hiepphotog wrote:
A lot to criticize and a lot to like might work with a $2000 camera. But for a $7k+, I'm not sure I would be willing to make too much compromises. I admit I really like the 50 ISO thing, big EVF, dual slot (mainly because of UHS-II support). I'm not sure about its responsiveness yet, but the GUI does seem to get more complicated. I read most of the reviews out there right now and some said because of the amount of customization, the menu system is similar to Sony's now. However, the lens system is what really kills it for me; too big and heavy.
Again, I thought Leica is the master of making small lenses with high IQ. I guess Karbe is not in the team. Paying this much a camera would require a viable ecosystem into the future, not just to adapt stuff. Sony is already excellent at this, big lens can always be used with a gripped A7. And the future of SL system is medium format size and weight with a competitive FF IQ (but not the top). To me, the look of the camera is irrelevant. I can put up with the ergonomics for light lens, but for big lens, I don't know if that grip (contour-less) is going to be comfortable. In the end, I would consider buying it if it's not for what Jono Black said in his review that its M compatibility is good but not as good as the M240. Again, sound to me like a modded Sony cam (for less than half the price). If anything, the next M with this same tech would be a big hit for Leica.
Sony only gets dethroned when this camera is adopted more by the mass. The difference is academic when Leica can only sell this to a few individuals....Show more →
I think you are mischaracterizing Jono Black's review. He said he thought the edges and corners were *slightly* better on the M240, but that was without side by side testing. He also said he shot tons with the a number of M lenses and that, "Results have been excellent, and compare well with those from My Leica M240." So, from this review there is no indication of problems with M lenses. They seem to work well.
This camera seems to work well with Leica lenses that the Sony cameras do not and it works with Leica S lenses that the Sony camera cannot use. So for alt lenses it does seem to work with more lenses that the Sony A7 series. In my book that makes it the champ for alt lenses, but YMMV.
zhangyue wrote:
2 year down to the road, your A7RII may be worth $1500, this thing might be still $4500, resell value wise, Sony camera is worst of bunch so far.
Ah, so you lose $1.7k on the Sony and $3k on the Leica.
Spyro P. wrote:
Ah, so you lose $1.7k on the Sony and $3k on the Leica.
Yeh, it is not bad, Always work with ratio in my mind. (because of at the time of buying, they are worth retail to me)
My half year old Sony A7 sold at 55% loss at the time, it is painful.
zhangyue wrote:
2 year down to the road, your A7RII may be worth $1500, this thing might be still $4500, resell value wise, Sony camera is worst of bunch so far.
that's why you should buy the sony 1-2 years down the road, huge discount while the tech is still ahead of most of the competition. anybody looking to get rid of an a7rII cheap to fund a purchase of the new SL please hit me up.
in any event i'm not interested in this due to size, but maybe they'll come out with a smaller body later. the evf looks sweet though. i want to see some real tests with troublesome m lenses too.
sebboh wrote:
that's why you should buy the sony 1-2 years down the road, huge discount while the tech is still ahead of most of the competition. anybody looking to get rid of an a7rII cheap to fund a purchase of the new SL please hit me up.
in any event i'm not interested in this due to size, but maybe they'll come out with a smaller body later. the evf looks sweet though. i want to see some real tests with troublesome m lenses too.
Ask Leica to send me an SL for review. I'll review almost all the M-lenses. Also the S-lenses and while I'm at it some R-lenses for fun. I'll even shoot a wedding with it if they can get it to me fast enough
adamdewilde wrote:
Ask Leica to send me an SL for review. I'll review almost all the M-lenses. Also the S-lenses and while I'm at it some R-lenses for fun. I'll even shoot a wedding with it if they can get it to me fast enough
i'm fairly certain leica isn't listening to my requests.
Out if my price range, but first glance shows some tech that I wouldn't mind Sony using. Dual card slots, more resolution in the EVF, touch screen. Also didn't see it mentioned but it's has wifi and GPS as well. Which begs the questions.
- Since it's also a full frame sensor and records 4K, will it overheat? I didn't pay attention to see if it has a flip screen, which helps with overheating with the Sony,
- with GPS, etc, how is battery life compared to Sony? The most common complaint against the Sony is the battery life, which you can get a couple of spares for $20. A spare Leica batteries gotta be what... $100?
Well... I must say I am so disappointed. No other way to say it. That thing is just MASSIVE. Size wise its much closer to Nikon D600/D750 and Canon 6D, than Sony A7 -series (or A7R II). I think this was a huge mistake. Now it seems Leica is going head to head against CaNikon, a potential suicide already there. They should have tried to keep the size small. And yes, A7r II still does have size advantage compared to full frame DSLRs. But compared to SL body and lenses I've seen, Leica does not have the same advantage. And the body does not even have IBIS yet it still weights 847 g. I'm wondering if this thing will have a bulb mode. And I mean a real bulb mode, not same as Q/M 240 limited to 1 minute exposures. That is not a real bulb mode.
TMaG82 wrote:
Out if my price range, but first glance shows some tech that I wouldn't mind Sony using. Dual card slots, more resolution in the EVF, touch screen. Also didn't see it mentioned but it's has wifi and GPS as well. Which begs the questions.
- Since it's also a full frame sensor and records 4K, will it overheat? I didn't pay attention to see if it has a flip screen, which helps with overheating with the Sony,
- with GPS, etc, how is battery life compared to Sony? The most common complaint against the Sony is the battery life, which you can get a couple of spares for $20. A spare Leica batteries gotta be what... $100?...Show more →
Battery is $250
They're saying 400 shots. But I'm hearing 800.. These people seem like they would chimp. Simply because it's a review and a new camera to them.
I was hearing the same battery stats for the Q, but I don't chimp EVER. So I get 4 times that easily. Leica just has very good power management (thanks Panasonic).
I'd still get a spare battery though!
No flip screen (i hate that feature and I don't even know why I hate it).
GPS would be the first thing I turn off. I don't think the Q has it. I also keep the wifi off on the Q.
Keep in mind I would hate to have to manage 5-10 batteries. Which I had to do with the A7, A7s, A7r, A7II, A7rII. I had 10 batteries between two bodies that I used simultaneously and it was a pain.
I'd much rather 3 batteries between 2 cameras that cost more money, but last longer. But that's just me.
Tmuussoni wrote:
Well... I must say I am so disappointed. No other way to say it. That thing is just MASSIVE. Size wise its much closer to Nikon D600/D750 and Canon 6D, than Sony A7 -series (or A7R II). I think this was a huge mistake. Now it seems Leica is going head to head against CaNikon, a potential suicide already there. They should have tried to keep the size small. And yes, A7r II still does have size advantage compared to full frame DSLRs. But compared to SL body and lenses I've seen, Leica does not have the same advantage. And the body does not even have IBIS yet it still weights 847 g. I'm wondering if this thing will have a bulb mode. And I mean a real bulb mode, not same as Q/M 240 limited to 1 minute exposures. That is not a real bulb mode.
NO DIGITAL CAMERA can technically have real bulb mode.. Period. 30 minutes is a pretty long time if you ask me. I usually get bit by mosquitoes after about 2 minutes.. And I usually lose my patience and kick my tripod after about 5 or 6 minutes.
BTW 8000th mechanical shutter is good enough for me.
NO DIGITAL CAMERA can technically have real bulb mode.. Period. 30 minutes is a pretty long time if you ask me. I usually get bit by misquotes after about 2 minutes.. And I usually lose my patients and kick my tripod after about 5 or 6 minutes.
BTW 8000th mechanical shutter is good enough for me.
Ah, thank you. 30 mins sounds great. So finally a Leica body with long exposures! But I am going to disagree here. Leica remained the only body manufacturer for a very long time with such restrictions regarding using bulb mode. M 240: 1 min. Q Type 116: 1 min (note: with higher ISO its restricted to just 8 seconds). No other CMOS body I am aware of has such restrictions.. I had no problems doing long exposures with A7r/5D II/5D III/D700, up to 30 mins easily. Especially if you turned on long exposure noise reduction. Anyway, I am glad they finally got it right!
TMaG82 wrote:
I didn't pay attention to see if it has a flip screen, which helps with overheating with the Sony
No flip out screen on the Leica, but I don't see how that helps prevent overheating...
adamdewilde wrote:
Keep in mind I would hate to have to manage 5-10 batteries. Which I had to do with the A7, A7s, A7r, A7II, A7rII. I had 10 batteries between two bodies that I used simultaneously and it was a pain.
I'd much rather 3 batteries between 2 cameras that cost more money, but last longer. But that's just me.
I just got back from a five day trip to Lisbon where I took an A7RII and 4 batteries. I had to change battery once the entire trip, and that was at the very end of one of the days. It depends on how you use the camera of course (when I hear of people taking 10 batteries I can't help but wonder what they're doing), but I know for me that two batteries is all I need for a day of casual shooting, which is more than manageable.
adamdewilde wrote:
I usually get bit by misquotes after about 2 minutes..
Misquotes don't bother me so much but when I get bitten by an improperly used apostrophe, that really hurts!
Matt Grum wrote:
No flip out screen on the Leica, but I don't see how that helps prevent overheating...
I just got back from a five day trip to Lisbon where I took an A7RII and 4 batteries. I had to change battery once the entire trip, and that was at the very end of one of the days. It depends on how you use the camera of course (when I hear of people taking 10 batteries I can't help but wonder what they're doing), but I know for me that two batteries is all I need for a day of casual shooting, which is more than manageable.
Misquotes don't bother me so much but when I get bitten by an improperly used apostrophe, that really hurts!
damn auto-correct!!
I was using the A7 series cameras for weddings. I don't machine gun it, but Asian weddings can be long.. Around 15-17 hours long. That's what I consider a full day
rscheffler wrote:
Well, we don't know yet how it will predominantly be used. But if a fair number of former R system users adopt it, then I think the SL's size makes sense relative to R lens sizing and the availability of some very desirable telephoto lenses.
Considering the trend in modern optical design is towards considerably larger, high performance lenses, then I do feel a somewhat larger body is logical. Some of the smaller lenses we've seen from Sony, such as the 28/2, like the Q's 28/1.7, and a number from Fuji (and probably others, too) rely a lot on in-camera processing for some lens corrections in exchange for size reduction. With these large introductory zooms, Leica is implying they're aiming for traditional optical corrections rather than in-camera, but that remains to be seen.
When the a7 first launched, I was told by Sony that the primary design goal was to make the camera as small as physically possible. Obviously this has been attractive to many photographers and I can appreciate why, having lugged around D/SLRs for a couple decades. But to expect all future lenses to be suitably small for such (IMO) undersized cameras is unrealistic, unless one is willing to accept design compromises that likely mean greater reliance on in-camera corrections. With 42-50MP and greater sensors, this may be more realistic. But it seems Leica's philosophy is somewhat different, which I appreciate and am glad to have available as an option....Show more →
The industry has for many years focused and improved in DSLR lens systems, it is hard to turn the spinning wheels around by making high quality, smaller sized lenses which fit better to mirrorless cameras in focal lengths below 135 mm. Sony itself was surprised two years ago by the success with the A7 series, and had to push out lenses quickly to satisfy the growing market with the disruptive mirrorless technology. It sounds to me that blueprints of DSLR lenses were and are still used to make lenses which fit to the mirrorless E-mount and now here in the Leica SL case. That lenses can be made smaller show recent examples with Batis and manual focus Loxia lenses, also Voigtlander seems to be in demand with their M-series lenses (including the recent announcement to produce E-mount rangefinder-based lenses in 2016). I see this as a growing trend - I wouldn't be surprised to see more smaller, AF-based lenses for mirrorless cameras in the future replacing the bulkier current ones for wide and normal/small tele focal lengths.
Matter of personal preference (ignoring the difference in price now) - but I would go for sure with the smaller camera body (okay, I admit that I prefer to have smaller lenses, too).
adamdewilde wrote:
Battery is $250
They're saying 400 shots. But I'm hearing 800.. These people seem like they would chimp. Simply because it's a review and a new camera to them.
That's sourced from Ming originally from what I've read, his shooting style tends to much better life than CIPA standard. Little chimping, no flash. $250 is ridiculous though, 1st party batteries are already wildly marked up at 1/3 that cost.
I was hearing the same battery stats for the Q, but I don't chimp EVER. So I get 4 times that easily. Leica just has very good power management (thanks Panasonic).
I'd still get a spare battery though!
No flip screen (i hate that feature and I don't even know why I hate it).
GPS would be the first thing I turn off. I don't think the Q has it. I also keep the wifi off on the Q.
No flip screen is a deal-ender for me. Absolute design fail in a mirrorless body, and moderate fail in a DSLR. Articulated screens are simply such a massive improvement for tripod and non-eyelevel handheld work that I wouldn't buy a body without one today. For those who don't like them, high-end ones are thin and tuck away readily (like on my E-M1)
Keep in mind I would hate to have to manage 5-10 batteries. Which I had to do with the A7, A7s, A7r, A7II, A7rII. I had 10 batteries between two bodies that I used simultaneously and it was a pain.
I'd much rather 3 batteries between 2 cameras that cost more money, but last longer. But that's just me.
Sony does not cover themselves in glory with the battery for the A7. They should have used the A99 battery rather than the low-capacity battery from the smaller NEX series. The issue here isn't so much power management as it is a tiny battery with inadequate capacity for the camera's needs.
Matt Grum wrote:
No flip out screen on the Leica, but I don't see how that helps prevent overheating...
The LCD screen both generates heat in addition to the heat from the sensor, and it insulates the body. Flipping out the screen solves both of these problems, as the heat from the LCD does not enter the body, and the heat from the sensor can be freely radiated and convected away from the back of the body.
I'm not sure why I'm starting to change my mind about this camera. I was really in shock yesterday but now many aspects of it are starting to make sense. Even the design isn't as bad as I initially thought. That doesn't mean I'm going to rush and buy one. Being a prime person, I will wait at least until the 50 lux is released. My interest in this camera is for AF, and I use my M mount glass on my M240,so in the long term I would definitely consider it.
)
damn auto-correct!!