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Archive 2015 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

azenis
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p.8 #1 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

For the market that RX1* are after, having a top notch IQ in a compact body trumps anything else. If you think that for some less money, you could get the A7RII and..... this camera is not for you.

I remember back in the days when I had my Fuji Natura S, it was the ultimate street photography camera. Fixed lens, film, discreet and nothing but the best overall user experience for a street photog: You point, frame, (move back and forth) and shoot.

It's out of my price range, but the RX1 II is definitely a camera I'd have on my list when it drops below 2k. This or the Leica Q.

Edited on Oct 14, 2015 at 05:48 PM · View previous versions

Oct 14, 2015 at 05:46 PM

cputeq
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p.8 #2 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

GMPhotography wrote:
You guys have real jobs outside photography . Totally disagree with you. Have no idea, I have to invest thousands of dollars to run a business . You walk into a job and get paid no investment output. Walk in my shoes my friend. These are investments to earn money. Most people never have to do that

Well, these could be investments to earn money, or they could be purchased with true profits from the business and that profit happens to be disposable.

I believe this is how Sony sees this camera and how it's being positioned - a nice camera for anyone (pro or no) that wants a really good 35mm welded to a camera.

You seem to be approaching this with a business case analysis, in which I'd agree with you - a horrible purchase for a business unless you can make money using it.

The others are just arguing from the other perspective - disposable income, no matter how you actually make your money.

I, on the other hand, am in the military - I'll be perpetually without the disposable income to buy this

Oct 14, 2015 at 05:47 PM

millsart
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p.8 #3 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

As someone who's made a living shooting for the past decade, I totally get where Guy is coming from. Photography is a weird business in a sense, because the gear that the rest of the world considers a luxury purchase made with disposable income is sort of required, especially if like me, you make your living as a sports shooter.

My 400mm f2.8 was worth about 5x was the car I was driving was worth, but one certainly needs long (and fast) glass to compete with all the other photogs on the sidelines.

So here I am at one point, buying these crazy expensive luxury items, as if I was a CEO et al., who could afford that stuff, yet I was eating ramen noodles and otherwise living pretty poor for a number of years.

Wasn't exactly good return on sports gear either. After the wire service cut, I think I was making $600 for a full page photo in magazines like SI, and not like I was getting full page spreads every single week.

We then started to get a lot of the weekend warrior types exchanging images for credentials to games and such. Not knocking people who do this, combining two hobbies is great. Bunch of the guys who used to spend $1000 on A deck tickets for a big game are now on the sidelines, getting to see the game and enjoy their photo hobby and all they have to do is give away their images. (And that is another story all together...)

Anyways though, these guys usually had the best gear you could buy, two Nikon D4s, RRS plates on them etc. Just throwing silly money at buying "the best" of everything, and again, that is fine and good for them. Not buy business to tell people how to spend their money.

Difference between them and myself though is after that NFL game on Sunday, they go back to the law practice or dental practice etc, where they make their 100K+ a year which allowed them to go buy $30k of gear for the fun of it.

On Monday I sit at home, editing all my images, and don't have any "day job" to pay the bills, so what I make from the game is what keeps the roof over my head.

This isn't a complaint as I choose what I wanted to do as a living, and I could of very well been a dentist or anything else. I don't knock anyone with a day job, or any job for that matter, nor do I knock anyone for spending lots of money on a hobby etc. Likewise, just because I might own expensive gear, doesn't mean I'm well off.

Just a bit of perspective, from a full time pro, who has since gone back to school and working to finish my doctorate, so that I can hopefully become gainfully employed and actually become a hobbyist with lots of disposable money to throw at photography

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:04 PM

GMPhotography
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p.8 #4 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

I could have not even come close to writing this and describing it as well as you have . Spot on

millsart wrote:
As someone who's made a living shooting for the past decade, I totally get where Guy is coming from. Photography is a weird business in a sense, because the gear that the rest of the world considers a luxury purchase made with disposable income is sort of required, especially if like me, you make your living as a sports shooter.

My 400mm f2.8 was worth about 5x was the car I was driving was worth, but one certainly needs long (and fast) glass to compete with all the other photogs on the sidelines.

So here I am at one point, buying these crazy expensive luxury items, as if I was a CEO et al., who could afford that stuff, yet I was eating ramen noodles and otherwise living pretty poor for a number of years.

Wasn't exactly good return on sports gear either. After the wire service cut, I think I was making $600 for a full page photo in magazines like SI, and not like I was getting full page spreads every single week.

We then started to get a lot of the weekend warrior types exchanging images for credentials to games and such. Not knocking people who do this, combining two hobbies is great. Bunch of the guys who used to spend $1000 on A deck tickets for a big game are now on the sidelines, getting to see the game and enjoy their photo hobby and all they have to do is give away their images. (And that is another story all together...)

Anyways though, these guys usually had the best gear you could buy, two Nikon D4s, RRS plates on them etc. Just throwing silly money at buying "the best" of everything, and again, that is fine and good for them. Not buy business to tell people how to spend their money.

Difference between them and myself though is after that NFL game on Sunday, they go back to the law practice or dental practice etc, where they make their 100K+ a year which allowed them to go buy $30k of gear for the fun of it.

On Monday I sit at home, editing all my images, and don't have any "day job" to pay the bills, so what I make from the game is what keeps the roof over my head.

This isn't a complaint as I choose what I wanted to do as a living, and I could of very well been a dentist or anything else. I don't knock anyone with a day job, or any job for that matter, nor do I knock anyone for spending lots of money on a hobby etc. Likewise, just because I might own expensive gear, doesn't mean I'm well off.

Just a bit of perspective, from a full time pro, who has since gone back to school and working to finish my doctorate, so that I can hopefully become gainfully employed and actually become a hobbyist with lots of disposable money to throw at photography

...Show more →

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:26 PM

GMPhotography
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p.8 #5 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

Don't laugh at one time I was a full time employee as the chief photographer for 16 years. I spent there money . Best job on the planet for me a shooting Pro and spending someone else's money for my toys. That was fun but when your a freelancer it all changes.

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:29 PM

johnvanr
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p.8 #6 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

that lens can't be cheap to manufacture, you think they should lower the price of the camera because it has a lens they could sell for nearly $2000 dollar lens attached to it?

They could go two ways:

- look at manufacturing costs, add a reasonable profit margin and make a killing on volume
- same thing, but add a much higher margin per unit and make less on volume

Leica always does the latter, in part because it doesn't even have the capacity to produce large volumes and because it has built its brand on being unobtainable to many.

These considerations don't apply to Sony. These cameras would sell like hotcakes if they were $1,000 cheaper. This would increase Sony's marketshare. Just look at all the people here who say they'd love to have one, if only it were cheaper.

Isn't that what we think Sony is aiming for, marketshare and beating Nikon out of the number two position?

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:30 PM

JakAHearts
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p.8 #7 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

Ah my gerd...

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:32 PM

GMPhotography
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p.8 #8 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

I think the argument mostly is okay I'm going to spend the 3200 so which is the better investment. A7rII or this. Obviously the A7rII gives you more options and this just wets your you know what.

Never said I don't want one I do. My perspective is just more forced and not as free as the hobbyist. That's all

But I will say for you serving our country find a way and enjoy it. Have fun

I say that with respect

cputeq wrote:
Well, these could be investments to earn money, or they could be purchased with true profits from the business and that profit happens to be disposable.

I believe this is how Sony sees this camera and how it's being positioned - a nice camera for anyone (pro or no) that wants a really good 35mm welded to a camera.

You seem to be approaching this with a business case analysis, in which I'd agree with you - a horrible purchase for a business unless you can make money using it.

The others are just arguing from the other perspective - disposable income, no...Show more →

Edited on Oct 14, 2015 at 06:40 PM · View previous versions

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:37 PM

millsart
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p.8 #9 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

johnvanr wrote:
These considerations don't apply to Sony. These cameras would sell like hotcakes if they were $1,000 cheaper. This would increase Sony's marketshare. Just look at all the people here who say they'd love to have one, if only it were cheaper.

Isn't that what we think Sony is aiming for, marketshare and beating Nikon out of the number two position?

Even if it was a $1000 cheaper, and sold like "hot cakes" I doubt I'd ever bump into another person out shooting one.

Its a niche product even at $2300, and even as the RX1 is now that you can pick it up for around $1200 or so. Fixed lens cameras will never be an item popular with the masses regardless of price.

We are 1% of the 1% here. Even if every FM regular did buy one, it would be only a few hundred cameras

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:40 PM

hiepphotog
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p.8 #10 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

johnvanr wrote:
They could go two ways:

- look at manufacturing costs, add a reasonable profit margin and make a killing on volume
- same thing, but add a much higher margin per unit and make less on volume

Leica always does the latter, in part because it doesn't even have the capacity to produce large volumes and because it has built its brand on being unobtainable to many.

These considerations don't apply to Sony. These cameras would sell like hotcakes if they were $1,000 cheaper. This would increase Sony's marketshare. Just look at all the people here who say they'd love to have...Show more →

Price will drop surely. And now that Sony doesn't have an online store, it's easier for them to issue any discount at their discretion. As with any tech product, they need to reel in as much early adopters as possible with their still sane price for a nice margin for the next product cycle.

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:41 PM

dasrocket
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p.8 #11 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

I have a number of cyclists that I have been racing for the past 20 years, many of which are local and international competitors; Many a time we pitched in for the gas to a race, yet we opened the doors to bring out $7,000 bikes. One of us did that professionally and was able to support a much larger cost for the gear.

Photography is not dissimilar to any other hobby and /or profession that requires expensive tools of the trade. Substitute "Cameras", for Bikes, Computers, Fishing boats and so on...

millsart wrote:
As someone who's made a living shooting for the past decade, I totally get where Guy is coming from. Photography is a weird business in a sense, because the gear that the rest of the world considers a luxury purchase made with disposable income is sort of required, especially if like me, you make your living as a sports shooter.

My 400mm f2.8 was worth about 5x was the car I was driving was worth, but one certainly needs long (and fast) glass to compete with all the other photogs on the sidelines.

So here I am at one point, buying these crazy expensive luxury items, as if I was a CEO et al., who could afford that stuff, yet I was eating ramen noodles and otherwise living pretty poor for a number of years.

Wasn't exactly good return on sports gear either. After the wire service cut, I think I was making $600 for a full page photo in magazines like SI, and not like I was getting full page spreads every single week.

We then started to get a lot of the weekend warrior types exchanging images for credentials to games and such. Not knocking people who do this, combining two hobbies is great. Bunch of the guys who used to spend $1000 on A deck tickets for a big game are now on the sidelines, getting to see the game and enjoy their photo hobby and all they have to do is give away their images. (And that is another story all together...)

Anyways though, these guys usually had the best gear you could buy, two Nikon D4s, RRS plates on them etc. Just throwing silly money at buying "the best" of everything, and again, that is fine and good for them. Not buy business to tell people how to spend their money.

Difference between them and myself though is after that NFL game on Sunday, they go back to the law practice or dental practice etc, where they make their 100K+ a year which allowed them to go buy $30k of gear for the fun of it.

On Monday I sit at home, editing all my images, and don't have any "day job" to pay the bills, so what I make from the game is what keeps the roof over my head.

This isn't a complaint as I choose what I wanted to do as a living, and I could of very well been a dentist or anything else. I don't knock anyone with a day job, or any job for that matter, nor do I knock anyone for spending lots of money on a hobby etc. Likewise, just because I might own expensive gear, doesn't mean I'm well off.

Just a bit of perspective, from a full time pro, who has since gone back to school and working to finish my doctorate, so that I can hopefully become gainfully employed and actually become a hobbyist with lots of disposable money to throw at photography

...Show more →

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:41 PM

curious80
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p.8 #12 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

millsart wrote:
As someone who's made a living shooting for the past decade, I totally get where Guy is coming from. Photography is a weird business in a sense, because the gear that the rest of the world considers a luxury purchase made with disposable income is sort of required, especially if like me, you make your living as a sports shooter.

My 400mm f2.8 was worth about 5x was the car I was driving was worth, but one certainly needs long (and fast) glass to compete with all the other photogs on the sidelines.

So here I am at one point, buying these crazy expensive luxury items, as if I was a CEO et al., who could afford that stuff, yet I was eating ramen noodles and otherwise living pretty poor for a number of years.

Wasn't exactly good return on sports gear either. After the wire service cut, I think I was making $600 for a full page photo in magazines like SI, and not like I was getting full page spreads every single week.

We then started to get a lot of the weekend warrior types exchanging images for credentials to games and such. Not knocking people who do this, combining two hobbies is great. Bunch of the guys who used to spend $1000 on A deck tickets for a big game are now on the sidelines, getting to see the game and enjoy their photo hobby and all they have to do is give away their images. (And that is another story all together...)

Anyways though, these guys usually had the best gear you could buy, two Nikon D4s, RRS plates on them etc. Just throwing silly money at buying "the best" of everything, and again, that is fine and good for them. Not buy business to tell people how to spend their money.

Difference between them and myself though is after that NFL game on Sunday, they go back to the law practice or dental practice etc, where they make their 100K+ a year which allowed them to go buy $30k of gear for the fun of it.

On Monday I sit at home, editing all my images, and don't have any "day job" to pay the bills, so what I make from the game is what keeps the roof over my head.

This isn't a complaint as I choose what I wanted to do as a living, and I could of very well been a dentist or anything else. I don't knock anyone with a day job, or any job for that matter, nor do I knock anyone for spending lots of money on a hobby etc. Likewise, just because I might own expensive gear, doesn't mean I'm well off.

Just a bit of perspective, from a full time pro, who has since gone back to school and working to finish my doctorate, so that I can hopefully become gainfully employed and actually become a hobbyist with lots of disposable money to throw at photography

...Show more →

All true but we are mixing two separate issues here. First question is what is a reasonable price for you as an individual to pay for a given camera / equipment. So you could say that from your business or personal needs point of view it doesn't make sense to buy an RX1R II unless it is under $2K. And thats a perfectly fair statement. However a second independent question is that what is a reasonable market value of a product given its features relative to other products in the market. This second question is independent of what it is worth to you. An A7rII + Loxia 35mm f2, which is arguably the closest match for this combo would cost $4500 new. So you are getting a $1200 discount for the fact that this is a fixed lens camera. Not sure what else can be expected. It is beyond me that from a fair market price point of view, how could someone expect it to be less 700 to 800 dollars less than A7rII.

Oct 14, 2015 at 06:46 PM

Arka
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p.8 #13 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

Why so much complaining about the price? Wasn't the original RX-1 in the $3000 neighborhood? This boasts a lens of comparable quality, a much higher resolution sensor, AF that actually works, and a built-in EVF. Sounds like a great camera to me. I had an RX-1that I sold a few months ago because the AF was simply awful. If the RXII's AF is even as good as the Leica Q's, this camera seems quite reasonably priced to me.

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:00 PM

JakAHearts
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p.8 #14 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

I find the RX1 AF usable but really want that wifi for remote use....

Maybe if I sell my 5DIII, all my canon lenses AND my RX1.... maybe.

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:11 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.8 #15 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

As for price, probably not a coincidence that:

RX1/r ($2800) + FDA-EVM1K EVF ($450) = $3250, not so far off the price of the A7rIIr with built-in EVF.

Similarly, I'm sure the price will come down quickly for used and returned options over the next year. I suspect $2200 - $2400 easy.

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:13 PM

genji
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p.8 #16 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

I skipped over Fred's description and feature list to look at the photos of the camera. When I looked at the second (top-down) view, I thought: "Doesn't look as though there's a tilt screen, so of no interest to me." Then I got to the fourth (rear) view and there was a tilt screen! I'll definitely be selling my FE 35/1.4 to partially fund this little beauty.

Edited on Oct 14, 2015 at 07:18 PM · View previous versions

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:16 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.8 #17 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

millsart wrote:
The first RX1 was $2800 I believe, then everyone bought the add on EVF for $449 (and then hoped to not lose it)

Now we are paying $3300, so $500 more, for 42meg sensor, pop-up EVF, tilting LCD, etc.

Its probably the better overall value of the two cameras at retail pricing at least.

There is a kind of logic to your thoughts. If the RX1 was worth $2800 to you, and if nearly $500 to add a viewfinder was worth it then it seems like a deal to get the viewfinder included the camera and have a better sensor. However...

For what I would use such a camera for ��most likely my street photography � I'd spend half that or a third of that and get a Fujifilm X100s in a smaller package. The Sony does have a wonderful sensor and a fine lens, but 16MP (or likely 24MP in whatever succeeds the X100s) is plenty for hand held street photography and the Fujifilm lenses are really excellent.

I'm not at all saying that the Sony isn't an excellent camera � it looks like quite a fine piece of camera technology. But for me that price is just way to high for what it will do, especially given the alternatives. At a lower price point I might feel differently about it.

Dan

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:16 PM

Paul Mo
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p.8 #18 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

LightShow wrote:
$4200 Canadian..... Ouch!
At these prices..

At that price it better be able to withstand drops, rain and AF like a 1DX, and work without a hitch for 10+ years.

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:23 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.8 #19 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

Paul Mo wrote:
...and work without a hitch for 10+ years.

You're in the wrong decade, unfortunately. The Nikon F2 has not been made for a while now.

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:31 PM

charles.K
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p.8 #20 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

Kudos to Sony once again!! Looks to be a great camera. I think I might pass on this iteration, as I am mainly a 50mm shooter, and when I use a 35mm I prefer to have the option of f/1.4 for separation.

The RXrII will sell really well and set the standards again. Now having had the A7II and the A7rII, I don't think I could not live without IBIS. Particularly for a 42MP sensor, I am sure that good camera technique will be really important, and really what will be limiting shutter speeds to ensure sharp shots. This camera is lighter and possibly more prone to movement/shake(even with the leaf shutter), so I will be interested in first adopter's perspectives.

I do a lot of lower light shots, so having shutter speeds around 1/5 to 1/15 sec, even with 135mm FL, negates the need for very high ISO settings.

IMO, I think they made a mistake not including the IBIS on this model. Maybe for a later iteration! I think it will be difficult to get really sharp shots, without using high shutter speeds. The price is about right for what the RXrII is offering but for now not on my radar.

The variable Bypass filter where you can choose three settings, is quite an amazing feature.

BTW, I love the camera

Oct 14, 2015 at 07:39 PM

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