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Archive 2015 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...

  
 
relms
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p.30 #1 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


I have followed with a great deal of interest many of the comments posted here and on other forums concerning the SL and I have been trying to decide if the SL makes sense for me.

I am not a professional photographer in that I don't make my living with photography. Neither am I "a rich dentist," but fortunately my profession has enabled me to own and enjoy many different camera systems over the years including, Yashica, Nikon, Canon, Leica, Sony, and Leica again. Oh, yes, and then there is Kodak and iPhone to add to the list.

I do occasionally sell prints, and I am occasionally asked to shoot a portrait or two, but mainly I shoot for the pure pleasure of it, and to keep the right brain in working order.

I started my journey with Leica about four years ago by acquiring an M9, an S2-P, and a couple of Leica lenses: Summilux-M 50 ASPH and Summarit-S 70. I also picked up the M246, which is my over-the-top indulgence. Since then I have acquired several additional M lenses, but the Summarit 70 is the only S lens that I currently own.

I have owned, and sold, three Sony alphas - a7R, a7II, and a7RII - all impressive, but lacking in the all-important joy of use. I also picked up a Q from the Buy/Sell forum, and while it is a great little camera, I still found myself reaching for an M most of the time, so I sold the Q.

I use the S2 primarily for landscapes and portraits, and I am hooked on the image quality it produces. After all these years, I am still often awestruck when I open the files in Lightroom, seeing their quality and characteristics. I had planned to sell the S2-P after the SL arrives, but I just cannot bring myself to do it. (Adam, your comments had a bearing on that decision.)

After considering many of the discussions here and on other forums, the picture has finally come into focus for me, and that is that the SL would not provide enough enhancements over what I presently have between the S and M systems to justify its cost. I will stick with what I have - for now, anyway.

But on the other hand, with the money I could get by selling the S2-P, coupled with the money I am saving on the SL, I could upgrade to the S007. Now, there's a thought!

Edited on Nov 29, 2015 at 10:28 PM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2015 at 10:15 PM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #2 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


relms wrote:
I have followed with a great deal of interest many of the comments posted here and on other forums concerning the SL. I have been trying to decide if the SL makes sense for me.

I am not a professional photographer in that I don't make my living with photography. Neither am I "a rich dentist," but fortunately my profession has enabled me to own and enjoy many different camera systems over the years including, Yashica, Nikon, Canon, Leica, Sony, and Leica again. Oh, yes, and then there is Kodak and iPhone to add to the list.

I do occasionally sell
...Show more


The S-007 will give you a clear boost in camera body performance. It's faster, feels more like a big name DSLR and gives you a bit more ISO flexibility (plus a well dampened and snappy shutter).

It's not going to give you a clear IQ advantage in terms of color and tonal transitions. Especially if you're smitten with the colors you get from the S-006. As I did mention, it's a lot easier to get your S-007 to look like your S-006 then it is to get the M240 to look like an M9, but it's not going to be exactly the same. Not a bad thing BTW.

If you love your S-system, the S-007 is a great choice. But with just one lens.. It almost seems like a steep price to pay for the S-007 body. Maybe if you had a slightly fuller S-kit, I'd suggest the upgrade since the price of the body is split up over the amount of lenses you can use with it. Silly logic, but makes sense to me



Nov 29, 2015 at 10:28 PM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #3 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Speaking of the S-system... The 120 Macro is a great lens. Amazing for walking around (if you like little details), and pretty fantastic for portraits. Very clean, but not stark look.

http://www.emilyloke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/L1003543.jpg



Nov 29, 2015 at 10:29 PM
flash
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p.30 #4 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


adamdewilde wrote:
SL bad things:

1) IQ flaws, hard for me to explain. Hopefully fixed with firmware. Affects jpg files more so then raw files. Never see this on the S or M240. Similar inferior look to early A7 files. Kind of like the color tones are seen in steps. Happens mostly with brighter/almost blown out areas of the frame. I'd post samples, but I don't have M240 vs SL files to show the differences.. So I think samples would be meaningless as I don't want people to say that ALL cameras would do what the SL is doing.
I've shot enough
...Show more

I'm not getting any black frames with the T-M adaptor. My camera takes a second to turn on but after that it's blazing fast. I agree that it's sad and pathetic that there are no batteries available. The more I use the camera the more annoyed I get about the location of the focus assist button. I have also seen the sandpaper at 1600 but I'm not annoyed by it because I'm soooooo happy to have ISO50 available. Noctilux wide open in the middle of the day. Plus the high ISO is much better than the M.

I still haven't decided on the zoom. Zooms are a necessary evil for me and if I expect the SL to be part of my main system I'll have to get it, I suppose. On the other hand, when I need a zoom I rarely need 24MP so i can shoot with the fabulous fuji zooms (plus the 24MP XPro2 is coming Jan 15). I don't need to spend 7 grand (AU) only to find it's no better than the rather fantastic Fuji 16-55, which is nearly exactly the same range and DOF (the fuji is constant 2.8).

I know I could be quite happy with the SL and M as my only systems. But there are so many nice cameras out there it's hard to resist.

Gordon



Nov 29, 2015 at 10:32 PM
relms
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p.30 #5 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Adam, thank you for your comments. You are absolutely right - upgrading to the S007 makes little sense for use with only one lens; however, I already have my sights set on a couple of additional S lenses - the 24-S and the 100-S.


Nov 29, 2015 at 10:34 PM
davewolfs
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p.30 #6 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


That's a nice budget!

Steve Spencer wrote:
Personally, I plan to get the A7r II for my wife with a nice set of AF lenses and a few of the Loxia lenses, and an SL for me with a nice set of M lenses, a few R lenses, the S 120 Macro, and a few Milvus and Otus lenses. I think the two cameras will complement each other well and I think the SL in my case will complement the A7r II better than an M body would, but these decisions are likely to vary by individual.



Nov 29, 2015 at 10:38 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.30 #7 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Re: p.30 #4 above

Adam, love your portraiture and colour sense. Now, significantly, this wasn't shot with the SL and the 28-90.



Nov 29, 2015 at 11:05 PM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #8 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


relms wrote:
Adam, thank you for your comments. You are absolutely right - upgrading to the S007 makes little sense for use with only one lens; however, I already have my sights set on a couple of additional S lenses - the 24-S and the 100-S.


S-lenses are funny... At first I always dislike them (other then the 45S that was love at first snap). But for the rest of the S-lenses.. I start out thinking "what's the fuss" and then the more I use them, the more I realise that there isn't anything on the market I'd rather use.

The 35/70/120 are no brainer lenses. They match almost perfectly and are a joy to use once you get use to them. The 45S is on it's own (sort of) and so is the 100S. Though the 100S was the hardest for me to like.. It's now my favourite of them all. IF I had two S-007 units, I think I'd have the 45S and 100S permanently glued to them. And the S-006 I'd use for the 35/70/120 since the rendering is different, but good for the S-006 sensor.

The 30S I tried, but am not a 24mm kinda guy, the 24S I dare not touch as I have a feeling I'll want it. The 180 I've tried and I like it, but cannot find one at a compelling enough price to buy (slow speed has me hesitating for what it sells for). And the 120TS I have no interest in. The zoom also doesn't interest me, although I've seen AMAZING stuff shot with it.


I just did a REALLY quick test (I'm obviously procrastinating on the forums today)... Anyway, nothing scientific.. This is a typical exposure for me. Both large files look about the same in exposure. And both files are the same exact settings.. 200 ISO, f/2 (don't read the exif info it lies), min focus distance, exactly same time shooting (since I have two 50APO lenses I could test simultaneously) and 1000th of a second from both cameras.

These are JPG files out of camera. Both cameras produce better raw files, but for the sake of my gripe with the SL, I'll just show the JPG files.

See what I mean.. The SL doing the same crap like the Sony sensors.
http://www.jupitersnake.com/FM/Mtestsl.JPG
http://www.jupitersnake.com/FM/SLtestm.JPG


So to note.. When shooting with the M-P240 rarely if ever see stuff like this. It doesn't affect my day to day shooting. Nor my work. The S-system also doesn't have this issue. I noticed it a LOT with the Sony cameras in day to day work. Enough that I couldn't/wouldn't use them. The SL unfortunately is showing this a lot. I also noticed it with other photographers works. It isn't always a bright exposure thing. Over on Getdpi I see it in a few photographers works.. And ppl are claiming it's in the photoshopping of the file. But it's not..

And no it's not just the greens.. It's the reds and blues that do this as well.. Yellows and oranges of skin tones too.. As I said, I could show tons of samples of this, but no point in doing so, because I don't have a direct reference using the M to show that it is an SL and Sony specific problem.

EDIT: I'd just like to add, it's not a WB problem. I could do the test again with both WB the same. It wouldn't help, so I'm not going to bother.

Edited on Nov 29, 2015 at 11:16 PM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2015 at 11:09 PM
relms
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p.30 #9 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


adamdewilde wrote:
Speaking of the S-system... The 120 Macro is a great lens. Amazing for walking around (if you like little details), and pretty fantastic for portraits. Very clean, but not stark look.



I purchased a used 120 Macro from B&H, but had to send it back since it would not auto focus; however, I found it to be awesome in MF mode during my testing.



Nov 29, 2015 at 11:12 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.30 #10 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Thanks for the updates Adam! I've been eyeing the S-007 but it would be a big investment with the body and a few lenses....


Nov 29, 2015 at 11:34 PM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #11 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Gary Clennan wrote:
Thanks for the updates Adam! I've been eyeing the S-007 but it would be a big investment with the body and a few lenses....


Gary - I think you'd like it. But with the amount of hiking you do with your family. You'd have to spend less time at the dentist chair and more time at gold's gym... And then maybe wouldn't have enough $$ for the camera



Nov 29, 2015 at 11:36 PM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #12 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


relms wrote:
I purchased a used 120 Macro from B&H, but had to send it back since it would not auto focus; however, I found it to be awesome in MF mode during my testing.





Nov 29, 2015 at 11:37 PM
suteetat
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p.30 #13 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


uhoh7 wrote:
How would you compare working with the RAWS, D810 vs SL vs A7r2?

Shadow recovery on SL is quite good but not as impressive as A7r ii or D810. However i found that beside shadow/hilight and clarity, it feels like i need the least work on SL DNG file. AWB on SL is quite a bit better than A7r ii and Nikon. I would say that after i am done with post processing! The initial Raw file of SL is much closer to the end picture than both A7r ii and D810. Initially i really like Sony color but recently I feel like i really need to work more in post to get the color that i like. I really like the M240 looks but do not like rangefinder and EVF on M240 was rather poor. So for now SL is much better for me.



Nov 30, 2015 at 02:48 AM
flash
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p.30 #14 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Adam.

Looks like there's some conversion issues with the SL. There's some real science needed to convert a 14bit RAW file to an 8 bit jpeg and it looks like Leica and Sony don't do it well. The best at this is Fuji, by a long mile.

I don't look at Leica or Sony jpegs because they've been so disappointing in the past. Looks like nothing has changed.

Gordon



Nov 30, 2015 at 03:38 AM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #15 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


I was attempting the HDR look, just so I could see how far I could push the files. I don't shoot landscapes or HDR.. But it's always good to test.

I actually don't even know if you'd consider this HDR since I never shoot them.. But figured I'd post it since I went through the trouble of editing it and haven't posted anything with the SL yet, I might as well toss it up.
:P
http://www.jupitersnake.com/FM/SLHDR.jpg

All I did was push the highlights and shadows to opposite ends.



Nov 30, 2015 at 05:56 AM
Dewolff
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p.30 #16 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Are there any people who actually like the design?


Nov 30, 2015 at 06:53 AM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #17 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


flash wrote:
Adam.

Looks like there's some conversion issues with the SL. There's some real science needed to convert a 14bit RAW file to an 8 bit jpeg and it looks like Leica and Sony don't do it well. The best at this is Fuji, by a long mile.

I don't look at Leica or Sony jpegs because they've been so disappointing in the past. Looks like nothing has changed.

Gordon


I just seen your earlier post about the fuji zoom. I had a lot of fun with my little fuji APS-C camera. It came when I was selling off the M9 cameras in anticipation of the M240.. It was a good little guy, and it took M lenses well enough. I do remember liking the JPG files. But at the time, the only good lens was the 35/1.4, I had the macro too, but it was terrible to auto focus and I didn't much like it.



Nov 30, 2015 at 07:40 AM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #18 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Dewolff wrote:
Are there any people who actually like the design?


Design of the camera?

After the initial shock.. (I was shocked because I love the look of my M-P.) I settled down and realised that it's not so bad. The buttons are in the right places. It feels nice in my hand for extended periods of time. And other then the fact that you can't set the image magnification button.. It's really quite ergonomically well thought out.

I don't see anything terribly wrong with it. I don't like how the Leica engraving is just a plate built into the main body. They could have done away with the plate and engraving all together. The red dot is fine enough branding.

Really, it doesn't bother me anymore. And although I'm a HUGE fan of the M-P body.. I wouldn't spend the extra $$ getting an a la carte version anymore (when the MP first came out, I tried to get Germany to make me a custom one at an inflated price I would have gladly paid at the time... They lost their chance).



Nov 30, 2015 at 07:45 AM
suteetat
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p.30 #19 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


adamdewilde wrote:
Design of the camera?

After the initial shock.. (I was shocked because I love the look of my M-P.) I settled down and realised that it's not so bad. The buttons are in the right places. It feels nice in my hand for extended periods of time. And other then the fact that you can't set the image magnification button.. It's really quite ergonomically well thought out.

I don't see anything terribly wrong with it. I don't like how the Leica engraving is just a plate built into the main body. They could have done away with the plate and engraving
...Show more
I did not like the look at all when I first saw the picture. However, when I saw the real thing at a local store, I rather like it as far as the body is concerned but the 24-90 is a bit too big and proportionately not a good match for the body, aesthetically wise.

I like the layout just fine but agree that focus magnification button would be much better for me if it is on the right rather than left row. That's much main complain and I wish there is a way to move it to a different button as I cannot reach the button with my left fingers while my left hand is on the focus ring




Nov 30, 2015 at 08:25 AM
adamdewilde
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p.30 #20 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


suteetat wrote:
I did not like the look at all when I first saw the picture. However, when I saw the real thing at a local store, I rather like it as far as the body is concerned but the 24-90 is a bit too big and proportionately not a good match for the body, aesthetically wise.

I like the layout just fine but agree that focus magnification button would be much better for me if it is on the right rather than left row. That's much main complain and I wish there is a way to move it to a different
...Show more

It should be on the little multiway button when you press. Also where you spot meter, should be where the image zooms in.. Not into the center then having to move it about.



Nov 30, 2015 at 09:09 AM
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