Luvwine wrote:
Interesting. I had read about the hope for auto aperture but don't find that a big deal. Metadata is also not a big deal to me. However, I had not previously considered corrective profiles. Will they be "baked in"'to the raw or simply applied after the fact? Lightroom profiles already cover most R lenses for distortion correction. Think there will be a quality advantage or is this another nice convenience but that ultimately does not improve what is already available?
freaklikeme wrote:
You'll have to get confirmation from an M-shooter, but I believe they're side-car'd on to the DNGs and picked up by LR.
When an M is set to detect the lens and apply lens profile corrections, it bakes those corrections into the DNG. But the corrections are for color shift and partial vignetting. Not for distortion.
sebboh wrote:
i never used any of the maxxums but i'll take your word for it. my UI demands are pretty minimal for a camera the way i shoot. i just need shutter speed, EC, iso, and some kinda shutter (AE lock is nice too, but not necessary). the m controls seem pretty good for me. if only they'd slim the m240 down a bit and put this evf where the rangefinder is... the a7 controls i need are all right under my finger tips, so my only real complaint is the terrible shutter feel.
As someone who has shot Canon 1-series cameras since the original EOS-1, I found the M a very easy transition, and shoot both side by side without problem, despite the massive difference in control layout. I agree, it would be great to see a slimmed M, but the problem is the lens mount to sensor depth combined with the rear LCD package. I don't see how Leica can make the M considerably slimmer, unless they do something like with the Q with cutouts as grip surfaces, rather than the typical raised grip style. That said, a future 'ML' would allow them to slim down the body a fair amount, given the shallower lens mount to sensor depth. But I also have to say that the M shutter release feel needs some work. My M9's release always felt gritty. The M240 is better, but could be improved a fair amount.
Oct 21, 2015 at 11:06 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Yes it can only be controlled through a menu. That's a mistake.
"Some subjects are made up predominantly of excessively light or dark surfaces, for example large areas of snow or a frame-filling black steam locomotive. In P, S, and A exposure modes, it may be more useful in such cases to set an appropriate exposure compensation instead of using metering memory lock each time. The same applies if you want to ensure an identical exposure for several pictures."
By the time you go to the menu the locomotive is gone.
charles.K wrote:
Leica have some of the best lens designers, and really should be producing in parallel Leica FE mount lenses. The market for the A7 series is growing, and having high end Leica FE mount lenses would over shadow most of the Loxia lenses even at a higher cost. You don't need to compete with AF, but have small/light lenses that would bring out the best in the latest A7's.
Stop it, Charles. You're making me drool.
But if you ever convince them to do it, please work on Rodenstock next.
telyt wrote: The viewfinder sounds very enticing but I don't see it as a 'must-have' until the R adapter L becomes available, and then only if there's more to it than a dumb tube. I have to believe that if this adapter won't be available for another year there has to be more to it than just a dumb tube. I figure I can save enough $$$$ for it in a year.
However I reserve the right to contradict myself once I have the camera in my hands and peer into the viewfinder.
Yes, no one should ever have that right taken away from them.
rscheffler wrote:
This is another factor about the a7 series that frustrates me. Menu diving to move the AF point around, IIRC. There isn't a dedicated, fluid, easy way to do it, such as with a joystick. Yet for an AF dependent camera, you'd think this would be a fundamental design requirement! It's one of the first things I felt was missing when I tried the first a7 way back when...
Push the C1 button (which is right next to the shutter button) and you get direct access to move the focus point using either the direction pad or the wheels. What's so hard about that? It takes maybe a 1/4 of a second to activate. Then tap the C1 button again to magnify. No menu required.
rscheffler wrote:
I don't see how Leica can make the M considerably slimmer, unless they do something like with the Q with cutouts as grip surfaces, rather than the typical raised grip style.
they could try what sony did with the rx1 to get the sensor much closer to the back of the camera. my recollections is that the m9 and m240 both have quite a bit larger distance from lcd surface to the sensor plane than the rx1 (the a7 also has about 1cm greater distance than the rx1). it would almost certainly require a more expensive lcd and a complete redesign of how the camera is assembled, but i feel like that is doable for $6-7k camera. it would improve the ergonomics quite a bit for me (i like the cutouts too).
freaklikeme wrote:
Won't you need a doner shutter as well?
maybe all those broken rx1s will have functional shutters that i can stick in all my lenses, maybe i can figure out a way to stick an fm2 shutter in there, or maybe if you take apart enough cameras you'll free a genie that can magic you the perfect camera...
rscheffler wrote:
When an M is set to detect the lens and apply lens profile corrections, it bakes those corrections into the DNG. But the corrections are for color shift and partial vignetting. Not for distortion.
And there's a real answer. So it must be the sensor toppings that give the M240 a slight edge with those lenses over an a7II with a stock filter, but it isn't as though the a7II made the lenses unusable.
sebboh wrote:
maybe all those broken rx1s will have functional shutters that i can stick in all my lenses, maybe i can figure out a way to stick an fm2 shutter in there, or maybe if you take apart enough cameras you'll free a genie that can magic you the perfect camera...
Uh-huh. Interesting plan. One I may have to use at work, though there he will be a Cisco genie.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I hope that Leica Reps can fill me in somewhat about the performance of M lenses on the camera tomorrow. I doubt that I will be able to get any usable files out of the camera to review after the show.
rscheffler wrote:
This is another factor about the a7 series that frustrates me. Menu diving to move the AF point around, IIRC. There isn't a dedicated, fluid, easy way to do it, such as with a joystick. Yet for an AF dependent camera, you'd think this would be a fundamental design requirement! It's one of the first things I felt was missing when I tried the first a7 way back when...
flash wrote:
Push the C1 button (which is right next to the shutter button) and you get direct access to move the focus point using either the direction pad or the wheels. What's so hard about that? It takes maybe a 1/4 of a second to activate. Then tap the C1 button again to magnify. No menu required.
Gordon
Thanks. It has been some time since I've used an a7, so memory might be a bit foggy. But remember I didn't find it to be intuitive. A dedicated interface would be preferred, but considering that the a7 series also has the option for face/eye AF, etc., users may be less inclined to select focus point manually? The direction pad is IMO a UI disaster. It requires too light of a touch.
Oct 22, 2015 at 12:48 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
davewolfs wrote:
Yes it can only be controlled through a menu. That's a mistake.
"Some subjects are made up predominantly of excessively light or dark surfaces, for example large areas of snow or a frame-filling black steam locomotive. In P, S, and A exposure modes, it may be more useful in such cases to set an appropriate exposure compensation instead of using metering memory lock each time. The same applies if you want to ensure an identical exposure for several pictures."
By the time you go to the menu the locomotive is gone.
If you read there are three ways to control it. The menu which may work if you are shooting interiors with bright light outside or something like that.I wouldn't use the general menu, but you can put it on your favourites menu. i will probably have it there and use it for some situations. You can also map it to one of the soft keys--which is what I will be doing. You can also use the gesture thing on the touch screen--I have no clue if that is a reasonable thing to do or not.
Steve Spencer wrote:
My take is that as usual for Leica, shooting this Leica creates a unique and enjoyable shooting experience. This camera compared to any other mirrorless camera has a much better EVF, a much faster responsiveness, and a much simpler interface. it brings a nice view of the scene, a snappy responsiveness, and it is simple to operate. You may not like the size, but there will be people that prefer this to a smaller camera. it can use all the lenses that Leica makes right now. Together the shooting experience plus the range of lenses that can be used make this a compelling prospect to some and i would include myself in that group. I won't pre order or get it until I know a lot more about it, and it is really too expensive for me to get it, but I do find the package of features very compelling. By the way, I think M lenses performance will be very close to their performance on the M240, but we will have to wait to see how that testing pans out....Show more →
Steve, I have loved the M9/MM and M240 and lenses have just been amazing! It slowed my process of taking shots and made me think the lighting/design and composition of my images. I joined on the first page when Paul initiated the Leica thread in 2010 and it has been a fantastic journey.
The Leica experience will continue, and I feel most will stick to their M9, MM and M240's for now. But Leica really need to bring out an updated M240 body style camera. I would like see the best in the class sensor/electronics and ergonomics in the body, as the lenses already exist and they are truly awesome.
They don't need to reinvent the wheel as they have a huge inventory of amazing lenses out there. Leica has done decades of work in bringing these lenses to the market and I just don't see the logic of alternative system that has one lens to offer!!
If Leica truly redesigned best in its class M body without the RF this would reduce the cost both in manufacturing and the massive ongoing maintenance needed for re-calibrating the lenses and M bodies. This is a major issue for Leica both in cost and implementation. Of course Leica would need to still have the maintenance for the existing M bodies.
I really think Leica has put the "cart in front of horse" this time..?
sebboh wrote:
yeah, i can hear that coming from a leica rep...
waist level shooting and just guessing the framing is not fun for me, definitely prefer the reverse image of a TLR to that.
i guess you're used to just guessing framing though shooting an m and all though.
i quite like handheld waist level shooting (one of my big complaints about the original rx1 was you couldn't do this), not sure how or why you'd use a tripod for that?
I was just thinking of the odd time I like to shoot macro or product shots on weird angles with the tripod. And that a flip-out screen would be nice. But again, I don't mind the idea of using the phone or iPad if the software works seamlessly. The Q needs improvements (though they did update the app recently.. I will have to check now that I've remembered).
freaklikeme wrote:
Assuming they follow through with the M's corrective profiles for the last-model ROM'd R's, then you'll get native corrective profiles based on performance with the sensor. From what I've been shown, this is particularly helpful for lenses like the vII 19, the UWA zoom, and the Summilux 35.
There's also the hope the adapter will allow for ROM reading and auto-aperture, both of which are on the wish list for many R shooters.
Almost 100% that this will be the case.
The estimated times for adapters make me believe this is so. The R adapter will take longer then the S adapter to arrive. It's not going to be a dumb adapter.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I just got back from Shenandoah NP for Autumn color several hours ago. But, providing the camera is at the Leica Booth tomorrow, I expect to handle the camera with an assortment of lenses, both R and M. As Doug (telyt) has mentioned, if the R adapter will not be available until the end of 2016 as far as I am concerned Leica has shot themselves in the foot and I will voice that opinion. At present I am not looking for AF lenses and I have 3 M mount, 17 R mount (including telephoto and Zoom lenses (plus Bellows system), plus 1 Canon FD lens that should work on the camera. So, right now, if I purchased the camera, I would have 17 orphans until the adapter is available.
the a7 controls i need are all right under my finger tips, so my only real complaint is the terrible shutter feel.
The viewfinder sounds very enticing but I don't see it as a 'must-have' until the R adapter L becomes available, and then only if there's more to it than a dumb tube. I have to believe that if this adapter won't be available for another year there has to be more to it than just a dumb tube. I figure I can save enough $$$$ for it in a year.
