p.12 #1 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
mawz wrote:
Olympus certainly could do a world-class f1.2 lens. Fuji certainly has with a fraction of the resources or design experience of Olympus (Panasonic also has a mere fraction of Olympus's design experience).
How do you know that Fuji has a fraction of Olympus' resources and design experience? Fujifilm has been making lenses, very high quality lenses, for close to 60 years.
Further, the depth and breadth of Fujifilm's lens designs spans nearly every conceivable camera optic.
p.12 #2 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Gunzorro wrote:
Too funny!
I should have found a video of a chiwawa humping a great danes leg for a more realistic metaphor of the mirrorless efforts to date. It is only a metric based on real data from a popular global photo sharing community, but check out what photographers own and use www.flickr.com/cameras/
Canon 350D, 20D,30D,40D,5D combined average daily users ~ 3,800
Nikon D40,D50,D60,D70, D80 combined average daily users ~ 3,100
These dslr models are a minimum 7+ yrs old and their owners have felt no compulsion to jump on the mirrorless bandwagon, even given the low used price that milc's can be picked up for.
The average daily users for CaNikon FF DSLR models are wet dream figures for milc manufacturers
Despite all the internet hype, shilling and astro-turfing, the combined average daily users of the Sony A7s, A7R, A7 and A72 is an underwhelming ~ 1,400 almost the same number as their abandoned SLT A mount users.
p.12 #3 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Be patient. It will happen soon ... starting with the 300/2.8 lens, and probably followed by an f1.2 short lens, next year. Olympus can make better lenses than Voigtlander (I am talking about m43 lenses) and it will have full AF.
telyt wrote:
I don't spend hard-earned money on promises. Show me the glass.
p.12 #4 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Both Olympus and Canon have been making lenses since the 1930's ... and Fujifilm since the 1940's.
rattymouse wrote:
How do you know that Fuji has a fraction of Olympus' resources and design experience? Fujifilm has been making lenses, very high quality lenses, for close to 60 years.
Further, the depth and breadth of Fujifilm's lens designs spans nearly every conceivable camera optic.
p.12 #8 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Camerapedia had reported that "The company started to produced optical glass during the early 1940s for military use" but it doesn't say when they actually started making camera lenses.
pingflood wrote:
The Fujica Super Six definitely had a Fujinon lens. The predecessor (Fujica Six) probably did as well. These are from the late 40s to mid 50s.
p.12 #9 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Jon Tainton wrote:
I should have found a video of a chiwawa humping a great danes leg for a more realistic metaphor of the mirrorless efforts to date. It is only a metric based on real data from a popular global photo sharing community, but check out what photographers own and use www.flickr.com/cameras/
Canon 350D, 20D,30D,40D,5D combined average daily users ~ 3,800
Nikon D40,D50,D60,D70, D80 combined average daily users ~ 3,100
These dslr models are a minimum 7+ yrs old and their owners have felt no compulsion to jump on the mirrorless bandwagon, even given the low used price that milc's can be picked up for.
The average daily users for CaNikon FF DSLR models are wet dream figures for milc manufacturers
Despite all the internet hype, shilling and astro-turfing, the combined average daily users of the Sony A7s, A7R, A7 and A72 is an underwhelming ~ 1,400 almost the same number as their abandoned SLT A mount users....Show more →
Here is another interesting stat from the same source -
A trend of consistently lower usage, over the last year for the top 5 Canon models used on Flickr. No one is saying that RIGHT now mirrorless is taking over, but the thesis has been that there is a trend: lower DSLR sales, shipping and Flickr usage, vs. flat to increasing numbers for mirrorless.
I have also attached a metaphor that I think is meaningful...
p.12 #12 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
bjornthun wrote:
Then there is the elephant in the room on flick, smartphones. They're ahead of all traditional cameras.
Exactly. This and ONLY this is what is destroying DSLR's. Mirrorless simply is not a part of this equation.
Camera sales are in free fall and it is all because of the smart phone. The paltry, absolutely paltry sales of mirrorless are not helping replace lost customers for all regular cameras.
Mirrorless are on the same ship as DSLR's and that ship is called Titanic.
p.12 #14 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
I think the future will be smartphones, high end P&S, mirrorless and medium format viewcameras.
DSLRs, rangefinders and medium format DSLRs will be dwindling niche products.
The future for Leica is mirrorless, and the Leica T mount is large enough to support a full frame sensor, so such a camera can be used with M and R lenses with an adapter.
p.12 #15 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
rattymouse wrote:
Exactly. This and ONLY this is what is destroying DSLR's. Mirrorless simply is not a part of this equation.
Camera sales are in free fall and it is all because of the smart phone. The paltry, absolutely paltry sales of mirrorless are not helping replace lost customers for all regular cameras.
Mirrorless are on the same ship as DSLR's and that ship is called Titanic.
p.12 #16 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
galenapass wrote:
I wouldn't call ~ 25% of DSLR + mirrorless shipments paltry. But you are right, together they both can't make up for the loss.
You need to look at the total loss for the camera companies to recognize how massive their losses are now. Compact cameras provided huge revenues to the camera makers because of the very high volume of product that they moved. That is being blown away by the smart phone. Mirrorless provides almost nothing there to recover that volume. All these companies need this revenue that they are losing, otherwise they will have to close down factories, fire workers, etc.
p.12 #17 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Agreed. MILC will be around for the pros, semi-pros, serious amateurs and enthusiasts ... and Smartphones for everyone else. The middle ground is doomed.
bjornthun wrote:
Mirrorless will get onto a lifeboat, DSLR not.
p.12 #18 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
rattymouse wrote:
Exactly. This and ONLY this is what is destroying DSLR's. Mirrorless simply is not a part of this equation.
Camera sales are in free fall and it is all because of the smart phone. The paltry, absolutely paltry sales of mirrorless are not helping replace lost customers for all regular cameras.
Mirrorless are on the same ship as DSLR's and that ship is called Titanic.
Ratty, are you saying today Canon would not like a 25% boost in revenue that is going to mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras?
Given its financial statements for the last few years, I would think Canon would welcome the mirrorless revenues.
As far as the camera market is on a spiral down...have you ever compared the sales of cameras in the 90's...film hey day to today's sales. You'd be surprised there are still much more cameras being sold today than any year in the 90's.
p.12 #19 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Smartphones killed the P&S market, not the DSLR market. The only people choosing smartphones over DSLR's never needed a DSLR in the first place and would be choosing a P&S if those weren't terrible values. They were only buying because the idea that DSLR's were for everyone (which is the underlying cause of the boom, just like the AE and AF booms)
The DSLR market is seeing the exact same behaviour as the aftermath of the AE and AF booms, where a large chunk of buyers who never needed one in the first place exit the market. They are exiting to Smartphones, but would have exited to P&S's if those still existed. It was folly to expect that the boom volumes would last.
DSLR/ILC volumes are headed right back to where they should be, consistent with pre-boom volumes with population growth and a modest expansion to the overall market from the boom. Naturally this results in a massive lose in sales numbers as the boom implodes.
p.12 #20 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Fujifilm lists 1962 as the beginning of their lens development.
Yep, they did some manufacturing before that, but not design (Not all Fujinon's are Fuji-designed, even the recent folder lens is a Cosina design branded Fujinon)
Olympus was an established optical company for over 40 years when Fuji designed their first lens, and has designed far more lenses than Fuji has (complete lens systems for 3 ILC systems).
Fuji's an excellent lens designer, but the lens business is a side business of a side business for them. Olympus is a FAR smaller company, but they are 100% an optics company, their entire business is optical and their core expertise is lens design. Fujifilm's imaging division revenue is just under half of Olympus's revenue and that includes all their imaging operations (Film, Instax, Digital Cameras).
So yes, Olympus (an optics company) has far more experience & resources for lens design than Fujifilm. Doesn't make Fujifilm bad at it (kinda the opposite was my point, at the ridiculous assertion that Olympus couldn't design a f1.2 lens like Panasonic did).
