p.9 #1 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
charles.K wrote:
IMO, I think they made a mistake not including the IBIS on this model. Maybe for a later iteration! I think it will be difficult to get really sharp shots, without using high shutter speeds.
I'm sure Sony considered some type of stabilization as an upgrade but perhaps keeping the size and weight down was their main objective. IBIS is awesome on the A7II and A7RII but we now have bulkier bodies as a result.
Adding OSS to the lens could perhaps be a better route, but would also increase its size and maybe compromise its amazing IQ.
p.9 #2 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm sure Sony considered some type of stabilization as an upgrade but perhaps keeping the size and weight down was their main objective. IBIS is awesome on the A7II and A7RII but we now have a bulkier bodies as a result.
Adding OSS to the lens could perhaps be a better route, but would also increase its size and maybe compromise its amazing IQ.
We will have to wait for the RX1R III OSS.
It is quite possible with the rear of the lens element being so close to the sensor, it may not have been possible to OSS/IBIS without some compromise in size and/or cost.
p.9 #3 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
charles.K wrote:
It is quite possible with the rear of the lens element being so close to the sensor, it may not have been possible to OSS/IBIS without some compromise in size and/or cost.
Leica was able to do it with their Q. I'm sure Sony will figure out something for the next model.
p.9 #4 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
gdanmitchell wrote:
There is a kind of logic to your thoughts. If the RX1 was worth $2800 to you, and if nearly $500 to add a viewfinder was worth it then it seems like a deal to get the viewfinder included the camera and have a better sensor. However...
For what I would use such a camera for — most likely my street photography — I'd spend half that or a third of that and get a Fujifilm X100s in a smaller package. The Sony does have a wonderful sensor and a fine lens, but 16MP (or likely 24MP in whatever succeeds the X100s) is plenty for hand held street photography and the Fujifilm lenses are really excellent.
I'm not at all saying that the Sony isn't an excellent camera — it looks like quite a fine piece of camera technology. But for me that price is just way to high for what it will do, especially given the alternatives. At a lower price point I might feel differently about it.
that makes sense, and another person might say the x100s is way overpriced and oversized compared to ricoh gr. it all depends on what you're looking for.
if you value the ultimate in small size and a wider field of view, get the gr. if you really want an optical finder and a shutter dial, get the fuji x100s. if you want ultimate image quality, narrower dof, and the smoothest drawing 35mm around get the rx1.
btw the rx1 is actually smaller than the fuji x100 in most dimensions.
p.9 #5 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Thanks Guy for the kind words -- I've thought about getting a used RX1 but honestly, my A7ii does me just fine now and I'm quite happy with it
I agree that you perspective is forced a bit since you probably eat, breathe, sleep photography, but my point was that no matter if you do or do not (like me), Sony's target market seems to be the $3200 disposable-income-crowd as opposed to the $3200 investment-to-make-me-money-and-also-possibly-use-for-fun crowd. For the latter crowd, I'd agree the A7rII would be a much smarter move (or any other DSLR if that's what floats your boat)
GMPhotography wrote:
I think the argument mostly is okay I'm going to spend the 3200 so which is the better investment. A7rII or this. Obviously the A7rII gives you more options and this just wets your you know what.
Never said I don't want one I do. My perspective is just more forced and not as free as the hobbyist. That's all
But I will say for you serving our country find a way and enjoy it. Have fun
p.9 #6 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Sony rejected both forms of stabilization in the RX1 ('classic' I suppose we can call it). IBIS would likely never have been on the table due to the micron level tolerances used and the effort required to obtain the image quality they sought. IBIS would bring a host of other considerations with it, greater degrees of difficulty...even slight variations in sensor positioning and wear would degrade performance.
As to lens based stabilization:
"We purposely omitted stabilization so we could keep the lens compact and ensure excellent image quality."
and
"We first measure tilt of the light axis for each lens unit, as well as each sensor's surface angle. The position of the lens and sensor are then adjusted accordingly for each camera by highly skilled workers inside a clean room...therefore we manufacture RX1 one-by-one.."
Probably a few here might agree that the leaf shutter, your choice of screw in release button, a modicum of technique and the 32mm uncorrected FL goes a long way to ensuring consistent image quality.
Comparisons with any small format camera are very likely to be confined to those with no or little RX1 usage. It's that good, and so is the lens. Sneaky of them to market not one, but three very different but very good 35mm lenses for the a7 series - before this release. ;-)
p.9 #7 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm sure Sony considered some type of stabilization as an upgrade but perhaps keeping the size and weight down was their main objective. IBIS is awesome on the A7II and A7RII but we now have bulkier bodies as a result.
Adding OSS to the lens could perhaps be a better route, but would also increase its size and maybe compromise its amazing IQ.
We will have to wait for that RX1R III OSS.
The Q did it with OIS. And it can be turned on and off easily. Not much, if any, image degrading in most situations. I'm going to assume the whole package is bigger Q-wise then on the Rx1RII. But probably not from the OIS.
So you are right, it's safe to say sony will have a MKIII version with OIS.
EDIT: Just seen your reply to Charles. EXACTLY. And vr3 will be here in 6 months BTW
p.9 #8 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
No one is talking about the battery life? It was terrible in the original RX1 and I consistently got 200 shots from it. Now the official figure has been reduced from 270 to 220 shots!
I probably would appreciate 35mm more than 28mm (a very in-your-face focal length) but the battery life, no IBIS, worse (?) EVF makes me unexcited compared to the Leica Q I have even though I think that the Sony 35mm lens is much nicer/sharper.
Leica Q also feels a lot faster than 30% over the original RX1 and I'm guessing that the AF speed in RX1R2 has reached the limit because of the lens element design.
p.9 #9 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
charles.K wrote:
The variable Bypass filter where you can choose three settings, is quite an amazing feature.
It's a clever solution to the problem they must have faced in having to produce two low volume models, one with and one without an antialiasing filter.
I see it more as something a buyer will set up once, according to their philosophy, when they first get the camera, rather than something you'd vary from shot to shot. While some moiré sources are obvious, like the clothing in Sony's marketing example, others may not be noticed at the time. (This is before we even consider forms of aliasing other than moiré.)
The old RX1 (non-R) has a weak antialiasing filter. When using mine, I once got moiré in a distant corrugated roof. In real life I hadn't even noticed what the roof was made of. In post, it leapt out, and, worse, Adobe Camera Raw couldn't remove it. If I'd been trying to use an AA strength control in the field I wouldn't have noticed this at all, and would have left it set wrongly. (In practice, I'd leave it set to the strongest setting permanently.)
I will also be curious to see whether the LCD film has any effect on colour performance of the camera.
p.9 #11 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Lee Saxon wrote:
Taylor, I think your argument would make sense if the A7r II that was just friggin' announced had this feature. Holding it for this camera definitely feeds into the impression of Sony as an iteration-obsessed consumer electronics company.
Or it could be that implementing a electronic variable filter was simplified by the sealed eco-system of the RX. Or maybe they saw how many of us lined up to pop off their installed filters on the 7 and 7r and decided we didn't deserve it. Or maybe the Cybershot team was allowed to keep it unique to their camera because they needed a little differentiation in the market.
Whatever the reason, it doesn't make that impression incorrect. Sony is an iteration-obsessed consumer electronics company, but like all iteration-obsessed consumer electronics companies (which would be all of them), as their products mature, the cycles will get longer. Personally, I don't see the downside to that. Their iteration-obsession has put some progressively more capable cameras in our hands.
That said, I'm guessing Sony expected a little market fatigue on the updated RX, which I can't imagine anyone arguing isn't a substantial upgrade over the original, and that contributed to the "high" initial MSRP. They probably know they aren't going to sell as many this time around.
p.9 #12 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
freaklikeme wrote:
Whatever the reason, it doesn't make that impression incorrect. Sony is an iteration-obsessed consumer electronics company, but like all iteration-obsessed consumer electronics companies (which would be all of them), as their products mature, the cycles will get longer. Personally, I don't see the downside to that. Their iteration-obsession has put some progressively more capable cameras in our hands.
There is really no problem with iteration obsession as long as each iteration actually has something to differentiate them or justify such reiteration. For example, A7-->A7II is justified... you get better AF AND IBIS. So it makes sense.
In the case of RX1-II, we have a new sensor along with variable LPF. If they chose to integrate the new A7RII sensor and call it a day, would consumer still buy it? perhaps. But introducing new tech (especially complicated ones) never seen in any other product on the market? That's a totally different animal (marketing-wise) and makes the upgrade that much more exciting.
As of why not put such tech into A7RII... who knows... maybe the tech is not mature enough for interchangeable cameras, or maybe it would add another $200 to the price tag to justify the additional cost of implementing it. But one thing for sure, this is innovation through and through and it would be integrated into future Sony products (just as RX1II is getting A7RII's sensor).
Sony has really spoiled us rotten. They are introducing game-changing technologies on a yearly basis while it used to take CaNikon every 3-4 years (or however their timeframe for new iteration). Appreciate that...
p.9 #14 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
millsart wrote:
Even if it was a $1000 cheaper, and sold like "hot cakes" I doubt I'd ever bump into another person out shooting one.
Its a niche product even at $2300, and even as the RX1 is now that you can pick it up for around $1200 or so. Fixed lens cameras will never be an item popular with the masses regardless of price.
We are 1% of the 1% here. Even if every FM regular did buy one, it would be only a few hundred cameras
I agree. The RX1 was a nice halo product for its time. At this point, with a bunch of A7 models and lenses available, I'm not sure I really see the purpose of this for the vast majority of people. It's not clear to me why a working photographer would need this — wouldn't an A7RII be a far better choice? For an enthusiast with money to burn, sure, but a pro has lots of cheaper options.
Also agree regarding the popup flash. It was novel on the RX100, but irritated me in use. I much prefer the tradeoffs that Panasonic made in the LX100.
p.9 #15 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
itai195 wrote:
I agree. The RX1 was a nice halo product for its time. At this point, with a bunch of A7 models and lenses available, I'm not sure I really see the purpose of this for the vast majority of people. It's not clear to me why a working photographer would need this — wouldn't an A7RII be a far better choice?
Why? Size. The entire camera/lens combo is smaller than the FE35/1.4. I'm puzzled as to why people are still asking this question. Performance in a small package always demands a high price. Same goes for the RX100 series or the LX100 you mentioned.
p.9 #16 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
itai195 wrote:
I agree. The RX1 was a nice halo product for its time. At this point, with a bunch of A7 models and lenses available, I'm not sure I really see the purpose of this for the vast majority of people. It's not clear to me why a working photographer would need this — wouldn't an A7RII be a far better choice? For an enthusiast with money to burn, sure, but a pro has lots of cheaper options.
Also agree regarding the popup flash. It was novel on the RX100, but irritated me in use. I much prefer the tradeoffs that Panasonic made in the LX100....Show more →
Even with the A7RII and lens selections, the RX1 is an amazing street camera. The absolutely silent shutter is something that can't be matched and should be considered a key feature of this product line.
p.9 #17 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
I enjoyed the RX1 series much more than the A7 series. It's silent, and build is amazing. Leaf shutter. Unfortunately the 35mm focal length doesn't suit my style.
p.9 #18 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
I'm responding to the angst over the price. No working photographer is forced to buy this fairly niche camera, there are plenty of other good choices. There are a lot of silent cameras, not full frame admittedly, but everything has tradeoffs.
p.9 #19 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
navyasw02 wrote:
Even with the A7RII and lens selections, the RX1 is an amazing street camera. The absolutely silent shutter is something that can't be matched and should be considered a key feature of this product line.
You do know the A7rII has totally silent shutter mode? The price is a stop of DR (which is usually fine on a sensor with as much DR as this) and possible rolling shutter effects if there is fast motion.
That's usually a tradeoff that matches the Rx1 (and you can have faster shutter speeds). Remember that that stop of DR is only any use at all when you need it, which is rarely. When you don't need it you can't see its benefits.
p.9 #20 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
DavidBM wrote:
You do know the A7rII has totally silent shutter mode? The price is a stop of DR (which is usually fine on a sensor with as much DR as this) and possible rolling shutter effects if there is fast motion.
That's usually a tradeoff that matches the Rx1 (and you can have faster shutter speeds). Remember that that stop of DR is only any use at all when you need it, which is rarely. When you don't need it you can't see its benefits.
Unless I did it wrong, the silent shutter on the A7rII I played with wasnt silent like the RX1. It was quiet, but still audible.
