p.34 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Fuji? The may well announce a mini MF system at Photokina, but if they do I don't expect it to be available until Spring 2017--even the rumours don't seem to be more optimistic than that. And If they do, I think we can only expect 3 lenses--my bet is a 35mm, a 70mm, and a 120mm macro. This would match their strategy for their APS-C launch. It is also likely to be another 3 years before they would have the full set of lenses that I would like. In particular I would like an ultra wide angle, a fast portrait lens, and a longer telephoto lens. For my needs we would be talking about a 3 and half year wait. I think the Fuji may come out with a mini MF system and it may even be cheaper than the Hassy X system (I doubt it will be by much, however, because the supplementary H lenses I have chosen are likely to be as cheap as the new Fuji lenses and I doubt Fuji will undercut the XCD lenses by much either), but it seems for my needs which are for a mini MF kit the time to consider Fuji would be in 4 to 5 years when I upgrade the system. I doubt I would pick Fuji over Hassy at that point, but of course if Hassy goes under having Fuji as another possible system (if they don't go under) would be a plus. ...Show more →
I would agree with your bet on lenses and availability. I have a notoriously awful track record in predicting what these companies will do or won't do, but regarding Fuji - they do have a storied history both in designing lenses for H as well as creating and marketing their own medium format cameras. They fact that they have insisted that they will not develop their own FF ILC system sort of leads me to believe there's credibility behind the rumors.
In terms of whether they'd undercut H, remember:
1. They can manufacture and design their own lenses in-house, instead of paying somebody else to do it.
2. They already have a working software platform they could adapt from their X series into their MF system. (not sure how much this matters, but it's probably helpful for a like-kind system)
3. Photography is a legacy business for Fuji (within a much larger profitable company), but is basically Hasselblad's only business. They can take bigger risks and have more pricing flexibility.
Jun 30, 2016 at 05:59 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.34 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
I honestly do not have a issue with this. First Hassy makes fabulous lenses but I woul like to know what MF lenses you would adapt. Very few 35 lenses with cover the image circle to start with so 95 percent of what we all own combined would not work. MF if there is any lenses from the pool of them is maybe some Schneider glass . Phase lenses are pretty equal to Hassy or let's say no advantage I shot most of them some really nice ones but so are Hassy. Leica S glass may just have a image circle issue as well. Pentax not any better than Hassy. So I'm not so sure what would be worth it outside H glass itself. Frankly I rather without IBIS have a leaf shutter to kill vibrations maybe I'm missing something on this need fo FP because either it's a image circle issue or not any better than Hassys H line. And no tech cam lenses are out too. But you could use a Actus DB and use tech cam lenses but have to see how you can sync that....Show more →
Hi Guy,
The distance from the centre to the corner on the Leica S 30 X 45 sensor is 27mm. The distance to the corner on the 33 X 44 Hassy sensor is 27.4mm. They need a very similar image circle. Given that the MTFs for the Leica S lenses go out to 27mm and looks quite good that far for almost all the lenses with maybe the exception of the 24mm (its performance drops noticeably past 24mm), I am pretty sure the Leica S lenses would cover the image circle. That said some of the desirable lenses including the 24mm, the 100 f/2, and the 120 f/5.6 tilt shift do not come in central shutter versions, so they would not be useable even if an adapter is made.
I'm not sure how many people would adapt the Leica S lenses, but in general they are more expensive and bigger lenses, but they are also faster in most cases and excellent performers. As an example, some people might like to adapt the Leica S 75 f/2.5 ASPH. This lens performs very well and is a third of a stop faster than the Hassy HC 80 f/2.8. The S 75 is the better performer if you trust the MTF charts as well, but not by a lot. The Leica is way bigger, however, weighing in at 890g, whereas the Hassy weighs just 475g. So the Leica weighs almost twice as much as the Hassy lens and it is the smallest Leica S lens and the only one weighing in at less than a kilo.
One lens that I could see a lot of people adapting is the Leica S 120 f/2.5 APO Macro. It is a stop and a third faster than the Hassy HC 120 f/4 Macro II and the Leica lens actually weighs less 1205 vs. 1410 grams. The Leica lens is a killer performer and with its speed makes a good portrait lens as well as a macro. The Hassy lens has 1:1 magnification, whereas the Leica only has 1: 2 -- and this higher magnification is probably why the Hassy weighs more. Still I can see at least some people wanting to adapt this lens.
I got to think, however, the market for such an adapter would be absurdly small. We'll see, but I would be surprised if one were ever made. These lenses certainly won't keep the Hassy X1D a small kit.
p.34 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
After looking at the expensive Hasselblad made CF adapter for H cameras you pointed out earlier, I noticed that the adapter itself has the sync port built into it. Perhaps it would be possible for a third party to do something similar for leaf shutter lenses down the road.
There's that and I'm sure someone could work something out with the hot shoe and a unit that could program and fire a Schneider or Rollei electronic shutter. Then it would be a question of making a mount and, if necessary, tricking the camera into thinking it has an acceptable lens attached. I think we'll know more when the camera gets into users hands, but I'm not holding out any hope.
I'd really like to see Pentax get in this game. That sensor in a K-1 style body with all of its features, a flange no longer than 22mm, and a focal plane shutter, even if they had to increase the size to get the shock dampened successfully, would be something very special. And it's Pentax, so there'd be a button for everything, which is my preferred style of engineering. I do not like touch screens.
p.34 #4 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
freaklikeme wrote:
I'd really like to see Pentax get in this game. That sensor in a K-1 style body with all of its features, a flange no longer than 22mm, and a focal plane shutter, even if they had to increase the size to get the shock dampened successfully, would be something very special. And it's Pentax, so there'd be a button for everything, which is my preferred style of engineering. I do not like touch screens.
I'm sure it must be coming from Pentax as they also have all of the pieces practically ready to go: sensor + image pipeline/ processor from the 645Z. Probably just a matter of when. I'm keen to see competition between Fuji, Hasselblad and Pentax using the same sensor which I suspect will allow for $4-5K options before long in this format. That's probably why Hasselblad needed to move soon even before the camera is really ready to go.
p.34 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
Everyone is thinking Sony or Fuji while the company that really maybe the one is Phase. They have the resources they already have the sensor and they own all the rights to Mamiya and Leaf. They have maybe the best shot at this and who knows it already maybe in the works. Here is the kicker in all this and hold the real royal flush is Sony imaging. They control both companies sensors. It would also not be that hard to turn there current new body with some integration of course and make it into a mirror less body. Surely They can pop three lenses out for release too. Not sure but they probably own the patent on the Mamiya 7 glass. Would it be that hard to startup the production on them and update them for digital. Point being no matter how you slice the cheese they are in the best position to make a move on something like this. They can also do a adapter for all there current Phase One lenses just like Hassy. I know one thing for sure they love to go after each other. Lol
Question is what's lurking behind those doors.
They are not going to sit there and watch revenue hit the floor boards...Show more →
It's not that no one is thinking Phase. People are just hoping a bigger player with experience in more advance technology than what's been available in MF will join the fray. Who wouldn't love faster AF, IS, better video, and weather sealing? I'm sure these guys are wondering if Sony will play and bring along Zeiss. They're probably not that afraid of Fuji since Fuji haven't really shown the ability to grab marketshare. The MF guys are more worried about Sony, Leica, and the big two. Leica is already in the market and making big claims they will eventually dominate it. Seeing a Sony MF mirrorless with Zeiss lenses would be great. Make it fast to AF and have IS, and I wouldn't have much qualms about switching from FE to ME. A Sony ME system with Zeiss lenses would be killer for video. Seriously, if Sony enters, it'll probably be more about Arri and Red and less about Phase and Hassy.
p.34 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I think this new Blad is a beautiful, nay lets say sexy piece of kit. It has the form factor, the image ratio and overall size that i have been looking for in a mirrorless camera.
Just a few issues though. I need shift capability for my architectural work, and is becoming quite useful for my landscape work as well. Of course the canon lenses, while they likely have the coverage, won't work given the lack of focal plane shutter. That is a major pity! Had this system allowed other lens systems, they would sell more bodies to non Hasselblad users, of this i am convinced.
I also have become addicted to C1, and find like others here that i don't feel comfortable using anything else.
What shift options would work here? Unlikely that they will produce a native shift lens any time soon.
On other MF systems from Fuji or Phase. Perhaps this a bit like the one penguin pushing the other into the water to see if it is safe before jumping in. Perhaps they have systems 'ready to go' but are waiting to see how the market responds to this one. Here's hoping anyway.
p.34 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
karlfoto wrote:
I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I think this new Blad is a beautiful, nay lets say sexy piece of kit. It has the form factor, the image ratio and overall size that i have been looking for in a mirrorless camera.
Just a few issues though. I need shift capability for my architectural work, and is becoming quite useful for my landscape work as well. Of course the canon lenses, while they likely have the coverage, won't work given the lack of focal plane shutter. That is a major pity! Had this system allowed other lens systems, they would sell more bodies to non Hasselblad users, of this i am convinced.
I also have become addicted to C1, and find like others here that i don't feel comfortable using anything else.
What shift options would work here? Unlikely that they will produce a native shift lens any time soon.
On other MF systems from Fuji or Phase. Perhaps this a bit like the one penguin pushing the other into the water to see if it is safe before jumping in. Perhaps they have systems 'ready to go' but are waiting to see how the market responds to this one. Here's hoping anyway....Show more →
The Hasselblad HTS 1.5 Tilt & Shift adapter will be compatible with the X1D. It allows Tilt & Shift but increases the effective focal length by 1.5x.
p.34 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
sflxn wrote:
They're probably not that afraid of Fuji since Fuji haven't really shown the ability to grab marketshare.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of Fuji regarding marketshare. They've created a nice little niche for themselves with their X line and continue to work to keep their user-base happy, which, what from what I've seen around here and other photo sites, they are happy. I don't think they expected to dominate the market so much as they filled a desire for an underserved portion of the mirrorless market. I'd also venture a guess that there are more people shooting with Fuji-X cameras than Hassy digitals.
Still, I don't think anyone's afraid of a Fuji MF camera, because I don't think Fuji would be interested in making a camera that directly compares to the X1D, which is aimed pretty squarely at people who would consider the 645z and S, or, to a lesser degree, the SL and 5Dsr. Fuji's first love is the rangefinder styling, and my guess is that will be how they enter the market, if they decide to do so at all. I'm betting it'll have a hybrid viewfinder like the X-Pro redesigned for the format, the typical top plate control layout complete with threaded shutter release button, and a decent compliment of direct-access buttons. That with two or three Fuji-designed lenses that would likely be just a bit faster than the Hassy glass for but come in at roughly the same price-points, would put a smile on many faces.
p.34 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
IMO the idea that Fuji or Sony will make some kind of affordable MF camera anytime soon is a little hopeful. You can even question if Phase would want to bother with that "wealthy amature" market either, regardless of the Brands they own - which are not particularly well known, at least not in the same way that Leica and Hasselblad are, both of which find themselves regularly featured in "Shopping Magazines for the aspirational Manager/Executive" type publications.
We can laugh and poke fun about it, however there is not a long line of people with 14k for a camera system they only use on weekends And the line with people who have 7k spare is not much longer. Fuji owners in particular like to talk about the value for money their system represents ....
p.34 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
timde wrote:
You can even question if Phase would want to bother with that "wealthy amature" market either, regardless of the Brands they own - which are not particularly well known, at least not in the same way that Leica and Hasselblad are, both of which find themselves regularly featured in "Shopping Magazines for the aspirational Manager/Executive" type publications.
....
I think I have read somewhere that wealthy enthusiasts represent almost the entire market for the high end Phase backs these days.
p.34 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Don't get me wrong. If Fuji came to market at a lower price point, I'd jump on it. However, if both Fuji and Sony entered at the same time, I'd probably go with the Sony. It's just that Sony fights like a caged animal. There is an aggressiveness that really appeals to my desire for new tech. Fuji tends to think things through more and is more focused on their photographers, but they let important features like video, fast AF and IS slide till they are really sure about them. If Sony entered mirrorless MF, you can bet their aggression will be unlike anything Hassy or Phase has ever had to compete with. We'd get so many features and tech.
p.34 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
My guess is, should Sony wish to enter the MF market "with serious intent", they should probably consider buying up either Hassy or Phase. That would let them implement a separate "luxo" strategy. Not unlike Fiat with Ferrari, VW with Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti and Bentley, BMW with Rolls-Royce.
A Sony-owned Hassy, if properly managed, and admittedly that is a big "if", would be a serious threat for Leica IMHO.
p.34 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
If phase one jumps into the market expect the price to a lot higher then hasselblads offering. They haven't been dropping prices in the last 6 years, but raising. When the d800 came out we saw them raise prices of all the lenses and camera backs. It's working since people are still buying their product.
Sony president has stated multiple of times that they aren't entering the medium format world because there main focus is on releasing lenses for the Sony a7 system which is a smart thing to do. If Fuji jumps into the market I'll might consider, but if they jump in expect phase one to not support their files in capture one lol. Phase one don't like supporting the rivals haha.
i have never seen anyone use a Leica S2 until I found this forum and I only know one guy in person that has a Leica SL, but he prefers a Sony A7r ii. i don't know the market for Leica people and I highly doubt this hasselblad will effects sells or persuade people from Leica.
I hope the Sony a9 has a big robust body like the Leica SL, but hopefully not look as ugly. Definitely need a affordable well built mirrorless camera that can take a beating.
p.34 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
timde wrote:
IMO the idea that Fuji or Sony will make some kind of affordable MF camera anytime soon is a little hopeful. You can even question if Phase would want to bother with that "wealthy amature" market either, regardless of the Brands they own - which are not particularly well known, at least not in the same way that Leica and Hasselblad are, both of which find themselves regularly featured in "Shopping Magazines for the aspirational Manager/Executive" type publications.
We can laugh and poke fun about it, however there is not a long line of people with 14k for a camera system they only use on weekends And the line with people who have 7k spare is not much longer. Fuji owners in particular like to talk about the value for money their system represents .......Show more →
Well, it appears that pre-orders have taken at least the first batch of cameras already. That line of people with 14K might just be longer than we think. Heck, even based on the simple fact this thread is over 30 pages and no one has seen in in the flesh tells me there's plenty of interest. 10% of us can probably afford this. Plus Leica has already proven that more expensive cameras do sell and sell well. The trick will be to control supply so there's enough stock but not flood the market and devalue the system like Fuji does every time.
Gordon
Jul 01, 2016 at 04:41 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.34 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Well I put in a preorder today. I don't know if I will get in the first batch, but I figure I might as well get in line. So, this time I will be a guinea pig.
p.34 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Well I put in a preorder today. I don't know if I will get in the first batch, but I figure I might as well get in line. So, this time I will be a guinea pig.
I'm just a little bit jealous, Steve. If I didn't have the Pentax I might have as well. Who wants a wager Fred and Guy aren't close to pushing the button as well?
I'll be looking forward to your thoughts when you get yours.
p.34 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Awesome Steve, looking forward to you getting it. I want it , I did the math and it's not great but I maybe able to do it in in October or something. I just need to decide if it's exactly what I want to do as I finally have a perfect Sony kit with all my glass being fantastic copies of each one. That in itself is not a easy task, I'll go through my dealer if I do so I won't have to pre-order from the standard shops
Steve Spencer wrote:
Well I put in a preorder today. I don't know if I will get in the first batch, but I figure I might as well get in line. So, this time I will be a guinea pig.
p.34 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
Well I put in a preorder today. I don't know if I will get in the first batch, but I figure I might as well get in line. So, this time I will be a guinea pig.
I'm excited for you, Steve. I hope you do get in the first batch. The faster you get it, the faster some us get to live vicariously through you.
And if my long-ago experience in retail means anything, there's pre-order day, and then there's the day you let people know about the impending arrival of stock, which could also be called pre-order cancellation day. So you may well end up in the first batch.
p.34 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Congratulations, Steve! And I hope you didn't take my "guinea pig" comment in bad part. Only well after after I'd posted did I realised it could also be read that way, which wasn't intended.
And the line with people who have 7k spare is not much longer. Fuji owners in particular like to talk about the value for money their system represents ....
