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Archive 2016 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless

  
 
philber
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p.33 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve, you make a strong case, and I agree completely that the Hassy is targeted at people like you, as a valid alternative to Leica SL.
That said, my 2 question marks remain, so i'll wait it out a bit longer.



Jun 30, 2016 at 12:41 AM
flash
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p.33 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


mawz wrote:
My guess would be same mount. Just like their 645 system was the same as the H1.

Fuji & Hasselblad have a long history of collaboration.


Hasselblad have clearly stated that this is not a collaboration with Fuji.

Gordon



Jun 30, 2016 at 01:30 AM
Alexluu627
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p.33 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Man I hope these new medium format cameras make the bigger cameras way cheaper. I don't know about you guys, but I'm loving bigger cameras right now. I haven't picked up my Sony a7r ii for a while and have been shooting with just my phase one for most of my work now. Holding a big heavy camera is just fun and just the build quality just makes me appreciate it a lot more. Maybe when the Sony a9 with a bigger body comes out I'll be content.


Jun 30, 2016 at 04:21 AM
hauxon
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p.33 #4 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Are there any news on adapters for older lenses? Should in theory be able to adapt almost any lens except maybe Mamiya 7 and 6 lenses.


Jun 30, 2016 at 05:27 AM
chez
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p.33 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Alexluu627 wrote:
Man I hope these new medium format cameras make the bigger cameras way cheaper. I don't know about you guys, but I'm loving bigger cameras right now. I haven't picked up my Sony a7r ii for a while and have been shooting with just my phase one for most of my work now. Holding a big heavy camera is just fun and just the build quality just makes me appreciate it a lot more. Maybe when the Sony a9 with a bigger body comes out I'll be content.


Big is great until you need to lug it around for 3 weeks...where the A7R shines. I find no fun lugging extra weight.



Jun 30, 2016 at 05:31 AM
Matt Grum
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p.33 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless




Alexluu627 wrote:
Man I hope these new medium format cameras make the bigger cameras way cheaper. I don't know about you guys, but I'm loving bigger cameras right now. I haven't picked up my Sony a7r ii for a while


Quite the opposite, I'm loving my A7RII, and dislike it when I have to pick up a DSLR to shoot. In 2011 I went round Italy with a 1DIV and a 5D, with a bunch of L lenses (including the 85L), tripod. Now I think I must have been mad, on a recent trip I brought the much lighter Baits 85 along with me but left it in the hotel to save weight.

I don't know what happened as I'm not much older or less for than then but at some point the weight started bothering me. Now I will only tolerate more weight if it brings significant benefits in quality.



Jun 30, 2016 at 06:13 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.33 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


philber wrote:
Steve, you make a strong case, and I agree completely that the Hassy is targeted at people like you, as a valid alternative to Leica SL.
That said, my 2 question marks remain, so i'll wait it out a bit longer.


I am an odd duck in many ways, but there are two features that really mattered to me in getting a camera to supplement the Sony A7 series. I wanted a camera that was a bit bigger. I have very big hands and at times I want a slightly bigger camera as it is more comfortable and I wanted a good EVF. The Leica SL fit this bill very well (right size and excellent EVF) and it let me keep a small system if I used M glass. Still there were some very significant compromises with the SL. Primarily the sensor doesn't even quite match the A7 II sensor, although it is close. A second compromise is more subtle, but really boils down to the SL not adding all that much beyond the size and EVF over the A7rII. The two cameras are largely redundant for my shooting.The SL largely let me shoot some lenses that can't be shot well on the A7rII, but if I modified an A7r II I could save money and have a better sensor, so it really boiled down to the larger camera and the better EVF being the primary advantage. For some the SL still may makes sense because it shoots at a much higher frame rate and delivers fast single shot AF, but these things matter little to me.

Now comes along the Hassy X1D. It seems to satisfy the size criteria that I want, but I need to confirm that before I make a final commitment to the camera. The EVF does not look as good as the SL which is a bit of a bummer, but I am hoping it is as good as the A7r II--bad EVF performance could still kill this camera for me. If those two hurdles are passed what the X1D delivers is a true complement to the A7rII. It is great in areas where the A7r II is weak. Long exposure shots are a definite weakness of the A7rII and a clear strength of the X1D. The leaf shutters in the lens and the Nikon hotshot (I use Nikon flashes) will make the X1D way better for my flash needs. I also prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio especially for portraits, and the sensor is probably the only one out there in an all in one camera that actually is a bit better than the sensor in the A7r II. So although the A7rII does everything quite well in a great small package, the X1D shores up the few areas it has weaknesses for my type of shooting. Now if I shot a lot of wildlife and sports I would probably want a different camera to shore up different weaknesses in the A7rII, but I don't.

So for me this fits. Will the system thrive? I don't know. Hasselblad may go out of business and even if they don't the X system may bomb. For me, however, I will keep this camera for four or five years. It is already a good system for what I would like to use it for. I don't need more development. If it bombs, then I still have a migration path to Leica S. In 5 years I ought to be able to afford the model that replaces the S007. The S008 or whatever they call it should be one generation old at that point and it should have about a 50 MP CMOS sensor (maybe 60 MP). It might even be mirrorless with the excellent EVF from the SL--I would hope for that but many S users would choke on that. I would probably lose the functionality of the XCD lenses, but I could pick up an S 35 f/2.5 and 75 f/2.5 and be more than happy, and the rest of the H lenses I could use with the Leica S and that would make a workable mini MF kit. Don't get me wrong. I hope that Hassy and this new X system succeeds. I love the small size, the excellent sensor, and the 4:3 ratio and I would expect those to continue if it succeeds, but even if it doesn't a future Leica S system paired with a smaller FF 35mm kit would suit my needs quite well.

Will a cheaper mini MF system emerge? I have my doubts. First, the Pentax 645 system, once you look at the whole system really isn't that much cheaper than the kit I am talking about here. Depending on what lenses you get for what bargains and how you deal with the holes in the Pentax system--which are important to me--the price for a Pentax system is only about 10% less. So, I have a clear preference for the Hassy X system over Pentax, but even Pentax which can draw on older used 645 lenses doesn't save you all that much money. Who would come up with a cheaper system? Fuji? The may well announce a mini MF system at Photokina, but if they do I don't expect it to be available until Spring 2017--even the rumours don't seem to be more optimistic than that. And If they do, I think we can only expect 3 lenses--my bet is a 35mm, a 70mm, and a 120mm macro. This would match their strategy for their APS-C launch. It is also likely to be another 3 years before they would have the full set of lenses that I would like. In particular I would like an ultra wide angle, a fast portrait lens, and a longer telephoto lens. For my needs we would be talking about a 3 and half year wait. I think the Fuji may come out with a mini MF system and it may even be cheaper than the Hassy X system (I doubt it will be by much, however, because the supplementary H lenses I have chosen are likely to be as cheap as the new Fuji lenses and I doubt Fuji will undercut the XCD lenses by much either), but it seems for my needs which are for a mini MF kit the time to consider Fuji would be in 4 to 5 years when I upgrade the system. I doubt I would pick Fuji over Hassy at that point, but of course if Hassy goes under having Fuji as another possible system (if they don't go under) would be a plus.

Will Sony make a mini MF system? I actually doubt it, as I think the market is too small, but if they do I see exactly the same issues as with Fuji. It will take them too long to have the full kit that I want to be a consideration now. In 4 or 5 years if they make it, if it is good, and if it is cheaper I would love to have a Sony option, but that is a lot of ifs. What about Phase? They could make a mirrorless mini MF, but even if they do I can't see it being cheaper than the Hassy X system. So, I am pretty confident that for my needs if I get the Hassy X system a cheaper *system* won't be available until I think about upgrading the X system. Then I certainly hope other systems are available as I think that competition would be great for the market. I am just not sure the market is big enough to attract that type of competition.



Jun 30, 2016 at 06:14 AM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve good thinking here. I agree if anybody else announces we won't see it on the streets for awhile. I doubt very highly Hassy will go under that prediction was around for awhile and they came close but they seem to be bouncing back. I also believe this is there life jacket so they are going to put everything into the effort of making it, they know the big modular systems are starting to fade. Phase could do it but again it's getting lenses made quickly. One other good thing this will become a collectors piece so I doubt anyone that buys is going to take a bath on it. For me this is my ticket back to MF which I really did love. I would still be shooting it but I had a personal issue with my wife's health to deal with. So I'm trying to figure it all out. So far it sounds like what I want and I already know what it should be able to do and not do. I wish you luck on it and please keep us posted


Jun 30, 2016 at 07:40 AM
arduluth
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p.33 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Alexluu627 wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I'm loving bigger cameras right now. (...) Holding a big heavy camera is just fun and just the build quality just makes me appreciate it a lot more. Maybe when the Sony a9 with a bigger body comes out I'll be content.


Totally the opposite. I've been shooting a Contax G1 lately. It's not much smaller, but not having an EVF hump makes a difference. I miss having a camera that is small enough to stuff in my back pocket, which I can do with the G1 with the 28mm and 45mm. I've also taken out my NEX 5R for the first time in months for that same reason. Same lenses as I'm using on the A7, but I was able to put it in my pocket sideways.

Similar situation with MF. Really enjoy using the Fujica G690BL but I take out my smaller Yashica-Mat TLR more, mostly because it's quite a bit lighter and feels smaller.



Jun 30, 2016 at 07:58 AM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


See if this comes out okay

Sensor type CMOS, 50 megapixels (8272 × 6200 pixels, 5.3 × 5.3 μm)
Sensor dimensions 43.8 × 32.9mm
Image size Stills: RAW 3FR capture 65MB on average. TIFF 8 bit: 154MB; Video: HD (1920 x 1080p)
File format Stills: Lossless compressed Hasselblad 3FR RAW + JPEG
Video: H.264 Compressed (25 fps)
Shooting mode Single shot stills, Video
Colour definition 16 bit; Dynamic range up to 14 stops
ISO speed range ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12800 & 25600
Storage options Dual SD card slots
Colour management Hasselblad Natural Colour Solution
Storage capacity 16GB card holds 240 images on average
Capture rate 1.7 - 2.3 frames per second
Display 3.0 inch TFT type, 24 bit colour, 920K pixels; Touch functionality: Yes, full support Live View: On camera, host and iOS device with high frame rate (30 fps)
Histogram feedback Yes (on rear display)
IR filter Mounted in front of sensor
Acoustic feedback Yes
Software Phocus for Mac and Windows. Compatible with Adobe Photoshop Lightroom® and Adobe Camera Raw®
Platform support Macintosh: OSX version 10.10; PC: Windows 7 / 8 / 10 (64 bit only)
Host connection type USB 3.0 (5 Gbit/s) Type-C connector
Additional connections Mini HDMI, Audio In/Out
Operating temperature - 10 ̊C to + 45 ̊C / 14 – 113 ̊F
Wi-Fi & GPS 802.11a, b, g, n, ac (depending on region)
Dimensions Camera Body only: 150 x 98 x 71 mm
Weight 725g (Camera Body and Li-ion battery)
Camera type Mirrorless Large Sensor Medium Format
Lenses Hasselblad XCD lenses with integral lens shutter
Shutter speed range 60 minutes to 1/2000 sec with XCD Lenses
Flash sync speed Flash can be used at all shutter speeds
Viewfinder 2.36MP XGA Electronic Viewfinder
Focusing Autofocus metering via contrast detection; Instant manual focus override
Flash control Automatic TTL centre weighted system. Nikon™ compatible hotshoe
Output can be adjusted from -3.0 to +3.0 EV
Exposure metering Spot, Centre Weighted and CentreSpot
Power supply Rechargeable Li-ion battery (7.2 VDC/3200 mAh)
Demo request
Get your hands on a Hasselblad



Jun 30, 2016 at 08:10 AM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


I'm going to download Phocus first see if it handles Sony cams and see if I can get some H6D raws to play with. Anyone have some that be great. Don't have to be great shots just want to process

For me this part is tough since I can't use C1.



Jun 30, 2016 at 08:13 AM
Alexluu627
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p.33 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


That's exactly why I probably won't buy this camera. Capture one to me is just a absolute must for all my portrait and fashion work. I feel naked just opening a file in Lightroom or acr these days.

GMPhotography wrote:
I'm going to download Phocus first see if it handles Sony cams and see if I can get some H6D raws to play with. Anyone have some that be great. Don't have to be great shots just want to process

For me this part is tough since I can't use C1.




Jun 30, 2016 at 09:54 AM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Totally understand as I never use LR or ACR. I'm a dead in the wool C1 guy. So it maybe a no go out of the gate if Phocus won't work for me. So I got to work with it before any commitment


Jun 30, 2016 at 10:10 AM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


On zoom lenses there is a correction from the CEO

Let me correct that a little bit…there will be more lenses coming.” said the CEO. “There will be also zoom lenses coming. So that is something we have to correct.”



Jun 30, 2016 at 10:23 AM
freaklikeme
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p.33 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


hauxon wrote:
Are there any news on adapters for older lenses? Should in theory be able to adapt almost any lens except maybe Mamiya 7 and 6 lenses.


All indications right now point to Hassy only allowing X and H lenses. With no focal plane or electronic shutter and no indication there will be a sync port capable of triggering third party shutters, adaptation prospects aren't good.



Jun 30, 2016 at 12:34 PM
taran
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p.33 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
Will a cheaper mini MF system emerge? I have my doubts.


I think you are quite right to point this out.

Only Sony can sanction new MF systems for at least the next 5 years, since they are the only company producing a CMOS>135 format sensor. The MF partnership with Hasselblad essentially means 3 things.

1) Sony knocks off and undercuts price of Leica S offerings via Hassy.
2) Sony won't be introducing a medium format system of its own for at least 3 years, because they can do so by proxy via Hassleblad and determine if there is such a market, without having to worry about supporting a new mount, which they cannot currently.
3) Any new/creative system that Leica announces, Sony can knock that off via Hassy.

Smart move by Sony.



Jun 30, 2016 at 01:20 PM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


I honestly do not have a issue with this. First Hassy makes fabulous lenses but I woul like to know what MF lenses you would adapt. Very few 35 lenses with cover the image circle to start with so 95 percent of what we all own combined would not work. MF if there is any lenses from the pool of them is maybe some Schneider glass . Phase lenses are pretty equal to Hassy or let's say no advantage I shot most of them some really nice ones but so are Hassy. Leica S glass may just have a image circle issue as well. Pentax not any better than Hassy. So I'm not so sure what would be worth it outside H glass itself. Frankly I rather without IBIS have a leaf shutter to kill vibrations maybe I'm missing something on this need fo FP because either it's a image circle issue or not any better than Hassys H line. And no tech cam lenses are out too. But you could use a Actus DB and use tech cam lenses but have to see how you can sync that.


Jun 30, 2016 at 01:26 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.33 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


freaklikeme wrote:
All indications right now point to Hassy only allowing X and H lenses. With no focal plane or electronic shutter and no indication there will be a sync port capable of triggering third party shutters, adaptation prospects aren't good.


After looking at the expensive Hasselblad made CF adapter for H cameras you pointed out earlier, I noticed that the adapter itself has the sync port built into it. Perhaps it would be possible for a third party to do something similar for leaf shutter lenses down the road.




Jun 30, 2016 at 03:55 PM
flash
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p.33 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


taran wrote:
I think you are quite right to point this out.

Only Sony can sanction new MF systems for at least the next 5 years, since they are the only company producing a CMOS>135 format sensor. The MF partnership with Hasselblad essentially means 3 things.

1) Sony knocks off and undercuts price of Leica S offerings via Hassy.
2) Sony won't be introducing a medium format system of its own for at least 3 years, because they can do so by proxy via Hassleblad and determine if there is such a market, without having to worry about supporting a new mount, which they
...Show more

You meant that no one make a CMOS>135 except Sony and the one for Leica, right? Sony don't make the sensor in the S007.

I don't think Leica are the market Hasselblad are after. Leica has a full range of lenses. It's a 3:2 ratio sensor. It has tethering, grips and lens adaptors for other systems. The SL (which is in the price range of the H) has zooms, adapts a bunch of lenses and revolves around it's speedy operation and processing power.

Leica seem to be quite happy doing their own thing, with little regard for anyone else. It's worked for them for the last 5 years and I don't see that changing. They don't seem to care about huge market share. Smaller share, higher margin.

The more I think about it the more I think Hasselblad wants to chip away at a few areas. Take a few Leica S customers. Take a few SL customers. Take a few Canon 1Dx2 and Nikon D5 customers. A few who would like something a bit *more* to compliment an XPro2. A few who already have 50K in MF and want something more portable.

I think H need Fuji and Sony to keep the heck out of this space for a while. It's a new niche and too many player won't be able to fit. That could be interesting.

Gordon



Jun 30, 2016 at 04:21 PM
GMPhotography
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p.33 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Everyone is thinking Sony or Fuji while the company that really maybe the one is Phase. They have the resources they already have the sensor and they own all the rights to Mamiya and Leaf. They have maybe the best shot at this and who knows it already maybe in the works. Here is the kicker in all this and hold the real royal flush is Sony imaging. They control both companies sensors. It would also not be that hard to turn there current new body with some integration of course and make it into a mirror less body. Surely They can pop three lenses out for release too. Not sure but they probably own the patent on the Mamiya 7 glass. Would it be that hard to startup the production on them and update them for digital. Point being no matter how you slice the cheese they are in the best position to make a move on something like this. They can also do a adapter for all there current Phase One lenses just like Hassy. I know one thing for sure they love to go after each other. Lol

Question is what's lurking behind those doors.

They are not going to sit there and watch revenue hit the floor boards



Jun 30, 2016 at 05:43 PM
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