p.2 #3 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
wiseguy010 wrote:
I still don't understand why the existence or non-existence of a mirror in a camera is supposed to be that important apart from a little bit of size and weight. When I look at the latest Nikon 300 mm lens it proves that substantial smaller lenses are also possible with the current F-mount.
I still prefer the bigger and heavier camera's of Nikon and Canon above those tiny cameras because of the stability of these cameras in my hands.
You can add bulk and weight to a small camera with a battery grip; try taking the weight off a CaNikon body.
I was recently looking for a lighter-weight alternative to my Leica DMR and 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt-R. The size and weight of the Nikon 300mm f/4 PF is very enticing but I added the weight of the camera body and the Sony option with the Canon FD 300mm f/4 L came out ahead (AF means nothing to me), and has stabilization for all lenses, and it works with no lens firmware fixes. Also the size and weight reductions the PF technology allows can be applied to mirrorless bodies as well.
Getting rid of the mirror has advantages well beyond the bulk and weight of the camera body. It completely eliminates calibration problems in the mirror box and view screen; no more shimming the view screen, no more AF micro-adjustment BS. It also allows eye-level viewfinder options such as real-time exposure feedback with clipping warnings and magnification for critical manual focus. It allows EFC responsiveness with no mirror shock. It allows combined PD and CD AF for speed along with the accuracy that PD alone can't provide. The short flange distance enabled by getting rid of the mirror allows the use of many many lenses from a huge number of makers. I can pick from many of the best Nikon, Canon, Leica-R and other lenses by using simple adapters, no modifications needed. For myself, the SLR is history.
p.2 #4 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Totally!
I'm curiously waiting for the DSLR sized (and possible heft) modern EVF mirrorless camera that another poster mentioned that isn't the Sony A99. Cool times indeed!
darrellc wrote:
Look at Panasonic GH4 and GM5 for the flexibility of m4/3 mirrorless format. Amplified if paired with the big or small lenses available for the mount.
p.2 #5 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
If the EF-M is it for Canon then they have locked themselves out of the FF market. I'm not sure of the exact size but by the look of it the lens mount for EF is about 20% bigger than EF-M. I can't see how they could get a FF sensor in there. Nikon at least have a clean slate.
p.2 #6 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
curious80 wrote:
Canon I think has an easier path here. As maligned as the EOS-M system is, it already has a small but interesting set of lenses which are good quality and compact. Even though I am currently an A6000 user, sony doesn't have anything which matches the size to performance ratio of my previous EOS-M + 22mm f2 combo. The 11-22 is also a very desirable lens, again in a compact package.
I don't know. I left Canon and switched to Fujifilm because I am underwhelmed by Canon's M offerings. Fuji at least has a very nice range of high quality lenses to choose from.
p.2 #7 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
wiseguy010 wrote:
I still don't understand why the existence or non-existence of a mirror in a camera is supposed to be that important apart from a little bit of size and weight. When I look at the latest Nikon 300 mm lens it proves that substantial smaller lenses are also possible with the current F-mount.
I still prefer the bigger and heavier camera's of Nikon and Canon above those tiny cameras because of the stability of these cameras in my hands.
EVFs. That is the biggest difference and the reason I gave up on DSLRs a long time ago.
p.2 #8 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
mcbroomf wrote:
If the EF-M is it for Canon then they have locked themselves out of the FF market. I'm not sure of the exact size but by the look of it the lens mount for EF is about 20% bigger than EF-M. I can't see how they could get a FF sensor in there. Nikon at least have a clean slate.
Mike
The inner diameter is about 47mm, which should fit a full frame sensor (43mm diagonal). Time will tell.
p.2 #9 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
Alpha_Geist wrote:
Or small bodies with DSLR sized lenses...like any A7 series camera with the 90 f/2.8 macro FE lens attached to it.
Mirrorless can move either way (big body or small body and same with lens size/weight). I don't think DSLRs have that same "flexibility", if it were.
Unless you look at the Canon SL1, but that's an odd animal.
A case in point. You can have a "pro" body like the GH4 or a super-compact body the GM5 ... and anything in-between. All mirrorless ILC's, and all with a micro 43 sensor.
p.2 #10 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
dasrocket wrote:
EVFs. That is the biggest difference and the reason I gave up on DSLRs a long time ago.
Obviously, it suits your needs well, that's fine. But, OVF will never go away completely. There will be always market for it. It is as fast as the light is, so EVF will never reach there, period. It's matter of physics, not Sony, Nikon, Canon, Samsung, or any other manufacturer. We will be always dealing with that comprise, and there are still a lot of people out there, who would appreciate speed of light more than all the information on that little screen.
p.2 #11 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
I guess it's to be expected there would be a lower percentage of DSLR love here on the Alt forum than the Canon/Nikon forums.
It's funny -- the MILC issue gets hashed out from the other perspective on those other forums. As in, why the MILCs are not ready for prime time.
Canon and Nikon have so much invested in really great long-flange-distance lenses, I don't know how they could do a u-turn at this time, or keep their prices down in the meantime as they butcher existing markets during the transition. Maybe Sony will have the last laugh in the rise of Photography's democratic mediocrity.
p.2 #12 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
True, but I was thinking along the lines of a FF or APS-C type sensor. I should have stated that in my post. >_<
bobbytan wrote:
A case in point. You can have a "pro" body like the GH4 or a super-compact body the GM5 ... and anything in-between. All mirrorless ILC's, and all with a micro 43 sensor.
p.2 #14 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
galenapass wrote:
For me it is not a matter of love or dislike for DSLRs, but a matter of how the numbers show that there is an emerging trend.
Mediocrity...better look at those Canon sensors again before you go spouting off.
The emerging trend is that mirrorless sales are down. Despite all the hoopla, less cameras are being sold year on year. Mirrorless can't stop the smart phone juggernaut that is devastating the traditional camera industry. Mirrorless is just as hapless as SLR's in this case.
p.2 #15 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
There is a difference between sales and units shipped. The data I quoted were sales. What you are showing is shipped. Moreover, because shipped and sales vary with the time of year, year over year comparisons are more accepted than interpreting a trend off the type of graph you show.
p.2 #16 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
bobbytan wrote:
A case in point. You can have a "pro" body like the GH4 or a super-compact body the GM5 ... and anything in-between. All mirrorless ILC's, and all with a micro 43 sensor.
Comparing visible sensor sizes, the GX8 and GM5 look to be about the right relative size. The GH4 should be a lot larger. Just sayin.
p.2 #17 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
galenapass wrote:
There is a difference between sales and units shipped. The data I quoted were sales. What you are showing is shipped. Moreover, because shipped and sales vary with the time of year, year over year comparisons are more accepted than interpreting a trend off the type of graph you show.
You can't sell what you havent shipped so clearly sales are in decline or soon will be. As Thom Hogan has extensively written about, the mirrorless companies stuff the channels pretty hard to give the appearance of moving a lot of units.
CIPA information has shown repeatedly that mirrorless growth is minimal at best, but in most cases is in clear decline.
p.2 #18 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
cvrle59 wrote:
... OVF will never go away completely. There will be always market for it.
I wouldn't wish the OVF to go away. Choice is always a good thing.
It is as fast as the light is, so EVF will never reach there, period. It's matter of physics, not Sony, Nikon, Canon, Samsung, or any other manufacturer.
The total system responsiveness is what matters to me with the a7II I'm using now. The EVF isn't as responsive as an OVF, but the difference is tiny. The shutter lag when using EFC may well be shorter than an SLR, I don't know and I'm not interested in testing. I'd rather take pictures. The net lag with the a7II's EVF and EFC shutter works well enough for me.
p.2 #19 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
telyt wrote:
I wouldn't wish the OVF to go away. Choice is always a good thing.
The total system responsiveness is what I'm seeing with the a7II I'm using now. The EVF isn't as responsive as an OVF, but the difference is tiny. The shutter lag when using EFC may well be shorter, I don't know and I'm not interested in testing. I'd rather take pictures. The net lag with the a7II's EVF and EFC shutter works well enough for me.
p.2 #20 · CaNikon will have to enter the mirrorless market.....
U.C. wrote:
The inner diameter is about 47mm, which should fit a full frame sensor (43mm diagonal). Time will tell.
Thanks. Also I realized that as the flange is 18mm away from the sensor vs 44 for the EF the opening can be smaller to get the same coverage (from the edge for fast lenses for example).
