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Archive 2016 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless

  
 
Phillip Reeve
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p.40 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


alba63 wrote:
BTW, did you now permanently switch to a7II?

Yes, I have switched. My a7's display turns black at most angles now so I bought an a7II shortly before the price increase here. It was a lot of money to me but since Sony has gone crazy with the prices of their new releases I feel that it was the right decision.



Oct 30, 2016 at 05:37 AM
alba63
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p.40 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Oh, good to hear. I mean few people have been so prolific with their A7 1 as you were :-) But seen how many manual lenses you use, the IBIS may be useful.

I personally never "need" the high resolution of my a7rII, but I love the big viewfinder, the IBIS, the uncomplicated sensor (color shifts).
But not only Sony has gone crazy with their prices - all brands have. Look at the new EOS 5dIV or the latest Nikon lenses (70-200/ 18mm shift), those are all extremely expensive. The market has become more difficult (sales numbers) and only the higher margins of high end models can proably save the manufacturers.



Oct 30, 2016 at 05:53 AM
zephoto
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p.40 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Happy to provide some input.

I did not notice a massive delay after the shot, no. I did notice that once you lock onto focus and ask for the shot there is a slight pause (sometimes) before hearing the shutter actuation for whatever reason until the camera was ready to go if you will. Again I'm leaning towards the firmware being tweaked a bit. Just look at all the changes to the A7 series about start up delay and speed of use. On that note, I did power off and on the camera and it actually booted fairly quickly. On a cold battery on my A7 it's a similar start.

And yes regrading the different lenses if there are 5 new ones on the way for next year it would be a good idea to wait and see what comes out. I know that the mention of a zoom is coming but who knows beyond that. My guesses: a zoom, a macro, a longer prime, a larger aperture of some kind for bokeh-heads and who knows on the 5th. Just my guess.

I really think, considering this is all new territory for the company/industry, their product offering so far is excellent. Let's see where the system goes.




Oct 30, 2016 at 10:12 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.40 #4 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


zephoto wrote:
Happy to provide some input.

I did not notice a massive delay after the shot, no. I did notice that once you lock onto focus and ask for the shot there is a slight pause (sometimes) before hearing the shutter actuation for whatever reason until the camera was ready to go if you will. Again I'm leaning towards the firmware being tweaked a bit. Just look at all the changes to the A7 series about start up delay and speed of use. On that note, I did power off and on the camera and it actually booted fairly quickly. On a
...Show more

Thanks for the extra info. I am a lot less worried about AF, as I will use MF most of the time. Can you comment on the MF with the XCD lenses or did you just use AF? My best guesses for the lenses would be a 70mm f/2.8, a 35mm f/3.5, a 25mm f/5, the 135 f/2.8, and a zoom maybe a 35-70 f/4-5.6. These are of course just guesses and a wide aperture lens and a macro would make a lot of sense, but they would be a lot bigger and these they could keep pretty small which is something I think they will want to do.



Oct 30, 2016 at 10:35 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.40 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Zephoto,
How was the balance between camera and lenses?



Oct 30, 2016 at 01:29 PM
zephoto
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p.40 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


I did try auto focus and manual. They mentioned that MF will have focus peaking and currently there was a bit of an issue on the MF zoom. You'd have to tap the back screen to pick your spot which it zooms in on as you turn the focus ring. I asked for it to be centered as it was zooming in the far bottom right so you'd have to tap the center. I am hoping that this can be locked on the center and/or disabled only for use when necessary like the A7 via a button press. Again, firmware updates could solve this or perhaps it is somewhere in the menus--I did not investigate.

The balance was excellent. The body definitely has some heft to it but I didn't feel any were lens heavy. My A7 w/ no grip + Batis 25 or 85 it feels a bit lens heavy so using that as a reference I'd say it is better. Putting the grip on creates more balance.

Holding the sculpted grip of the X1D it just feels right. It's hard to describe and I think it is due to the front/rear grip design vs just a front grip on Sony cameras. Whoever designed the grip gets a thumbs up because it also then allows for a massive battery.




Oct 30, 2016 at 04:30 PM
adamdewilde
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p.40 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Ok, so I had a chance to play with the X1D. Some random thoughts:

The AF-S with a non-moving subject is perfectly acceptable. A Moving subject forget about it. And the EVF isn't as good as the SL, which means it's less easy to get your subject in critical focus while manual focusing. The manual focus feeling from the lenses is FAR FAR better than anything from Leica T or Leica SL though, and better then Fuji too. The lenses are small the camera feels extremely good in hand and the interface is good. I could hold this camera all day and night and all the next day and be fine. Perfect size, far better than A7 series and SL (weight is also right w/lenses). The Touch screen is pretty responsive. The shot to shot speed is bad, and the review speed is bad. The EVF black out is really bad too. Focusing accuracy isn't to bad, and speed again is not bad with static subjects. As far as IQ is concern, I really don't see anything special with the 45 or 90 lenses. Leica's S-series lenses (45 and 100) offer a far better rendering/look feel etc. But are bigger and on an S-006 slower. On an S-007 just a fraction slower at worst to almost on par. Personally, I feel thats where Leica shines and Hassy really doesn't in this instance. It's funny because Hassy really got the ergonomics down this round. Really phenomenal camera to actually hold and use (quirks aside). Almost to the point where I wished they had given it a faster processor and better EVF and just charged more for the damn thing. It would have been near perfect then. Well that and if they had better lenses :P - And yes, I've owned a TON of Hassy glass that I've liked/enjoyed.. I just don't like/enjoy these lenses as much as others I've used (namely Leica S/M glass). The startup time to shoot is TERRIBLE still. And apparently the camera was just updated with the latest firmware Hassy has. Although they're still not happy with it from what I hear. And won't stop till it's a better camera.

After playing with the camera, I'm left feeling like I shouldn't have bought a SL but rather should have bought the X1D. Partly because I'm not happy with the SL, and partly because they were relatively the same price at the end of the day (SL+Zoom vs X1D+45+90). However if I have to be completely honest, I'd say that unless you KNOW you need a medium format sensor (mini-MFD), you are better off with any other camera that fits your needs save the fact that it's medium format. Though this X1D would be killer for travel with just two lenses (45/90) if they were more to my liking. I feel I'm better off traveling with an M plus choice M glass or a A7rII and a few good sony or other lenses. Even though the X1D looks far cooler then the A7 series cameras.
So while I'd love to own the special edition ALL BLACK X1D. I'll probably pass because really it's a first gen product (feels as such) and the lenses just don't do it for me. I know what I like, and I don't see it in these XD lenses (I'm not a landscape shooter). And lastly I suppose, although I have an appreciation for medium format from my time with Contax/Hassy/Phase/Leica-S (both film and digital), I just don't feel I need medium format to accomplish what I set out to accomplish day in and day out. And thus far no company has made hassle free medium format. I'm waiting on Fuji.. But still as it stands, if I'm going to do medium format, I'll do it with a S-006 and a few S-lenses. I'm much happier with the S-006 sensor then any other on the market (I just hate that my kit broke down more than it worked).

Shame about the X1D and my feelings towards the lenses, because it looks/feels beautiful. And it was obviously VERY well thought out. It's just not the tool for me for the way I like to shoot, and the rendering I like to see in my images.



Nov 10, 2016 at 12:39 AM
adamdewilde
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p.40 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Phillip Reeve wrote:
In a German forum someone reported a 3-4 seconds blackout after the image is taken. Can you confirm that?


With latest firmware maybe 2+ seconds, not 4 seconds.

Edited on Nov 10, 2016 at 12:51 AM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2016 at 12:47 AM
adamdewilde
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p.40 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Phillip Reeve wrote:
I don't know him well but I am always skeptical when people have as good access as Ming Thein to early production models and a very good relationship with a manufacturer. I would trust an independent forum member a lot more on this issue



I have nothing good to say about Ming. So I'll just say that the A7RII is a far more responsive camera. FAR FAR MORE.



Nov 10, 2016 at 12:50 AM
cmarker
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p.40 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Thanks Adam for your review. I have been on the fence about the X1D or getting a used Leica S (typ 007). The Leica glass has always been appealing to me. MF is a new world to me, so your information is quite helpful.


Nov 10, 2016 at 08:24 AM
naturephoto1
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p.40 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


When I was at Photo Plus on October 20, I handled the camera for a few minutes It had quite a bit of heft to it. I was told that Hasselblad hoped to have the issues with the camera ironed out in November. There had been many more cameras ordered than they had anticipated.

Also, when at Photo Plus, I stopped by the Fujifilm booth and the new Fuji camera (several bodies) was on display in two locked cases. The camera was not available for handling. Justin Stailey of Fujifilm (whom I have known for years) indicated that the camera was still only in concept and it was not completed, but would be available in 2017. They had several lenses with the camera which were designed for the camera. When asked, Justin confirmed that the camera was designed as an open system (like the Sony A7 system) and not a closed system as is the case with the new Hassleblad. Also, the new Fuji camera does not look really that large though it is deeper than the Hasselblad. Finally, Fuji is considering or expecting to release some lenses with a leaf shutter for those interested and requiring high speed flash sync.

Rich

Edited on Nov 10, 2016 at 02:08 PM · View previous versions



Nov 10, 2016 at 09:51 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.40 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


adamdewilde wrote:
Ok, so I had a chance to play with the X1D. Some random thoughts:

The AF-S with a non-moving subject is perfectly acceptable. A Moving subject forget about it. And the EVF isn't as good as the SL, which means it's less easy to get your subject in critical focus while manual focusing. The manual focus feeling from the lenses is FAR FAR better than anything from Leica T or Leica SL though, and better then Fuji too. The lenses are small the camera feels extremely good in hand and the interface is good. I could hold this camera all day
...Show more

Adam, which Hassy glass have you liked? What do you think of the HC 100 f/2.2 or the HC 150 f/3.2, if you have used them. Is it the relatively slow aperture of the 45 and 90 that you don't like or is there something else about the way they draw? I was thinking of the 45 and 90 mostly for landscapes, but I am thinking of the 100 f/2.2 and the 150 f/3.2 for narrower depth of field shooting.



Nov 10, 2016 at 01:38 PM
adamdewilde
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p.40 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
Adam, which Hassy glass have you liked? What do you think of the HC 100 f/2.2 or the HC 150 f/3.2, if you have used them. Is it the relatively slow aperture of the 45 and 90 that you don't like or is there something else about the way they draw? I was thinking of the 45 and 90 mostly for landscapes, but I am thinking of the 100 f/2.2 and the 150 f/3.2 for narrower depth of field shooting.


Hi Steve,

Shooting mainly portraits and weddings with the odd product or interior or editorial shoot.. I really have no experience with testing lenses for landscapes. Nor do I have interest in shooting anything further then I could toss the X1D. So my opinions may be bias and limited in what one would use the X1D for.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's the DOF. As strangely enough all the samples I took had sufficiently narrow DOF (narrower aperture was my initial concern). So I was pleasantly surprised, but not really surprised because it's medium format. I think it's a combination of a few things.
First, I'd like to say that the Leica 45S is the most medium format looking medium format lens I've ever used. I don't really know how to describe it, but it really pushes the idea of the medium format look. The 45XD lens seemed the opposite. It had a decent amount of 3D rendering, and despite the small aperture and wide FOV had good subject separation (sensor size has a lot to do with it). But it just felt really flat. Like FF flat. Nothing special from the 45XD that I couldn't get with a number of good 35 FOV lenses on 35mm. In fact, I find myself asking why I wouldn't just use a 35FLE or a 35/1.4ZM whereas with the Leica 45S, I knew why I was carrying around a big system.

The 90XD suffers from a similar feeling I get. It's fall off is very quick but not abrupt, which I would assume comes from the format. But overall nothing I couldn't get out of a good f/2 portrait lens. It's not mushy like most f/1.4s from FF cameras. And doesn't have the abruptness of the 85GM. It's more similar to the way a 75APO renders on FF, but the 90XD is lacking the contrast and color pop (contrast issues might be due to the sensors super wide DR). Also I feel as if the bokeh suffers somehow from the leaf shutter lenses. Fully open the bokeh balls are not round. They have a very strange shape to them. This could be a malfunction of sorts, but from multiple shots taken wide open and stopped down. I can see this asymmetrical bokeh that looks geometric and is very distracting. I actually don't mind the 90XD to much. I think I could get along with it just fine. But given all the other quirks and the fact that I don't really feel the medium-format-ness, I'm left wondering why I don't just stick with a number of great FF options. The leaf-shutter ability was a smart move, but lack of shutter was a terrible move. The Nikon TTL tie-in was super smart, and if it is fully compatible with Nikon flashes in every way, as well as third party options (Profoto) then SMART.


I was a big fan of the 100/2.2 the way it rendered was very clean, but with character. It felt medium format, especially the bokeh, it just looked medium format and the rendering again was clean and the colors the lens produces are vivid. I mention this lens because it's almost a direct comparison to the 90XD in FL.
I liked a lot of HC lenses, mostly older hassy/zeiss lenses though. The standouts of the HC line being the 50-110/100/150. Honestly the 100 could have satisfied me as far as a one lens kit was concern if I had a proper full frame MF camera rather then a variation of full frame MF. Strange though, as the zoom wasn't fast by any means, and not portable and gave me problems (resting it upside down made an element loose/fall out. I never had this problem, but I hear it was quite the issue). BUT it had a pretty neat rendering in backlit situations.

Nothing really BREAKS it for me. I've just been burnt by Leica lust to much.. So I'm quite hesitant to just jump on something blind and then figure it out later. Just to reiterate my earlier thoughts, I love the camera in hand. I find the size of both lenses and body to be perfect. The look is amazing (of the actual camera/lenses) and I find that in a style sense I'd take the X1D over the GFX any day. I also like the interface and want to stress that looking through the viewfinder and in actual use, I like the layout/setup of the X1D way better then the SL or A7 series. I just find the EVF to be subpar compared to the SL.
IF I decide to go back to MFD, I would want to do my due diligence before buying into a MFD system. I'll wait for the GFX to hit the market, and I'll compare both cameras on the basis of complete systems (as in, cameras w/various available lenses). And would most likely pick on that basis. Because as it stands now, I can just use an M if I want to be stylish and for the way I shoot, I won't be giving up much. That or of course just stick with my SL kit if it doesn't sell (I've reviewed the 50SL on my site, it's not what I was hoping for, but it's good enough to cause me to use the SL more).



Nov 10, 2016 at 05:42 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.40 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


adamdewilde wrote:
Hi Steve,

Shooting mainly portraits and weddings with the odd product or interior or editorial shoot.. I really have no experience with testing lenses for landscapes. Nor do I have interest in shooting anything further then I could toss the X1D. So my opinions may be bias and limited in what one would use the X1D for.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's the DOF. As strangely enough all the samples I took had sufficiently narrow DOF (narrower aperture was my initial concern). So I was pleasantly surprised, but not really surprised because it's medium format. I think
...Show more

Thanks Adam this is very helpful. For my use I think I will probably be more happy with the system. I think for portraits I will be reasonably happy with the HC 100 and 150, and I will use the XCD 45 and 90 primarily for landscapes, so I think I may like them better. I still don't know what I will use for travel, but I will likely stick with the Sony A7r II and Leica M lenses. I really like the WATE, the 28 Lux, and the 90 cron AA, and I think I will add a 50 cron AA and that four lens kit will be quite versatile, but small and high quality for travel. I would love for someone to make an adapter for the Leica S lenses, for the X1D, but I won't hold my breath. It should be technically possible for the Leaf shutter lenses, but I doubt anyone will think it is worth it to make the adapter. The market would have to be quite small. Still, I think the HC lenses will fill out the system well enough for me to be happy, but I would love to add a Leica S lens or two.



Nov 11, 2016 at 01:04 AM
adamdewilde
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p.40 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
I really like the WATE, the 28 Lux, and the 90 cron AA, and I think I will add a 50 cron AA


With the above mentioned lenses and an A7rII, I think you'll be able to hold off on the X1D for a while. At least until tons of reviews come online and a lot of samples are shared. I'd even hold off until I've seen the GFX in action. Since it seems the X1D won't be widely available until next year anyway. Although I know three people who already have the system!!



Nov 11, 2016 at 04:31 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.40 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


adamdewilde wrote:
With the above mentioned lenses and an A7rII, I think you'll be able to hold off on the X1D for a while. At least until tons of reviews come online and a lot of samples are shared. I'd even hold off until I've seen the GFX in action. Since it seems the X1D won't be widely available until next year anyway. Although I know three people who already have the system!!


This would be the sensible thing to do, but I don't think I will be sensible in this case. I think I will stick with my X1D preorder and will probably get the camera in January or February. I also have the 30, 45, and 90 on preorder. Those plus the HC 24, 100, 150, and 300 will make a very complete kit that wouldn't be available for the Fuji for I would guess at least a year and a half. Fuji has the distinct advantage of being able to use a lot more adapted lenses, so I am still intrigued by it. At this point I can wait on my pre-order because it gives me more time to decide what to do. When that pre-order comes in I will make a final decision but I don't think I will wait until the Fuji actually comes out.



Nov 13, 2016 at 09:30 AM
naturephoto1
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p.40 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
This would be the sensible thing to do, but I don't think I will be sensible in this case. I think I will stick with my X1D preorder and will probably get the camera in January or February. I also have the 30, 45, and 90 on preorder. Those plus the HC 24, 100, 150, and 300 will make a very complete kit that wouldn't be available for the Fuji for I would guess at least a year and a half. Fuji has the distinct advantage of being able to use a lot more adapted lenses, so I am
...Show more

Hi Steve,

If adaptability is of any issue (using other maker's lenses), then I would wait for the to be released Fujifilm camera which will be an open system and providing a maker or someone custom makes adapters, you will be able to use many Leica R, as well as probably Leica S, and many other MF lenses from other makers (including Hasselblad, Mamiya, Pentax, Contax) as well as probably some Canon and Nikon lenses that will cover the format. But, is all up to you and how long you can wait.

Rich



Nov 13, 2016 at 09:49 AM
Daan B
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p.40 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless



adamdewilde wrote:
Since it seems the X1D won't be widely available until next year anyway. Although I know three people who already have the system!!


Thats funny... the dutch importer has a roadshow atm using demo x1ds that arent fully operational. Some things like tap to focus still need further adjustments in the fw. It is expected that fully operational cameras will start to ship begin 2017... I wonder what system these three people have..



Nov 13, 2016 at 11:53 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.40 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Steve,

If adaptability is of any issue (using other maker's lenses), then I would wait for the to be released Fujifilm camera which will be an open system and providing a maker or someone custom makes adapters, you will be able to use many Leica R, as well as probably Leica S, and many other MF lenses from other makers (including Hasselblad, Mamiya, Pentax, Contax) as well as probably some Canon and Nikon lenses that will cover the format. But, is all up to you and how long you can wait.

Rich

Hi Rich,

You have any idea what Leica R lenses would cover this format? I would be particularly interested in whether the Leica R 280 f/4 APO telyt would cover this sensor as I am not sure what long lenses I would use with the Fuji and that lens plus the 2X APO converter would handle my long lens needs nicely if it has a wide enough image circle. I'm not at all sure Hassy HC lenses will be available for this system. They are all leaf shutter and I would imagine that Hassy won't cooperate with anyone doing a converter since they have the X1D. Older Hassy MF lenses will be very likely to work, however. I don't think Leica S lenses will work with this system either, but I have good hope for Mamiya lenses and even the newer ones and the Leaf shutter lenses. If I was Phase One, I could think of the Fuji camera as a gateway to get some people into medium format so cooperating with Fuji could make sense to them. If the Leica R 280 f/4 APO and Mamiya lenses worked I could imagine this very nice kit that would at least equal the Hassy kit I was thinking about: new Fuji 23 f/4.5, Mamiya 645AF 28 f/3.5; new Fuji 45 f/2.8; Mamiya SK 645AF 80 f/2.8 LS; new Fuji 110 f/2; Mamiya 645AF 150 f/2.8; Leica R 280 f/4 APO tele; Leica R 280 f/4 APO tele plus 2X APO converter; Mamiya 645 120 f/4 APO Macro. Now if I could be sure all of that would work, then I would probably go with Fuji, but that is still very much up in the air.



Nov 13, 2016 at 12:08 PM
naturephoto1
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p.40 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Rich,

You have any idea what Leica R lenses would cover this format? I would be particularly interested in whether the Leica R 280 f/4 APO telyt would cover this sensor as I am not sure what long lenses I would use with the Fuji and that lens plus the 2X APO converter would handle my long lens needs nicely if it has a wide enough image circle. I'm not at all sure Hassy HC lenses will be available for this system. They are all leaf shutter and I would imagine that Hassy won't cooperate with anyone doing a
...Show more

Hi Steve,

I will need to run some tests with my Cambo Actus and using shift to test some of my lenses that I believe will cover, but I do not believe that I will be able to check lenses longer than 100mm or possibly 180mm in focal length due to not having sufficient bellows length to check these lenses. From what I have been able to ascertain on line, the Leica R 28mm f2.8 V2 Elmarit just about covers the format. I will check my copy of this. I know from doing testing that my Leica R 28mm f2.8 Super Angulon PC (Schneider PC lens) easily covers the format as it is a shift lens. I will also check my Leica R 35mm-70mm f4 Vario Elmar, and at least as far as I can focus with my Leica R 80-200mm f4 Vario Elmar lens. I have run some tests for focus, but will confirm the coverage of my Leica R Macro Elmar f 4 Bellows lens. I will also check my Leica R 50mm f2.0 Summicron and my Leica R 60mm f2.8 Macro Elmarit lenses. Additionally, though not recommended by Leica to have any air space behind my 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit lens, I will test it as well. If I can focus my 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens by a combination of the bellows and the lens helicoid I will also check it. If I can focus the 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lens then I will also try my 280mm f4 Apo Telyt naked as well as with the 1.4X and 2X Apo extenders. But, I suspect that I will be unable to confirm the 280mm and quite possibly the 180mm as well. If possible, I will try to test the coverage of the mentioned lenses later in the week.

Rich



Nov 13, 2016 at 12:32 PM
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