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Archive 2016 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless

  
 
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p.32 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


DougDolde wrote:
I'm seriously considering selling off or trading my Phase One XF / IQ180 kit with lenses for one of these. Not for image quality but for SMALL and LIGHTWEIGHT. My Phase kit in the backpack weighs 28 lbs.


If you carried just the body and two equivalent lenses What would your phase weigh then?

I think *if* your happy to stick with just the lenses for the new system, it'll be light. But once you start adding the adaptor and larger H lenses the difference will be much smaller.

Gordon



Jun 29, 2016 at 04:07 PM
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p.32 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


DougDolde wrote:
I'm seriously considering selling off or trading my Phase One XF / IQ180 kit with lenses for one of these. Not for image quality but for SMALL and LIGHTWEIGHT. My Phase kit in the backpack weighs 28 lbs.


Compactness is the reason the X1D is shaking the industry. There are even better alternatives as far as sensor size and lens selection but none will be small and light. Older full frame MF backs sound attractive at current used prices but you are still getting a big system and older sensor tech. Used 33x44mm sensor bodies like the Pentax 645Z cost almost half of the X1D-50c but many will be happy to pay much more to have a lighter system. (Especially landscape photographers)

Hasselblad is pushing the theme of high IQ in a light compact system for a reason. In interviews I've read they mentioned that bigger sensors will not be a part of their mirrorless system and they are designing the entire lens line-up based on 33x44mm only.
To keep things as small and light as possible, XCD lenses will be mostly slower primes without image stabilization and there are currently no plans to design zoom lenses. Sony tried that as well but later realized that faster lenses for the e-mount were a must to lure SLR shooters.

Basically Hasselblad is offering the best IQ possible for the size. If this camera had Sony's new 100MP full frame MF sensor, the mirrorless body and lenses would be way bigger. It's a good compromise.



Jun 29, 2016 at 04:10 PM
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p.32 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks Tariq. I am not that worried about the size of a macro lens and I will use this almost exclusively on a tripod. I do wish it had a tripod collar, but perhaps we will be able to mount the adapter to the tripod and that would be sufficient enough for my purposes. With regard to the other HC lenses. The 80 f/2.8 only weighs 475g (just over a pound) so it ought to be fine, and the 100 f/2.2 is really about the same size as most DSLR fast portrait lenses. And the 150 f/3.2 is about
...Show more

The Pentax 28-45 also weighs 3lbs. I found that using a nodal slide I could get good balance on a tripod. With the H there'll be a leaf shutter so if the balance is good it won't be too much of a hassle.

Gordon



Jun 29, 2016 at 04:11 PM
Matt Grum
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p.32 #4 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless




mawz wrote:
CDAF performance is limited by readout speed of the sensor, which is the real challenge with big, high-MP sensors. You simply aren't going to get the 240fps readout from the 50MP sensor that the smaller sensors can achieve.

That said, I'd expect performance to be decent by MF standards. As you note, MF AF performance is quite poor by 35mm standards.



Oh it won't be the fastest by any means, but I have no reason to believe it won't be extremely accurate. In a high resolution camera such as this I believe accuracy to be more important than speed.



Jun 29, 2016 at 05:02 PM
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p.32 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Slightly off-topic, SAR is "reporting" that the last earthquake in Japan messed up the production schedule at Sony's sensor factory, I wonder what affect this will have on the X1D release... also any upcoming A7x cameras or that imaginary A9 camera he keeps talking about.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/yep-today-anothe-rbad-news-kumamoto-sensor-factiry-will-fully-operational-august/



Jun 29, 2016 at 05:04 PM
rscheffler
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p.32 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


sflxn wrote:
The AF is the feature that's holding me off on this camera. Contrast detect on a medium format sensor. I have a bad feeling about that.

Matt Grum wrote:
Why? Contrast detect is more accurate than phase detect. I would be more reluctant to buy a camera that was phase detect only, you rely an awful lot on the alignment of the AF sensor - DSLRs are already at the point where you have to calibrate your lenses yourself if you want really accurate focus (and what's the point of high resolution without that?) Plus medium format bodies aren't exactly renowned for their AF - forget 61 focus points, how about just the one!

The only problem with contrast detect is the ability to track fast moving subjects, which
...Show more

I think the implied point was the camera doesn't have on-sensor phase detect AF and only contrast detect. In one of those Hasselblad interviews or statements they said something to the effect that they have to wait for the sensor manufacturer to implement on-sensor PDAF in a future model. Sony was too far along with the current sensor to add PDAF. It might not speed things up too much with that kind of sensor, but it would potentially minimize AF hunting.

Fred, I agree the configuration and sensor size makes sense for this camera in respect to keeping things reasonably sized. But it also brings to mind statements by other manufacturers such as Nikon who said for quite some time they wouldn't go FF and Leica during the M8 period who said a FF M was technically infeasible. In other words, never say never...



Jun 29, 2016 at 05:31 PM
GMPhotography
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p.32 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Now rumors of Fuji with three lenses at Photokinia. Not a rumors fan , you can't count on it but will see. I'm actually shocked it took this long for someone to jump. This is not a new conversation on what we want for sure.


Jun 29, 2016 at 05:41 PM
rscheffler
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p.32 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Guy, three lenses for the Hasselblad system, or for their own system? If for their own, you mean a MF system?


Jun 29, 2016 at 05:44 PM
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p.32 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


As far as AF is concern. It also depends on the lens design. As Leica has shown with the SL lenses. If you design your lenses with fast AF in mind, then you can really extract the most out of your system. The 90-280 has a dual AF system and is blazing fast. The 24-90 doesn't seem to need it, but was still designed with fast AF in mind.

In good light it's the fastest AF I've seen (I actually hate to admit it after all this non-sense with Leica). I will add that the contrast detect sensor probably slows the SL down. BUT, again, good lenses make up for it. And will just add value down the line when better bodies hit the shelves. Assuming Leica isn't bankrupt by then from horrid customer service issues :P

Another point, the S-adapter SL allows for the S-lenses to be used on the SL. But they're terribly slow, although faster then on the S-006, they're not able to lock onto a moving subject at all. Not the sensors fault in this case, the lens design and AF motor just cannot keep up like how the SL lenses can/do.
Actually even the newly released 35 Summilux-T (that I own) when mounted on the T or SL cannot keep up with the 24-90 and 90-280. The 35T is roughly the speed of most DSLR 85mm lenses. And there was no mention from Leica that AF considerations where taken when designing the 35T.

Point is, hopefully Hassy designed the new HX lenses with fast AF in mind. That would definitely up the usability of the system. All they would have to do is work out some focusing kinks through firmware, and the camera could be decently appealing. Truth be told, I'm not holding my breath that Hassy went above and beyond on this point.



Jun 29, 2016 at 06:01 PM
GMPhotography
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p.32 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Fuji MF with 3 new lenses of there own. Feels more like saying someday I'll be 40 again. Lol
Same sensor. Seems a stretch to me


rscheffler wrote:
Guy, three lenses for the Hasselblad system, or for their own system? If for their own, you mean a MF system?




Jun 29, 2016 at 06:20 PM
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p.32 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


mawz wrote:
CDAF performance is limited by readout speed of the sensor, which is the real challenge with big, high-MP sensors. You simply aren't going to get the 240fps readout from the 50MP sensor that the smaller sensors can achieve.

That said, I'd expect performance to be decent by MF standards. As you note, MF AF performance is quite poor by 35mm standards.

For non-tracking CDAF, firmware can employ the windowed readout mode of Sony's sensors which allows a small rectangular area of the sensor to be read, usually at high speed. This mechanism is also employed for the magnified view in LV on most sensors.



Jun 29, 2016 at 07:39 PM
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p.32 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


GMPhotography wrote:
Fuji MF with 3 new lenses of there own. Feels more like saying someday I'll be 40 again. Lol
Same sensor. Seems a stretch to me



I'd be excited if this were true. They've done a fine job with their XF series (lenses and bodies).



Jun 29, 2016 at 07:50 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.32 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
Sony was too far along with the current sensor to add PDAF.


As in, the sensor was already completed when Hasselblad started discussing the idea and was used in the Pentax 645Z (as well as Hasselblad's own products) before the X1D even got the green light to be made. I suppose that's some sort of marketing way to state that sensor development was "too far along". I just wish some of these guys would just say it like it is...

Quote form interview:

"We started discussing the idea in November 2013 but were still talking about it a year later before we decided to go ahead."

Pentax 645Z was announced April 2014.




Jun 29, 2016 at 08:08 PM
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p.32 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Tariq,
You don't let these guys get away with anything!

Tariq Gibran wrote:
As in, the sensor was already completed when Hasselblad started discussing the idea and was used in the Pentax 645Z (as well as Hasselblad's own products) before the X1D even got the green light to be made. I suppose that's some sort of marketing way to state that sensor development was "too far along". I just wish some of these guys would just say it like it is...

Quote form interview:

"We started discussing the idea in November 2013 but were still talking about it a year later before we decided to go ahead."

Pentax 645Z was announced April 2014.





Jun 29, 2016 at 08:24 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.32 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Fred Miranda wrote:
Tariq,
You don't let these guys get away with anything!



Yeah, I realized it might have sounded a bit harsh after I posted it. It's not just Hasselblad of course...

Something I will be curious to see is if Hasselblad make their end of August/ first of September availability date. I say that because in the same interview, the product manager states "'It is still early days for this camera but when it comes to market it will have touch AF...' so the AF and user system seems to still be a work in progress. Just seems like a lot of work left for Hasselblad to complete within two months. It almost seems like they may have announced early to beat other players that may announce and deliver around Photokina.





Jun 29, 2016 at 08:38 PM
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p.32 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
Guy, three lenses for the Hasselblad system, or for their own system? If for their own, you mean a MF system?


My guess would be same mount. Just like their 645 system was the same as the H1.

Fuji & Hasselblad have a long history of collaboration.



Jun 29, 2016 at 08:44 PM
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p.32 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


philber wrote:
Wow, Steve! That is quite commitment: one body and 8 lenses. I'd need to be pretty d****d sure of 2 things before I even considered this. One is that the platform would last and prosper. Two is that I couldn't get the same for less money on another platform now or in the near future. Given the great speed at which Sony has been moving so far, and the reputedly parlous state of Hasselblad's affairs, I don't (yet) see either condition being met. Maybe, just maybe, if the same camera had been released by Phase, I'd feel differently. Plus I
...Show more

Well if I am going to buy into the system then I want a set of lenses. The kit I am thinking of is a basic five lens kit and a lot like an 18/24/35/75/135 FF 35MM kit as the base. That will translate to 24/30/45/90/150 for mini MF. Then for me I would want to add a fast portrait lens (i.e., the 100 f/2.2) a macro lens (i.e., 120 f/4) and a longer telephoto (i.e., the 300 f/4.5). Yes, that is a lot but I have been thinking about a Leica SL if I forgo that camera and the 7 lenses I was thinking of getting for it (none of which work optimally on the a7rII), then the Hassy and the 8 lenses actually comes in at quite a bit less money. You can get the HC lenses used for fairly reasonable prices. Fortunately, I got a sort of signing bonus as I am moving to a new job and that combined with moving to a much less expensive place to live means that I have a nice bit of money to spend. That doesn't happen often, but it let's me reconfigure my gear and I just might role the dice that a mirrorless FF 35mm for a smaller kit when I want it and mirrorless mini MF for most landscapes, macro, and portraits could be the kit for me going forward. I am not worried about the HC lenses as I am getting them used and I think their prices will hold especially as they can be used on the Leica S system. If Hasselblad goes under I could feel quite comfortable with a switch to Leica S. I like the size of this camera, the 4:3 image ratio, the better sensor, and the much cheaper price of the Blad over the current S, so I hope this format makes it. Even if it doesn't, however, in four or five years when it is time to replace this camera I could always go with a one generation old Leica S and it ought to be a similar price to this camera. By that time the Leica S might even be mirrorless too.

So in comparing to other mini Mf systems it is definitely cheaperr than Leica S (no surprise there), and similar in price to the Pentax 645Z. The Pentax is way to big for my taste, however. Yes, Fuji may come out with a system at Photokina but I have my doubts about that and I don't think they are any better or a bet to make it than Hasselblad. If the system comes out and looks fantastic I would be surprised if I wouldn't be able to cancel my pre-order and switch. Realistically I don't expect to get the Hasselblad until early November.So, I can preorder and still change my mind if I want to do so.



Jun 29, 2016 at 11:03 PM
GMPhotography
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p.32 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Steve between you , me and the fence post this sensor is far better than the Leica S ( flame suit on) my P40 beat it back in the day) this new sensor is really good . What the Leica S has is great lenses but there very expensive.


Jun 29, 2016 at 11:16 PM
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p.32 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yeah, I realized it might have sounded a bit harsh after I posted it. It's not just Hasselblad of course...

Something I will be curious to see is if Hasselblad make their end of August/ first of September availability date. I say that because in the same interview, the product manager states "'It is still early days for this camera but when it comes to market it will have touch AF...' so the AF and user system seems to still be a work in progress. Just seems like a lot of work left for Hasselblad to complete within two months.
...Show more

Agree. At this point, they should be fixing firmware bugs instead of adding crucial features like touch AF!



Jun 29, 2016 at 11:21 PM
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p.32 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
Guy, three lenses for the Hasselblad system, or for their own system? If for their own, you mean a MF system?


Ron,
Here is the rumor's link:
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-medium-format-more-affordable-than-hasselblad-x1d/



Jun 29, 2016 at 11:24 PM
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