The new Batis 85/1.8 only weighs a little more than the ZM 85/2. The new design is more advanced it seems with 11/8 elements/groups. The filter thread has gone from 58mm to 67mm.
p.5 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
edwardkaraa wrote:
For the first time ever, the weakness is not in the lenses, since the line up is impressive, but the bodies suck imho.
Agreed. I gotta run now and "show off my wealth" with my M240 displayed proudly around my neck... I wore it all day at work today and felt pretty good about myself. Of course, I am also a dentist which made things tricky.
p.5 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
A few comments, as I am coming late to this debate.
- While the Touits were obviously not a roaring success, commercially, the Touit 12 I own is a very, very good lens indeed, beating the Sony zoom handsomely. If the Batis are of the same caliber, they should do very well IMHO.
- I am puzzled by the coexistence of Batis and Loxia. Do CZ really think there is room for 2 separate MF lines of CZ glass, one assumes with AF and the other one MF? On top of the Zony offerings, and Sony G as well? Sounds rather a lot to me, even before Sigma join the fun...
- My take on the multiple mentions of the Batis being "professional" (and water-resistant as well) is that Sony will soon introduce a water-resistant body. Why on earth otherwise build that into a lens line, if the more vulnerable camera bodies can't hack it?
p.5 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
mogul wrote:
I wonder about the quality of the lens motor...Sony in the 35 f1.4 has a new motor with extremely fast, silent focusing, past Zeiss AF motors have been less than satisfying.
+1. The Touits were overpriced initially and didn't sell well until they went on fire sale. Also the focusing motor made video shooting with them unuseable. Hopefully these will have better, quieter ones.
p.5 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I have all three of the Touits and I'm very pleased with them. The 12/2.8 is very good, and so is the 50/2.8 macro. The 50/2.8 has exceptional control of LoCa, much better than the ZF 100/2 macro. The 32/1.8 has poor correction of coma, but very good correction of LoCa.
Hopefully the Touits have provided Zeiss with the experience they need anout AF lenses that they make on their own.
p.5 #8 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Checked into this further, and e-mounts still use the ADI flash protocol which requires the D encoding. Looks like that is how these new lenses are doing distance encoding. Its a pretty accurate system.
TheEmrys wrote:
You sure it doesn't use D encoding? I get a distance number in feet for my D lenses when I MF.
p.5 #9 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
arduluth wrote:
Looks like the first, or maybe a combination of the two?
Thanks for the photo. It was a busy morning but now I'm catching up with the important stuff. :-)
Looks to me like the current focus distance is in the middle, with depth of field boundaries on either side. That won't be quite as intuitive to use as an engraved focus scale but could be far more useful. As Matt Grum said, the scale isn't very useful on autofocus lenses anyhow, so this is more for ZE/ZF shooters who are migrating to Sony. Heck, if it always shows two significant digits (and is accurate), I could use a mapping app on my phone to find subject distance for my tripod & landscape shots, then not have to worry about autofocus picking the wrong subject or going back-and-forth in magnified view to focus on what I want. Accurate scale focus when I want it; smooth manual focus when I want it; autofocus when I want it. That sounds fantastic. We'll see if it delivers.
Next question: how does the user change settings? Going with meters-only seems a bit too bold, so it needs to have some settings. (They'd earn points with me, though, if they forced U.S. photographers to use meters.) The lens could be set to feet/meters by sales region, but that seems like it'd cost too much from an inventory/pipeline point of view. There could be a switch on the mount, like the Loxia has for de-clicking. Or it could read the interface settings from the camera...which might mean it doesn't fully work with older cameras. Hopefully, though, the Batis will be configurable on a computer, perhaps with a Sigma-like dock. (As an aside: wifi in both the camera and the lens? Welcome to the internet of things?) Change feet/meters as desired, configure backlight intensity, perhaps change display style and focus direction, too. That'd be nice.
p.5 #10 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I'm rather interested in these lenses personally, as a recent convert to the Alpha system I've been trying to tailor my lens lineup to suit my needs. Currently I'm fairly happy with the 16-35mm FE lens, but the 25 f/2 is rather tempting for a number of reasons, and the 85 would be a great details lens.
p.5 #11 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The 85mm is going to be more popular, SAR's poll has it much preferred to the 25mm. It has been easier to cover WA in FE/legacy than to get the short tele area right.
Loxia *may* have been a tide over exercise, to see how strong the appeal was in the market for 'ZM plus' lenses, for incoming M users, in the same way the ZM 35/1.4 had a nod and a wink at the a7 series. The Loxias are also heavier/larger and/or have larger filter threads than the source ZM designs. It's easy to understand the greater urgency to these Batis lenses than for more Loxias at present. Zeiss want a larger piece of the mainstream, now. I like how each company is not treading the others' toes in lens releases.
Sony and CZ are designing for high Mp these days, and better IQ will take priority over minimizing filter size or crimping internal element layout as we saw in some film era lenses.
The Touits are very fine lenses, but came at the wrong time in the development cycle, and high end APS-C was beaten up by $1000 FF cameras. The Touits do appear to have been the testing ground for a range of designs and features and perhaps manufacturing methods for the new series. Superior design and quality at a fair price is the aim in Batis, we'll see how it goes. They appear confident..
Sony have an announcement today so we may find out exactly which new body you can mount the lenses on come July.
p.5 #12 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I'm disappointed to see these ahead of an expansion of the Loxia line, but I suppose it makes sense. They'll likely sell more. I just hope it's not instead of an expansion of the Loxia line.
I do not like their rubberized grips. They could've wrapped the lenses in double sided tape and achieved the same result.
p.5 #14 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
edwardkaraa wrote:
Admittedly the FE system is becoming more attractive but Sony is still missing the point in their body design. This could change however. It only suffices for them to release just one body with the right ergonomics and they will score big time. For the first time ever, the weakness is not in the lenses, since the line up is impressive, but the bodies suck imho.
PS. Before someone asks me what would be a good body design, I would say something along the lines of the Fuji xt1 or x pro1 or even the nex7.
That's interesting - I would have just said the opposite - the camera bodies are fine for me ergonomically (give and take that the A7 II was getting bigger but still okay), but the lenses I find simply not appealing. Not talking about optical image quality here - I believe the Sony FE lenses are excellent there - more talking about the concept regarding size (also the built style with only plastic fantastic does not intrigue me too much either). Why would you like a smaller mirrorless FF body and still fully rely on DSLR size lenses? I don't get this. I think here Sony is missing the point. Zeiss is better here, they at least got the Loxia lenses out. And the argument that you need to have bigger lenses because of the AF system simply doesn't work - look at the Contax G line.
p.5 #15 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
If they really do have in lens stabilization it would seem a bit at odds with Sony's likely plan of having a IBIS A7r etc coming out soon.
Granted the two can work together, but at least for me, one of the nice things about IBIS is that I can make all my lenses stabilized, and not worry if a lens has an IS option, added cost etc.
I think either put it in the body, and have no stabilized glass, ala Olympus, or leave it out of the body and put it into lenses, ala Canikon.
Buying stabilized lenses for my recently puchased mkII (because I wanted IBIS) kind of feels redundant and frustrating
p.5 #16 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
retrofocus wrote:
That's interesting - I would have just said the opposite - the camera bodies are fine for me ergonomically (give and take that the A7 II was getting bigger but still okay), but the lenses I find simply not appealing. Not talking about optical image quality here - I believe the Sony FE lenses are excellent there - more talking about the concept regarding size (also the built style with only plastic fantastic does not intrigue me too much either). Why would you like a smaller mirrorless FF body and still fully rely on DSLR size lenses? I don't get this. I think here Sony is missing the point. Zeiss is better here, they at least got the Loxia lenses out. And the argument that you need to have bigger lenses because of the AF system simply doesn't work - look at the Contax G line. ...Show more →
I think you're right; the issue though, is that Sony actually has to make money.
Sony is fully capable of making smaller lenses, but that would mean Leica-like glass and either higher prices or lower margins (and likely both).
One might expect that if the E-mount goes anywhere near Sony is (eventually) aiming, they will work to produce more compact optics that better befit their 'AF Leica' premise of a mirrorless full-frame system.
p.5 #17 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
vitix68 wrote:
and now Zeiss Batis! with both two series "Zeiss" with AF, last one could/should be made by Cosina.
molson wrote:
They are probably being made by Fuji, just like the Zeiss Touits...
Do you know which is making the Loxia? They look more like the Cosina-made ZF than the Fuji-made (never heard that anywhere else, but I've no reason to doubt you) Touits. But then again the Otus look more like the Touits than the ZF and aren't they made by Cosina?
p.5 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
millsart wrote:
If they really do have in lens stabilization it would seem a bit at odds with Sony's likely plan of having a IBIS A7r etc coming out soon.
Granted the two can work together, but at least for me, one of the nice things about IBIS is that I can make all my lenses stabilized, and not worry if a lens has an IS option, added cost etc.
I think either put it in the body, and have no stabilized glass, ala Olympus, or leave it out of the body and put it into lenses, ala Canikon.
Buying stabilized lenses for my recently puchased mkII (because I wanted IBIS) kind of feels redundant and frustrating ...Show more →
I'd bet that Zeiss is also counting on E-mount sales; stabilization makes more sense on an 85mm lens that works out to be a ~125mm FOV on an a6000. It also makes a whole lot of sense for people who are happy with their non-IBIS A7 cameras, which is still most of them.
(it will also make sense if/when Zeiss decides to port these lenses to other mounts; Fuji is one contender, Canon is another)
p.5 #19 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
millsart wrote:
If they really do have in lens stabilization it would seem a bit at odds with Sony's likely plan of having a IBIS A7r etc coming out soon.
Granted the two can work together, but at least for me, one of the nice things about IBIS is that I can make all my lenses stabilized, and not worry if a lens has an IS option, added cost etc.
I think either put it in the body, and have no stabilized glass, ala Olympus, or leave it out of the body and put it into lenses, ala Canikon.
Buying stabilized lenses for my recently puchased mkII (because I wanted IBIS) kind of feels redundant and frustrating ...Show more →
The IBIS in the A 7 series is designed to work with stabilised lenses; so that the work of stabilising in the five axes gets divided between sensor and lens, allegedly giving better results than either IBIS alone or lens alone.
p.5 #20 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
johnctharp wrote:
I think you're right; the issue though, is that Sony actually has to make money.
Sony is fully capable of making smaller lenses, but that would mean Leica-like glass and either higher prices or lower margins (and likely both).
One might expect that if the E-mount goes anywhere near Sony is (eventually) aiming, they will work to produce more compact optics that better befit their 'AF Leica' premise of a mirrorless full-frame system.
Or maybe Sigma will beat them to it .
Again - look at Contax G glass - former competitor to Leica, small rangefinder lens construction with AF. Why not using this as a template to develop something for the E-mount? It does not at all need to have a Leica price tag either. I could imagine that decent prime/zoom lenses would be even more successful - or do you think professionals like bigger glass to show off (but why would they use a Sony A7 series camera then in the first place?!).
I believe the reason for the bigger glass is a simple one - unexpected success of the E-mount and the A7 FF series. Manufacturing lines are built to accommodate DSLR lenses, well established DSLR lens designs are out there, so simply those blueprints were used and slightly modified for the E-mount.
In line with your point above, I also think that after a while smaller AF-based glass shows up for the E-mount.
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