p.42 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Charlie, a lot has to do with whether you like to shoot squarer or more in a rectangle. If you crop many of your 3 X 2 shots to 4 X 3 or squarer (as I do) the difference is a lot bigger than if you like to crop your shots in 2 X 3 or skinnier. If you crop both formats to 4 X 3 or squarer the crop factor is .727 and you gain almost a full stop in depth of field. On the other hand if you crop to 2 X 3 or skinnier then the crop factor is .818 and your only get about half a stop in depth of field. So a lot is determined on what aspect ratio you like. If you like 4 X 3 and squarer, then you do gain quite a bit. Not as much as APS-C to full frame, but not that far off either. If you like 2 X 3 and skinnier, then there are some questions about whether it would be worth it. You do gain some other potentially important things with the larger sensor. First, you get about a stop in dynamic range, and this can be a big deal for a lot of folks. We know this because the sensor in both cameras is the same Sony sensor that is in the Pentax 645Z and it is about a stop better in dynamic range than even the Nikon D810 and about 2 stop in dynamic range better than the Canon 5Ds(r). The Leica S007 is a great camera, but it can't compete with the dynamic range of the Sony sensor either.
The larger sensor all have better color depth as well. To my eye that is quite noticeable, so I think the mini MF has promise, but it won't be a night and day difference either, but for someone like me that loves to crop to 4 X 5 and even square I think it is a noticeable advance....Show more →
Great points, TY Steve
I must force myself to crop at all
Back in Nex-5 days I did it all the time, but Edward and others have trained me to try to shoot the whole frame
Where is r2 sensor DR wise?
Nov 23, 2016 at 08:18 PM
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p.42 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
uhoh7 wrote:
Great points, TY Steve
Where is r2 sensor DR wise?
It is very good, just a little less than the Nikon D810 which is better because it has a true ISO 50, but both are still a stop behind the bigger Sony Sensor in the Pentax 645Z and the Hasselblad H6D 50c, which is said to be the same sensor in the new Hassy and Fuji mirrorless.
p.42 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
It is very good, just a little less than the Nikon D810 which is better because it has a true ISO 50, but both are still a stop behind the bigger Sony Sensor in the Pentax 645Z and the Hasselblad H6D 50c, which is said to be the same sensor in the new Hassy and Fuji mirrorless.
Hi Steve,
But we will have to wait for the release of the Sony A7rIII which may well cut some of the difference and will hopefully be a 72-80 MP camera and will hopefully be released in 2017. And with any of these cameras and to have the option of using the Leica R lenses and other lenses on either a Cambo Actus or Cambo Actus DB2 may be a super option providing all kinds of camera movement and particularly if you don't wish to hand hold often and to work from a tripod.
DR wise this guy has me convinced the r2 from 800 up is smoking everyone, at least to 12k:
His comparison rings true to me because I'm shooting the RX1rii and the ISO 6400 files are blowing me away.
HIs test is very relevant to my own practical shooting anyway.
I need to save up for Kolari r2 Then maybe I can match the RX1rii at 35mm
TYG I waited on a A7s.mod, because I don't think I need any higher ISO than what the r2 gives. My poor A7 is hardly better than M9, ugly already at 1k. I was thinking seriously about buying the RX1rii I'm using, but.......
uncompressed RAWs are just superb, really surprised me
does anybody have a r2 Kolari? I can't find samples.
Nov 23, 2016 at 09:54 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.42 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
DR wise this guy has me convinced the r2 from 800 up is smoking everyone, at least to 12k:
His comparison rings true to me because I'm shooting the RX1rii and the ISO 6400 files are blowing me away.
HIs test is very relevant to my own practical shooting anyway.
I need to save up for Kolari r2 Then maybe I can match the RX1rii at 35mm
TYG I waited on a A7s.mod, because I don't think I need any higher ISO than what the r2 gives. My poor A7 is hardly better than M9, ugly already at 1k. I was thinking seriously about buying the RX1rii I'm using, but.......
uncompressed RAWs are just superb, really surprised me
does anybody have a r2 Kolari? I can't find samples....Show more →
Yes, Charlie at high ISOs the 42MP BSI sensor has remarkable DR for such a high megapixel camera, but when we talk about DR we usually mean maximum DR which is always at low ISO and not only does the Nikon D810 do ever so slightly better than the Sony A7rII at ISO 100, it has the added trick of going below 100 to a real ISO 50, so it has the maximum DR advantage among FF cameras. The Mini MF cameras are about a stop better than that for maximum DR. This maximum DR is often really important to landscape shooters who have really high DR scenes but often shoot at the lowest ISO. For me I like it because it makes it less likely that I will have to blend exposures for use grad ND filters for such shots. I find that a really nice bonus.
p.42 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve and Lee,
I performed some relatively quick tests with my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt with my A7r both mounted on my Cambo Actus camera.
I think that you should be pleased with the results. No these are not great images or worked at all and the images that I am posting are taken from the RAW files saved as TIFF files that were then imported into Photoshop CS6 which then used photo merge to create Panoramic Images. There is certainly some issue with the second image due to the images not being exactly the same exposure particularly visible in the sky and the exposures are not perfect. Additionally there are some issues for the focus in some locations noted in the very large RAW files that are not visible here.
I really pushed the lens with the camera to see what could be done. Yes vignetting is quite noticeable at the corners that will need some attention for usage on the Mini Format Medium Format of 33mm X 44mm with the Hasselblad and the Fujfilm cameras.
For the first image, the Panorama was created from 9 images taken horizontally at f11 using +, 0, and -5mm of rise/fall and 10mm of left and right shift and the null postion. This is the first image. This created a 457.9 MB 11477 X 7018 Pixel file.
The second image consists of 3 vertical images taken with the lens at f3.4. This image was taken using left, right and shift of 10mm and the null position. This created a 380.2 MB file of 9014 X 7372 Pixel file. This image demonstrates that the lens will cover the Hasselblad and the Fuljifilm 33mm X 44mm senosor size. The image itself has a ratio of 0.818 while the new format has a 0.75 ratio. The image would provide a 36mm X 44mm size.
The second image consists of 3 vertical images taken with the lens at f11. This image was taken using left, right and shift of 10mm and the null position. This created a 380.3 MB file of 9004 X 7382 Pixel file. This image demonstrates that the lens will cover the Hasselblad and the Fuljifilm 33mm X 44mm senosor size. The image itself has a ratio of 0.82 while the new format has a 0.75 ratio. The image would provide a 36mm X 44mm size.
So, unless I am mistaken, this is the first of my Leica R lenses that should at the very least cover the new 33mm X 44mm sensor size and should prove to be quite valuable as a telephoto lens to use with my A7r cameras when used with my Cambo Actus.
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p.42 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,
But we will have to wait for the release of the Sony A7rIII which may well cut some of the difference and will hopefully be a 72-80 MP camera and will hopefully be released in 2017. And with any of these cameras and to have the option of using the Leica R lenses and other lenses on either a Cambo Actus or Cambo Actus DB2 may be a super option providing all kinds of camera movement and particularly if you don't wish to hand hold often and to work from a tripod.
Rich
Hi Rich,
Yes, we don't know what Sony will do with new sensors next year, but the larger sensor in the mini MF cameras will always have the advantage of have a larger area to collect light. I actually expect at least two high end new sensors next year. One for the A7rIII and one for what I think will be an A9. I expect the A7rIII sensor to have lots of megapixels and be another BSI sensor with perhaps even better DR by having a true ISO 50. I expect the A9 to have fewer megapixels, lots of good PDAF sensors to improve AF, faster read out, and super good high ISO. Of course that is all speculation and how it will compare to the mini MF sensor is hard to know. I don't think the A7rIII sensor may come close to competing or even over take the mini MF sensor in dynamic range and resolution, but I doubt it will be in its league for color depth and high ISO. The A9 sensor might beat the mini MF in high ISO and be competitive in color depth, but it won't have the resolution or dynamic range. That is just a guess, however.
p.42 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
alundeb wrote:
Very interesting, Rich!
Did you have the hood out on these?
Hi,
I do not believe that the hood was out for these tests. I presume you are asking due to the vignetting. I believe that the hood should not interfere with the coverage. But I am quite pleased. My next test will probably be with my Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit followed by my Leica R 100mm f4 Bellows Macro Elmar.
p.42 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Here are Few Samples with the Hassy. Top two ones are shot with the 45mm and the last one is shot with the 90mm. All lenses are extremely sharp, corner to corner. Already from wide open. Built quality is fantastic. Otus quality, I might say. I am not used to focus by wire. So focusing needs to be done carefully on Landscapes. But for landscapes I'd say X1D is the ultimate package. Awesome dynamic range, extremely high quality IQ and relatively compact factor. And great to see Long exposures are working really well. At least for 10 minute ones I don't see any hot pixels. Then again I live in Finland
p.42 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
@Rich Ponts taken, Sir and Tapes does cover what you say in his test.
Fred was saying ISO 640 on r2 is better than 400, which makes me ask, is 100 best for landscape with lots of light on the r2?
Tmuussoni wrote:
Here are Few Samples with the Hassy. Top two ones are shot with the 45mm and the last one is shot with the 90mm. All lenses are extremely sharp, corner to corner. Already from wide open. Built quality is fantastic. Otus quality, I might say. I am not used to focus by wire. So focusing needs to be done carefully on Landscapes. But for landscapes I'd say X1D is the ultimate package. Awesome dynamic range, extremely high quality IQ and relatively compact factor. And great to see Long exposures are working really well. At least for 10 minute ones I don't see any hot pixels. Then again I live in Finland
p.42 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I guess I'm just getting old fashioned because to me "build quality is fantastic" and "[the lenses are] focus by wire" are directly and completely contradictory statements.
p.42 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
uhoh7 wrote:
Re focusing, is there infinity stop?
I actually forgot to test this. But since the lenses are focus by wire, I guess infinity hard stop is not included
Lee Saxon wrote:
I guess I'm just getting old fashioned because to me "build quality is fantastic" and "[the lenses are] focus by wire" are directly and completely contradictory statements.
Gorgeous photos though thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
You are not alone in that thought. I would love to have a proper infinity hard stop. My guess is lens manufacturers try to keep the costs down by having Focus by wire. And therefore we do not have infinity hard stops. But if that helps to keep the lenses' prices decent I guess I understand. And they are relatively affordable for being leaf shutter lenses. Leica ones are twice as much or more. So if I was to rephrase what I wrote I would say I really liked the all metal build for both the lens barrel and the hood. Every lens has Rubber seal in the mount so I would guess the Hassy is pretty good in terms of weather sealing as well.
p.42 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Actually I'm not big on infinity hard stops. I know this isn't true of all lens designs and focal lengths, but often they're so far past "normal temperature infinity" to account for temperature extremes and backfocus variation that I never actually hit them.
My thing is longevity. I want metal and glass and nothing else. I want my lenses to work the same in 50 years as they do today. I have a 1960 50 Cron that I can use on an A7 with ease in 2016. That's the goal. Cameras themselves have become disposable consumer electronics enough (inevitably, I understand).
p.42 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
Actually I'm not big on infinity hard stops. I know this isn't true of all lens designs and focal lengths, but often they're so far past "normal temperature infinity" to account for temperature extremes and backfocus variation that I never actually hit them.
My thing is longevity. I want metal and glass and nothing else. I want my lenses to work the same in 50 years as they do today. I have a 1960 50 Cron that I can use on an A7 with ease in 2016. That's the goal. Cameras themselves have become disposable consumer electronics enough (inevitably, I understand)....Show more →
I agree I have had more issues in having the lenses recalibrated as there is a marginal shift in the infinity stop, due to temperature, bumps or weight of the lens in the mount. It is fine if you have slight overshoot, but if you are traveling and it falls short, it is a real pain.
p.42 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
Actually I'm not big on infinity hard stops. I know this isn't true of all lens designs and focal lengths, but often they're so far past "normal temperature infinity" to account for temperature extremes and backfocus variation that I never actually hit them.
My thing is longevity. I want metal and glass and nothing else. I want my lenses to work the same in 50 years as they do today. I have a 1960 50 Cron that I can use on an A7 with ease in 2016. That's the goal. Cameras themselves have become disposable consumer electronics enough (inevitably, I understand)....Show more →
If you expect these new Hassy lenses to last as long as the M-lenses I don't have any doubts they wouldn't last just as long. It's solid metal construction. Feels very good in hand. It's a different question if the XCD Mount will last as long as M mount (right now over 60 years old). But I would not worry about that. Besides it's not like Leica lenses are perfect either. I have had to send my M lenses plenty of times for service: wobble problem, front end of the lens coming apart for Super-Elmar-M 21 and Summicron-M 28 etc.. And besides I thought one reason to use focus by wire was to overcome the problems related to thermal expansion. In that sense it's a good solution.
p.42 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
You do realise that an H series lens with adapter will be SIGNIFICANTLY longer than an XCD lens? What's the point of purposely creating an SL style weight and size mismatch?
ACG
Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks for the report. I still have my order in and I have picked up some other HC lenses while I am waiting. I am very intrigued by the 5 new lenses that will be coming. The one I would most want is something like a 135 f/2.8 if it is substantially smaller than the HC 150 f/3.2. I see a four lens kit with the 30, 45, 90, and that 135 as a great all around kit, then I could supplement with HC lenses for special purposes--for landscape the HCD 24 f/4.8, for portraits the HC 100 f/2.2, for long telephoto the HC 300 f/4.5, and for macro the HC 120 f/4. With 5 new lenses, however, some of the those HC lenses might have XCD counterparts....Show more →
p.42 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Tmuussoni wrote:
If you expect these new Hassy lenses to last as long as the M-lenses I don't have any doubts they wouldn't last just as long. It's solid metal construction. Feels very good in hand. It's a different question if the XCD Mount will last as long as M mount (right now over 60 years old). But I would not worry about that. Besides it's not like Leica lenses are perfect either. I have had to send my M lenses plenty of times for service: wobble problem, front end of the lens coming apart for Super-Elmar-M 21 and Summicron-M 28 etc.. And besides I thought one reason to use focus by wire was to overcome the problems related to thermal expansion. In that sense it's a good solution. ...Show more →
I mean, of course you're right. Anything can fail over time. It's not the build quality of M-lenses or even the continued existence of the M-mount I was referring to. I also until recently used a C/Y 50/1.7 which shares neither of those benefits. And my beloved Leica R's have only the former.
My thing is about reliance on electronic protocols and firmware updates. Fuji has to update its existing lenses for every new body; how long do you think they'll keep that up? A purely mechanical lens is much more likely to be able to be kept functional, particularly after its native mount retires or sees its protocols changed.
You may be right about the thermal expansion aspect, I'd never heard that.
PS - Sorry to those of you who have heard me say that 50 times (it's kind of a personal pet issue).
p.42 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
greenaa wrote:
You do realise that an H series lens with adapter will be SIGNIFICANTLY longer than an XCD lens? What's the point of purposely creating an SL style weight and size mismatch?
At least some of the H and V lenses are at least somewhat wider-aperture than the XCD lenses.
For someone like me who is interested in mirrorless 100% to eliminate mirror slap and optical viewfinder misalignment and 0% for less size and weight, that's worth considering.
Steve cares more than me about the size/weight thing, though, so I bet he'll have a different answer.
p.42 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
At least some of the H and V lenses are at least somewhat wider-aperture than the XCD lenses.
For someone like me who is interested in mirrorless 100% to eliminate mirror slap and optical viewfinder misalignment and 0% for less size and weight, that's worth considering.
Steve cares more than me about the size/weight thing, though, so I bet he'll have a different answer.
Hi Lee,
Hopefully we will have a bit of better weather here shortly. My next 3 Leica R lenses to test on my A7r with my Cambo Actus to check the coverage will probably be my Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit, Leica R f4 Macro Elmar Bellows, and my Leica R f2.8 Elmarit V2 lenses. Though unless Hasselblad comes up with a usable electronic shutter this will only be of value for the new Fujifilm camera.
Also, if you missed it, I confirmed above that my Leica R 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens covers the new 33mm X 44mm sensor size.
