt, even if I could focus the lens as it appears that I can with the 180mm lens, I would want to use a second tripod to support the lens when mounted on the Cambo Actus.
Thanks so much for the measurements, but the image circle might not be quite big enough to cover the whole sensor. If you want to get all the way to the corners you need the diagonal not the edge measurement. So, the Hassy/Fuji sensor (made by Sony, they appear to have the same sensor) is 33 X 44, but the diagonal all the way to the corner is 55mm. So you need a 55mm image circle to cover the whole sensor. For landscapes, however, I would be happy to cover the 3 X 2 ratio crop of the sensor which is 29 and a third X 44 and has a diagonal of 52 and a third mm. So even that would not quite be covered. A 48mm image circle would almost exactly cover a 26 X 39mm central section of the sensor, so the gain over FF 35mm (24 X 36mm) would be small and would not have any more resolution than the A7rII (actually a little less). That is too bad, as I highlighted above even a 52mm image circle would be enough to cover most landscape needs well even if a 55mm image circle is needed for the whole sensor. Thanks again for providing the estimates of the image circle. It is much appreciated.
p.41 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Rich,
Thanks so much for the measurements, but the image circle might not be quite big enough to cover the whole sensor. If you want to get all the way to the corners you need the diagonal not the edge measurement. So, the Hassy/Fuji sensor (made by Sony, they appear to have the same sensor) is 33 X 44, but the diagonal all the way to the corner is 55mm. So you need a 55mm image circle to cover the whole sensor. For landscapes, however, I would be happy to cover the 3 X 2 ratio crop of the sensor which is 29 and a third X 44 and has a diagonal of 52 and a third mm. So even that would not quite be covered. A 48mm image circle would almost exactly cover a 26 X 39mm central section of the sensor, so the gain over FF 35mm (24 X 36mm) would be small and would not have any more resolution than the A7rII (actually a little less). That is too bad, as I highlighted above even a 52mm image circle would be enough to cover most landscape needs well even if a 55mm image circle is needed for the whole sensor. Thanks again for providing the estimates of the image circle. It is much appreciated....Show more →
Hi Steve,
I think that I made an error in stating the image circle. I accidentally just added the 12mm to the 36mm of the long axis of the 35mm format size. As I had stated even wide open the lens appears to provide at least 6mm of shift to the left and to the right in the horizontal direction. Following this reasoning, that would allow for a long axis of 48mm and adding 12mm to the 24mm of the short axis of the 35mm would yield 36mm. So if you then calculate this to determine the diagonal, you would have (36 X 36) + (48 X 48) = 1296 + 2304 = 3600. The square root of 3600 would calculate the diagonal of this which should be 60mm for the image circle, so even wide open, the lens should cover the new format. The lens should then be able to cover a format of 36mm X 48mm at the very least which is larger than the 33mm X 44mm Hasselbald and Fujifilm Mini Medium format and still maintain the same .75 proportions of the new format (and very close to 4" X 5").
Rich
Nov 21, 2016 at 04:20 PM
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p.41 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,
I think that I made an error in stating the image circle. I accidentally just added the 12mm to the 36mm of the long axis of the 35mm format size. As I had stated even wide open the lens appears to provide at least 6mm of shift to the left and to the right in the horizontal direction. Following this reasoning, that would allow for a long axis of 48mm and adding 12mm to the 24mm of the short axis of the 35mm would yield 36mm. So if you then calculate this to determine the diagonal, you would have (36 X 36) + (48 X 48) = 1296 + 2304 = 3600. The square root of 3600 would calculate the diagonal of this which should be 60mm for the image circle, so even wide open, the lens should cover the new format. The lens should then be able to cover a format of 36mm X 48mm at the very least which is larger than the 33mm X 44mm Hasselbald and Fujifilm Mini Medium format and still maintain the same .75 proportions of the new format (and very close to 4" X 5").
Thanks Rich for the correction, but I still think the calculation is quite right. I think what you saw was at a 24mm image height not 36 image height, which would be hard to see. So, I would calculate the diagonal as the square root of (24 X 24) + (48 X 48) = 576 + 2304 = 2880 = 53.66. So, it would just work for the sensor if you crop to a 3 X 2 perspective, but it wouldn't quite cover the full 4 X 3 perspective. Still it could be very workable and especially as the lens was stopped down. There would probably be pretty strong vignetting with the 180 f/3.4 APO at f/3.4--the vignetting is pretty strong even on a 35mm FF sensor, but as you stop down it ought to be quite nice.
p.41 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks Rich for the correction, but I still think the calculation is quite right. I think what you saw was at a 24mm image height not 36 image height, which would be hard to see. So, I would calculate the diagonal as the square root of (24 X 24) + (48 X 48) = 576 + 2304 = 2880 = 53.66. So, it would just work for the sensor if you crop to a 3 X 2 perspective, but it wouldn't quite cover the full 4 X 3 perspective. Still it could be very workable and especially as the lens was stopped down. There would probably be pretty strong vignetting with the 180 f/3.4 APO at f/3.4--the vignetting is pretty strong even on a 35mm FF sensor, but as you stop down it ought to be quite nice....Show more →
Hi Steve,
I did not test anything but 24mm in height, but I suspect that since the lens projects a circular cone of light that there should be additional height for the 24mm dimension as well. But, let me actually run some real tests that are recorded in digital file form. I will try to build the images from what I suspect will be a total of 9 images taken horizontally (3 rows of 3 image). I will also run the same tests using a total of 3 vertical images. I hope that the 9 horizontal images will yield the 36mm X 48mm image size (but I will confirm this) and the 3 vertical images should hopefully yield an image that is 36mm X 36mm (which I will also confirm).
Rich
Nov 21, 2016 at 08:13 PM
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p.41 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,
I did not test anything but 24mm in height, but I suspect that since the lens projects a circular cone of light that there should be additional height for the 24mm dimension as well. But, let me actually run some real tests that are recorded in digital file form. I will try to build the images from what I suspect will be a total of 9 images taken horizontally (3 rows of 3 image). I will also run the same tests using a total of 3 vertical images. I hope that the 9 horizontal images will yield the 36mm X 48mm image size (but I will confirm this) and the 3 vertical images should hopefully yield an image that is 36mm X 36mm (which I will also confirm).
Yeah, I think you are likely right that the image extends just bit further. It ought to at least come very close to covering the whole image wide open and be pretty useable stopped down. Thanks a ton for doing the tests and I am looking forward to your further tests.
p.41 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
As a Leica R owner I am of course very interested in how this turns out for the extra lens coverage. If the 28 v2, 100 AME, and 180 Cron all make it, that would be a drastic increase in my incentive to buy a GFX. Unless the lenses are a good deal cheaper than I expect in which case I might have enough incentive anyway.
Unfortunately it would also likely also spur me to spend even more money on Leica R glass I don't really need.
p.41 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Hi Steve and Lee,
I performed some relatively quick tests with my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt with my A7r both mounted on my Cambo Actus camera.
I think that you should be pleased with the results. No these are not great images or worked at all and the images that I am posting are taken from the RAW files saved as TIFF files that were then imported into Photoshop CS6 which then used photo merge to create Panoramic Images. There is certainly some issue with the second image due to the images not being exactly the same exposure particularly visible in the sky and the exposures are not perfect. Additionally there are some issues for the focus in some locations noted in the very large RAW files that are not visible here.
I really pushed the lens with the camera to see what could be done. Yes vignetting is quite noticeable at the corners that will need some attention for usage on the Mini Format Medium Format of 33mm X 44mm with the Hasselblad and the Fujfilm cameras.
For the first image, the Panorama was created from 9 images taken horizontally at f11 using +, 0, and -5mm of rise/fall and 10mm of left and right shift and the null postion. This is the first image. This created a 457.9 MB 11477 X 7018 Pixel file.
The second image consists of 3 vertical images taken with the lens at f3.4. This image was taken using left, right and shift of 10mm and the null position. This created a 380.2 MB file of 9014 X 7372 Pixel file. This image demonstrates that the lens will cover the Hasselblad and the Fuljifilm 33mm X 44mm senosor size. The image itself has a ratio of 0.818 while the new format has a 0.75 ratio. The image would provide a 36mm X 44mm size.
The second image consists of 3 vertical images taken with the lens at f11. This image was taken using left, right and shift of 10mm and the null position. This created a 380.3 MB file of 9004 X 7382 Pixel file. This image demonstrates that the lens will cover the Hasselblad and the Fuljifilm 33mm X 44mm senosor size. The image itself has a ratio of 0.82 while the new format has a 0.75 ratio. The image would provide a 36mm X 44mm size.
So, unless I am mistaken, this is the first of my Leica R lenses that should at the very least cover the new 33mm X 44mm sensor size and should prove to be quite valuable as a telephoto lens to use with my A7r cameras when used with my Cambo Actus.
Rich
Nov 23, 2016 at 03:17 PM
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p.41 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Hi Rich,
Thanks again for doing these tests. It does look like it will cover the sensor and it might be a good option for the Fuji. Unless Hasselblad comes up with an electronic shutter it won't work with that camera unfortunately as the camera has no shutter and all the compatible lenses have leaf shutters. With no physical focal plane shutter, Hassy owners will likely be out of the market for R lenses. For me it makes it a tough choice. I like the idea of leaf shutters and that draws me to the Hassy, but the greater adaptability draws me to Fuji. I still haven't made up my mind. These tests are very useful as it looks like a number of very nice Leica R lenses could be put to use with the Fuji.
p.41 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Rich,
Thanks again for doing these tests. It does look like it will cover the sensor and it might be a good option for the Fuji. Unless Hasselblad comes up with an electronic shutter it won't work with that camera unfortunately as the camera has no shutter and all the compatible lenses have leaf shutters. With no physical focal plane shutter, Hassy owners will likely be out of the market for R lenses. For me it makes it a tough choice. I like the idea of leaf shutters and that draws me to the Hassy, but the greater adaptability draws me to Fuji. I still haven't made up my mind. These tests are very useful as it looks like a number of very nice Leica R lenses could be put to use with the Fuji....Show more →
Hi Steve,
As Justin Stailey of Fujifilm who I have known for years and who previously worked for Manfrotto/Bogen Photo, and Leica Camera USA indicated, Fujifilm would in all likelihood release some lenses with leaf shutters for those that need the flash sync. As Justin also mentioned, Fujifilm had decided to keep the system of the new camera open as did Sony with the A7 series cameras which would allow many other lenses to be used on the camera.
p.41 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I've been reading up a bit....dangerous I know
Probably no news to anyone in here, but please check me if I don't have something correct.
Fuji and Hassie sensors: identical size and maybe both Sony sensors. Leica 007 (and I assume 006) similar but more of a "landscape", less square. All of these are much smaller than phase one.
There is a much bigger difference between APS-C and FF than between the FF and these new MF Hassie type. In fact, if one was after less DOF, a FF will actually beat this size sensor if used very fast, since the lenses are so much faster. Of course, at that speed maybe they cannot do as well across the frame. Would be interesting to see exactly how much faster one would need to shoot to get equal DOF at various FLs.
Actual output, according some sources, is maybe not much higher rez than a 5DSR or A7rii for details, so it really comes down to lenses. On that front Leica is ahead. So, considering the price of an 006 now, that might be something to consider, if one was going to jump in, and ISO performance not critical.
Which at this point I am not
I'm sure some of that is very debatable, so please.....burst those bubbles
Nov 23, 2016 at 06:35 PM
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p.41 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
uhoh7 wrote:
I've been reading up a bit....dangerous I know
Probably no news to anyone in here, but please check me if I don't have something correct.
Fuji and Hassie sensors: identical size and maybe both Sony sensors. Leica 007 (and I assume 006) similar but more of a "landscape", less square. All of these are much smaller than phase one.
There is a much bigger difference between APS-C and FF than between the FF and these new MF Hassie type. In fact, if one was after less DOF, a FF will actually beat this size sensor if used very fast, since the lenses are so much faster. Of course, at that speed maybe they cannot do as well across the frame. Would be interesting to see exactly how much faster one would need to shoot to get equal DOF at various FLs.
Actual output, according some sources, is maybe not much higher rez than a 5DSR or A7rii for details, so it really comes down to lenses. On that front Leica is ahead. So, considering the price of an 006 now, that might be something to consider, if one was going to jump in, and ISO performance not critical.
Which at this point I am not
I'm sure some of that is very debatable, so please.....burst those bubbles ...Show more →
Charlie, a lot has to do with whether you like to shoot squarer or more in a rectangle. If you crop many of your 3 X 2 shots to 4 X 3 or squarer (as I do) the difference is a lot bigger than if you like to crop your shots in 2 X 3 or skinnier. If you crop both formats to 4 X 3 or squarer the crop factor is .727 and you gain almost a full stop in depth of field. On the other hand if you crop to 2 X 3 or skinnier then the crop factor is .818 and your only get about half a stop in depth of field. So a lot is determined on what aspect ratio you like. If you like 4 X 3 and squarer, then you do gain quite a bit. Not as much as APS-C to full frame, but not that far off either. If you like 2 X 3 and skinnier, then there are some questions about whether it would be worth it. You do gain some other potentially important things with the larger sensor. First, you get about a stop in dynamic range, and this can be a big deal for a lot of folks. We know this because the sensor in both cameras is the same Sony sensor that is in the Pentax 645Z and it is about a stop better in dynamic range than even the Nikon D810 and about 2 stop in dynamic range better than the Canon 5Ds(r). The Leica S007 is a great camera, but it can't compete with the dynamic range of the Sony sensor either.
The larger sensor all have better color depth as well. To my eye that is quite noticeable, so I think the mini MF has promise, but it won't be a night and day difference either, but for someone like me that loves to crop to 4 X 5 and even square I think it is a noticeable advance.
