charles.K wrote:
The more I read and compare the specs of the SL 601, the more I feel Leica has missed the target.
For the size of this beast, there are many better options for FF, cost effective and a large range of lenses available. The SL 601 does not have the best sensor, it is large/heavy and it does not really do anything better than what is available. There is only one lens available for now and of course you can use M mount lenses. The M lenses do not even perform as well as on the M240!
Leica have some of the best lens designers, and really should be producing in parallel Leica FE mount lenses. The market for the A7 series is growing, and having high end Leica FE mount lenses would over shadow most of the Loxia lenses even at a higher cost. You don't need to compete with AF, but have small/light lenses that would bring out the best in the latest A7's.
Maybe the target are the professionals, but most pros I speak to are cost conscious and very mindful of what equipment they invest in. Knowing there is basically only one AF lens available for now, most will not take the plunge.
I have loved the M9/MM and M240 as these cameras are seriously "cool" and unique and fun to use.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Charlie, it is not the best 4K specs because it is only 4K with a Super 35mm image circle. The A7s nearly the same 4K specs and uses the whole width of the sensor. That is a big deal for both depth of field and wide angles. The A7s will also ave better high ISO which is very nice for video as well. Still the SL should be second to the A7s with excellent 4K for the Super 35mm image circle and the samples so far look great. Nasty artifacts are well in check.
Not an attack.. Just pointing out some humour in that logic.
So I have to buy two cameras to beat the SL? But yet both of those cameras don't beat the SL at everything. One beats it at resolution and one at high ISO. IF MP and ISO was my main priority (and I didn't hate the UI and Sony colors) I'd consider doing that. But then I'd consider the price... And opt to pay a bit more for all the OTHER features that Leica got better then Sony.. Who by the way is an industry GIANT. Just saying...
P.S. I am not hopeful for the SLs ability to do good video.. There's more to good looking video then just specs. I know this after using the S-007.
Steve Spencer wrote:
That would be great Rich. It seems to be clearly a lot better than the unmodified Sony A7 cameras, but does it match the m240? We really have only report that it is slightly worse, but that just seemed to be an opinion without careful testing. It would be good to hear what Leica says.
I was told that it's the best performing sensor for M lenses. BUT I don't disbelieve Jono. So I'm conflicted and will just have to run the tests myself. I have the lenses for it, and the smart adapter (profile corrections). I just don't have the SL yet. Won't have it until I get back to SG on the 26th of Nov.
I would have a VERY VERY hard time believing that it won't perform at least as good. Simply speaking.. Leica has the tech to make it happen on the M240, why cripple the SL? Maybe due to problems with the SL lenses and the M-sensor micro-lenses? But doubtful since the R lenses work fine on the M240.
how is that innovating? what does the 1DX shoot (i honestly don't know)? your old nex-5n shot 10fps. i guess it's new for leica?
don't pay much attention to that, is a joystick innovative?
i'm pretty sure they're not first to do this and/or they did it in the x1 or something already. what i really want is picture in picture magnification for framing while focusing magnified, which somebody (maybe leica has already done several years ago?).
it looks great, it's just off the shelf components from panasonic or somebody with some decent optics on it though no? i'm sure other mirrorless makers would include something like that too if they made a camera for the $7k price point. is there nothing similar in real video cameras?
my interest is blinded by the bulk to the point that i haven't read any reviews other than looking at the pics.
the camera looks nice to me except for the styling and size, but not innovative. i don't really feel like innovation in camera bodies is leica's thing anymore anyway. they're more about premium feel combined with simple functional design (and great optics).
Yes there are HQ EVF adapters for high end video cameras.. They cost as much as the SL, and don't perform as well. But it's not apples to apples spec wise.
rscheffler wrote:
The GXR had it, though the magnified picture was quite pixelated and IMO useless. What they did have, that I preferred over typical focus peaking, was a monochromatic image with kind of an embossed edges effect. Not sure exactly how to describe it. In the GXR clique it was referred to as 'Predator view'.
IMO, magnified view is fine for stationary subjects, but a pain for anything moving. I'm hoping that as EVF resolution increases, it will be easier to eyeball focus placement without magnification. This is one of the things I believe really sets apart RF focusing. You get a very clear idea of how far off your focus is by the degree of double image divergence within the RF patch, yet it doesn't seem to distract from seeing the entire scene. For some reason I always find that focusing off an EVF disassociates me from what I'm photographing...
Yes, that has got to be in the first firmware fix. It would seem like such a basic function. The M9 and M240 allow you to use the rear dial for exposure compensation... Why not the SL?...Show more →
davewolfs wrote:
Yes it can only be controlled through a menu. That's a mistake.
"Some subjects are made up predominantly of excessively light or dark surfaces, for example large areas of snow or a frame-filling black steam locomotive. In P, S, and A exposure modes, it may be more useful in such cases to set an appropriate exposure compensation instead of using metering memory lock each time. The same applies if you want to ensure an identical exposure for several pictures."
By the time you go to the menu the locomotive is gone.
This is why I shoot manual mode. But Leica will never fix this. They never fixed any of my Q complaints. Even though I called Germany and had a very long conversation with a bewildered German fellow who probably regretted admitting that he understood English.
All they would technically have to do is set the firmware so the shutter dial is the EC when in AP mode. Isn't that what happens? I need to read the manual.. Nothing better to do while I want for the SL to arrive.
BUT on the S-007 and S-006 it's pretty easy to change the EC. It's like one button.. Kinda like changing ISO on the M240. So the SL should be the same. I mean it looks the same from the back..
sebboh wrote:
maybe all those broken rx1s will have functional shutters that i can stick in all my lenses, maybe i can figure out a way to stick an fm2 shutter in there, or maybe if you take apart enough cameras you'll free a genie that can magic you the perfect camera...
Umm... The RX1 is a leaf shutter.. So how exactly are you going to salvage it?
Also one more random thought... None of you have used the S-system right? IF you had, you'd understand the economic genius of it all. The S-007 is a BIT more tricky. But it also has LV movie mode etc etc going for it. A bit more complex then the S-006.. But still nothing unnecessary, and really nothing lacking.
I'm hopeful for the SL. It looks like it was well thought out UI and ergonomic wise. At the very least, it'll be on par with the S007.
Though I'd bet someone a starbucks card that the EVF ONLY mode when activated. Will not let me see my images on the LCD screen OR let me see menu items on the LCD screen. THIS has been a problem with Sony since the A7 and I've written to Sony tons of times. Also a problem on the Q, and I've written to Leica AND called in to discuss it.
Nobody seems to care or understand the frustration of it all.
Imagine I'm shooting a 15 hour wedding with EVF only to conserve battery. Switching on and off my camera also helps because the Q starts up uber quick. Then all of a sudden (and it's rare). I need to access the menu for something. I stand there with my eye up to the EVF like a statue navigating the menu system while people are wondering if I went catatonic.
That or when the mother of the bride insists on seeing the image on the back of my screen, because she's positive she blinked and ruined the image. And I have to explain that I can't show the image on the back of the screen.. Or I just give up and dive into the menu using the EVF while everyone wonders if I've gone catatonic again!
Oct 22, 2015 at 05:53 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
adamdewilde wrote:
Not an attack.. Just pointing out some humour in that logic.
So I have to buy two cameras to beat the SL? But yet both of those cameras don't beat the SL at everything. One beats it at resolution and one at high ISO. IF MP and ISO was my main priority (and I didn't hate the UI and Sony colors) I'd consider doing that. But then I'd consider the price... And opt to pay a bit more for all the OTHER features that Leica got better then Sony.. Who by the way is an industry GIANT. Just saying...
P.S. I am not hopeful for the SLs ability to do good video.. There's more to good looking video then just specs. I know this after using the S-007. ...Show more →
So far the tests of video on the SL look very good. The S 007 has some good specs, but the read out seemed to be a bit slow so you got some rolling shutter. The readout is supposed to be better on the SL and so far all the reports have been that it is produces great video. To get the best you will need to shoot in Super 35 and ideally record to an external recorder, then you will get 4:2:2 10 bit colour which is something even the A7s II can't do. I think the fact that Leica is making a PL mount adapter and playing up their cine lenses suggests that they have some confidence in this cameras video.
adamdewilde wrote:
Though I'd bet someone a starbucks card that the EVF ONLY mode when activated. Will not let me see my images on the LCD screen OR let me see menu items on the LCD screen. THIS has been a problem with Sony since the A7 and I've written to Sony tons of times. Also a problem on the Q, and I've written to Leica AND called in to discuss it.
Nobody seems to care or understand the frustration of it all.
In his SL review Jono Slack says the camera has a button next to the viewfinder eyepiece that allows you to cycle through VF only / LCD only / Auto switching modes without menu diving. A big improvement IMHO.
rscheffler wrote:
... But I also have to say that the M shutter release feel needs some work. My M9's release always felt gritty. The M240 is better, but could be improved a fair amount.
Ron,
Leica knows how a shutter release should feel; they got it right in the Q. I have shot with scores of cameras over the years, and the Q has the smoothest shutter release of any of them. Fingers crossed that the same will be true of the SL's shutter.
Steve Spencer wrote:
So far the tests of video on the SL look very good. The S 007 has some good specs, but the read out seemed to be a bit slow so you got some rolling shutter. The readout is supposed to be better on the SL and so far all the reports have been that it is produces great video. To get the best you will need to shoot in Super 35 and ideally record to an external recorder, then you will get 4:2:2 10 bit colour which is something even the A7s II can't do. I think the fact that Leica is making a PL mount adapter and playing up their cine lenses suggests that they have some confidence in this cameras video. ...Show more →
Good to know. I think the 50APO would make for an excellent cine lens. The few times I've done video on the M240 I've loved the look.
It seems like it's one button to dive into menu followed by changing the setting. That seems odd to me but maybe the S works the same. Ming seemed to complain about it as well and rightfully so. I don't use manual at all and always shoot Aperture mode. Manual would rectify this but then you need to be changing shutter all the time.
Another thing. Given the size of the EVF it would be nice if they added a mode so that when you trigger a zoom with manual lenses you can still see your full scene so you know your composition and framing. Nobody has this except for Fuji I don't think. I don't know why because it would be very useful.
telyt wrote:
In his SL review Jono Slack says the camera has a button next to the viewfinder eyepiece that allows you to cycle through VF only / LCD only / Auto switching modes without menu diving. A big improvement IMHO.
YES!!!! I must have missed that. Though still not ideal. And a bit of a waste of a button IMHO. But I'll take it. As it's probably the best I'll get from Germany.
davewolfs wrote:
It seems like it's one button to dive into menu followed by changing the setting. That seems odd to me but maybe the S works the same. Ming seemed to complain about it as well and rightfully so. I don't use manual at all and always shoot Aperture mode. Manual would rectify this but then you need to be changing shutter all the time.
Another thing. Given the size of the EVF it would be nice if they added a mode so that when you trigger a zoom with manual lenses you can still see your full scene so you know your composition and framing. Nobody has this except for Fuji I don't think. I don't know why because it would be very useful. ...Show more →
I mentioned somewhere else, that I agree with that idea.. Picture in Picture would be AWESOME and useful. I don't know how possible it is. It might not be a firmware thing, but a processor/chip limitation.
relms wrote:
Ron,
Leica knows how a shutter release should feel; they got it right in the Q. I have shot with scores of cameras over the years, and the Q has the smoothest shutter release of any of them. Fingers crossed that the same will be true of the SL's shutter.
Not a fan of the S-007 shutter release.. Not at all.
Never noticed the Q shutter release. Guess it means I like it!
rscheffler wrote:
I would be really happy with a mirroless 1DX, with very similar button/dial placement, albeit one that was considerably slimmed and made somewhat lighter without compromising rugged build quality. The SL seems the closest mirrorless to this ideal, but without some of the ergonomic considerations.
Very close to my take on this as well. It's not a body I would get as it's not there yet compared to a 1DX but it is good to see a ML body that is not yet another toy build. Would love to see Sony put all their tech into a body that competes with the 1DX/D4s. What could Sony do with a $5000 price point?
Oct 22, 2015 at 09:45 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
adamdewilde wrote:
Good to know. I think the 50APO would make for an excellent cine lens. The few times I've done video on the M240 I've loved the look.
The 50 APO is a fantastic lens and the look would be great, but the M lenses really have too short of a focus throw for video and no way to de-click the aperture. You would be better off with the Arri/Zeiss 50 t/1.9 ultra prime for video on the SL and it would work well with the PL to L mount adapter. It would cost a fair bit more than the 50 APO (believe it or not) but not nearly as much as the T/1.3 master prime. Those Arri/Zeiss are absolutely gorgeous lenses.
adamdewilde wrote:
Not a fan of the S-007 shutter release.. Not at all.
Never noticed the Q shutter release. Guess it means I like it!
I thought you were saying it is good, No? That will be really disappointing! S2 and S006's shutter is the biggest complain I have about the system along with no LV.
CaNikon seems manage to nail this with almost any body they introduced.
