p.12 #1 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
For some of the Zeiss lens the weight may be OK. But there is still a question of size and volume, the lack or an aperture ring and MF by wire that many of us do not like as well.
Rich
Hi Rich,
I get it. Like I said, I prefer smaller lenses too. I was just puzzled by your comment about the issue of carrying the weight as we get older in regards to these two new lenses.
p.12 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Jeff Kott wrote:
Hi Rich,
I get it. Like I said, I prefer smaller lenses too. I was just puzzled by your comment about the issue of carrying the weight as we get older in regards to these two new lenses.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I just updated my post. You may want to take a look about the weight of the 85mm lens.
p.12 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
A 100/2 would be nice. My Miolta is quite lovely, typical classic Minolta colors. But an 85mm sounds like just what Sony would do, because everyone uses the same playbook for popular lenses. That's why we have 3 35's and 2 50's. Popular focal lengths sell. Disappointingly, I suspect Sony does an 85/1.4, and it will be a Planar, maybe a Sonnar. 100mm non-macros just don't sell, as neither the Canon nor Minolta were big sellers, and nowhere close to an 85/1.4 in terms of sales numbers. Even fast 135's don't typically sell as 85's. And 135's from f/2.5-2.8 are just somewhat boring. I would love a good non-g/zeiss 135/2.8, similar in size to the Minolta. Great, fast af, just too much CA.
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think an interesting issues now is what is the "large aperture prime" that is on Sony's roadmap for 2015. I had wrongly assumed that it would be an 85 f/1.8, but that seems quite unlikely now. Will it be a 100 f/2, a 135 f/2 or f/1.8, a faster 25, 50, or 85? It actually is hard to guess. I suppose a 135 is mostly likely, but my wish would be a plain Sony 100 f/2 based on the Minolta AF 100 f/2 that comes in at a moderate price. The Zeiss Batis 85 f/1.8 looks fantastic and I would still likely get it, but a beautiful rendering, smaller and cheaper 100 f/2 would be awfully tempting....Show more →
p.12 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think an interesting issues now is what is the "large aperture prime" that is on Sony's roadmap for 2015. I had wrongly assumed that it would be an 85 f/1.8, but that seems quite unlikely now. Will it be a 100 f/2, a 135 f/2 or f/1.8, a faster 25, 50, or 85? It actually is hard to guess. I suppose a 135 is mostly likely, but my wish would be a plain Sony 100 f/2 based on the Minolta AF 100 f/2 that comes in at a moderate price. The Zeiss Batis 85 f/1.8 looks fantastic and I would still likely get it, but a beautiful rendering, smaller and cheaper 100 f/2 would be awfully tempting....Show more →
Despite this leaked road map was considered to be fake, it is actually quite close to what Sony and Zeiss are releasing now (spot-on with the OSS on the 85/1.8). Certainly, it missed the mark here and there in term of exact focal length or the omission of the 28/2. But I think we would see a few of these future lenses materialized. The next 3 Zeiss lenses seem to be quite intriguing.
p.12 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
What's the issue with focus-by-wire? I find that it's capable of a better (longer) focus throw than most other lenses. My Touit 32/1.8 gives 3/4 turn = 270 degrees. The Sony/Zeiss FE/E lenses give a long or short throw depending on how fast you turn the focus ring. So for precise MF I find focus-by-wire to be superb.
p.12 #6 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
bjornthun wrote:
What's the issue with focus-by-wire? I find that it's capable of a better (longer) focus throw than most other lenses. My Touit 32/1.8 gives 3/4 turn = 270 degrees. The Sony/Zeiss FE/E lenses give a long or short throw depending on how fast you turn the focus ring. So for precise MF I find focus-by-wire to be superb.
Focus by wire normally does not have a minimum and an infinity stop and the focus does not have the smooth damping feel of really good MF lenses including Leica M and Leica R. Additionally, AF lenses frequently (usually?) lack aperture rings that enable the user to see the set aperture as well as use DOF markings on the lens that can be seen when the lens and camera are away from the eye.
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p.12 #7 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
hiepphotog wrote:
Despite this leaked road map was considered to be fake, it is actually quite close to what Sony and Zeiss are releasing now (spot-on with the OSS on the 85/1.8). Certainly, it missed the mark here and there in term of exact focal length or the omission of the 28/2. But I think we would see a few of these future lenses materialized. The next 3 Zeiss lenses seem to be quite intriguing.
Yeah, they missed the 28 f/2 and the timing is all off (and they thought the macro would be a 100 instead of a 90), but they made some good guesses. I still think a 50 f/1.2 is unlikely, but a 135 f/2 seems quite likely and I would not be surprised at all to see Zeiss make a 21mm f/2.8 Batis. They won't be announced this year, but I could see almost all of that fake roadmap (the 50 f/1.2 being the exception and I don't expect the 35 f/2 to have OSS or by a G) coming to fruition by the end of next year.
p.12 #8 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
Focus by wire normally does not have a minimum and an infinity stop and the focus does not have the smooth damping feel of really good MF lenses including Leica M and Leica R. Additionally, AF lenses frequently (usually?) lack aperture rings that enable the user to see the set aperture as well as use DOF markings on the lens that can be seen when the lens and camera are away from the eye.
Rich
The damping on the Touit series is actually very, very good, so I think the Batis will be very good in that respect. The Batis even solve the focus and DoF scale issue. Due to presbyopia, I actually prefer viewing all the info in the viewfinder. Some lenses have too small print on them while other are OK. Not having a hard stop doesn't really bother me, since that allows the focus to be accellerated, so you can also go from infinty to minimum focus distance with a quarter turn or in two full turns = 720 degrees. Currently only the Sony/Zeiss lenses have this feature of variable sensitivity.
Since the Touits don't have the newest AF motor, there is tactile feedback from the motor as long as you focus. Still I hope the Batis series will feature a newer and silent AF motor.
When it comes to M and R lenses, some have a good focus throw and some are only less good. The Summarit 75/2.5 is dreadful with only a quarter turn from infinty to the minimum focusing distance. On the other hand, the Summicron 90 pre-Asph gives you a full half turn from infinty to the minimum focus distance.
The Loxia lenses do however strike a nice balance with a 180 degrees turn on the two current lenses.
p.12 #9 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
bjornthun wrote:
The damping on the Touit series is actually very, very good, so I think the Batis will be very good in that respect. The Batis even solve the focus and DoF scale issue. Due to presbyopia, I actually prefer viewing all the info in the viewfinder. Some lenses have too small print on them while other are OK. Not having a hard stop doesn't really bother me, since that allows the focus to be accellerated, so you can also go from infinty to minimum focus distance with a quarter turn or in two full turns = 720 degrees. Currently only the Sony/Zeiss lenses have this feature of variable sensitivity.
Since the Touits don't have the newest AF motor, there is tactile feedback from the motor as long as you focus. Still I hope the Batis series will feature a newer and silent AF motor.
When it comes to M and R lenses, some have a good ficusvthrow and some are only less good. The Summarit 75/2.5 is dreadful with only a quarter turn from infinty to the minimum focusing distance. On the other hand, the Symmicron 90 pre-Asph gives you a full half turn from infinty to the minimum focus distance.
The Loxia lenses do however strike a nice balance with a 180 degrees turn on the two current lenses. ...Show more →
The aperture ring, minimum focus, infinity focus, and DOF scales are extremely useful when the camera is tripod mounted (which is the way that I shoot probably 95+ %) of the time. But, I come from using LF cameras tripod mounted and I can not hand hold a camera quite as steady as I could before I broke both wrists in a bicycle and car accident 22 years ago.
I find the focus throw on my Leica M 90mm f2.5 Summarit enables rapid focus, but that is me.
p.12 #10 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
The aperture ring, minimum focus, infinity focus, and DOF scales are extremely useful when the camera is tripod mounted (which is the way that I shoot probably 95+ %) of the time. But, I come from using LF cameras tripod mounted and I can not hand hold a camera quite as steady as I could before I broke both wrists in a bicycle and car accident 22 years ago.
I find the focus throw on my Leica M 90mm f2.5 Summarit enables rapid focus, but that is me.
Rich
When my camera is tripod mounted with the viewfinder at eye level, the scales on the lenses are useless for me. I need them to be 50cm away to read them, and that becomes cumbersome with a tripod. I use a tripod tall enough that I can stand up fully, so as to avoid back and neck pain.
Personally, I've only used SLRs and then DSLRs. I've sold the bulky DSLRs and now use Sony and Olympus mirrorless.
p.12 #11 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
bjornthun wrote:
When my camera is tripod mounted with the viewfinder at eye level, the scales on the lenses are useless for me. I need them to be 50cm away to read them, and that becomes cumbersome with a tripod. I use a tripod tall enough that I can stand up fully, so as to avoid back and neck pain.
Personally, I've only used SLRs and then DSLRs. I've sold the bulky DSLRs and now use Sony and Olympus mirrorless.
I bracket my images but will frequently walk around to the side and the front of the camera if I am not trying to shoot changing lighting conditions. So, I usually have and am able to check the settings on the lens that way. Also, particularly once focused if I decide to change the aperture, I can count the click stops for aperture but usually for most instances for landscape DOF I am shooting at as little as f5.6, but usually at f8 or f11.
I still have my LF, medium format film, and Leica R camera bodies as well as my main camera which is my A7r (which I may modify the sensor stack) with my Fujifilm X-E1 as my backup as well as my Lumix G1 which sees no usage. The Fuji hasn't seen usage in over a year but it is there if needed.
p.12 #12 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I'm surprised and excited by these lenses (I'd been considering the upcoming 90/2.8 Macro as a portrait lens), but a bit cautious in my enthusiasm.
I had the Touit 32/1.8 and found the focusing, both auto and manual, to be a bit of a disappointment. Granted, I was using an NEX-7 and so couldn't turn off the 'pre-AF,' causing the lens to be focusing noisily and slowly all of the time. Manual focus stuttered a bit as well though, which took a bit of the joy out of the experience.
Still, I preferred the look of the images over those from Sony's E 35/1.8 and it took me a while to turn around and sell it (at a massive loss, of course!).
The size looks acceptable, I like the build and style, and the prices are more reasonable than I would've expected. I'll just wait to see some images and test the AF before I consider buying, but wow, what a system this is turning out to be.
p.12 #13 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
bjornthun wrote:
What's the issue with focus-by-wire? I find that it's capable of a better (longer) focus throw than most other lenses. My Touit 32/1.8 gives 3/4 turn = 270 degrees. The Sony/Zeiss FE/E lenses give a long or short throw depending on how fast you turn the focus ring. So for precise MF I find focus-by-wire to be superb.
I agree FBW has come a long way in a short time, but its still not as pleasurable (or quiet) as a dedicated MF lens and, as Rich noted, AF lenses in general skimp out on or skip entirely some of the things people who use MF lenses tend to rely on. Aside from the logical argument that greater automation increases the possible points of failure, it's a preference, no different than a preference in sensor size or camera bag.
p.12 #14 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
freaklikeme wrote:
I agree FBW has come a long way in a short time, but its still not as pleasurable (or quiet) as a dedicated MF lens and, as Rich noted, AF lenses in general skimp out on or skip entirely some of the things people who use MF lenses tend to rely on. Aside from the logical argument that greater automation increases the possible points of failure, it's a preference, no different than a preference in sensor size or camera bag.
FBW is quiet on the Sony/Zeiss FE lenses but not with the Touits. They must have different generation AF motors, I guess. With these lenses I find the MF experience very good, and better than Nikon Ai-S, and almost on par with Nikon Ai and many Leica R. If an MF lens is well fampened, I find it should have a long focusing throw. Fbw on Sony/Zeiss ticks these two important boxes: they are well dampened and provide a long focus throw, but I also like good MF lenses. None of them are excluded for me.
p.12 #15 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Farfisa: I use the Touit 32/1.8 on the Sony a6000 and have had the firmware updated to version 02 to support phase detect AF. I have also turned off pre-focusing. This way the Touits work fine for me.
Rich: i also count aperture clicks and try to make the best out of MF lenses. Though fbw and the new tech are all great, there are a few MF lenses I still keep and use despite any hurdle. They are that good.
p.12 #16 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Hmm. I wonder if we'll get a Sony-Zeiss 85 1.2?
Anyone remember that interview with the designer of the 55 1.8 who said that his dream would be to design an 85 1.2? Now there's the Batis 85 1.8, an 85 1.4 is a bit close (though Nikon does 1.8 and 1.4, but they also distinguish between them in how premium they are)
Guess it'd be nice, but I doubt I am up for the size and cost. I'll probably get the 35 1.4 soon, but strangely you need wides to be super fast to get bokeh. For an 85 1.8 is actually pretty smooth if it's good wide open. But it'd be a great 'halo' lens for the system, the way the Canon 85 1.2 is for them...
p.12 #17 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think it may come down to whether the lenses are made to have the resolution that will be required for a 50mp FF camera and whether they will develop the lenses to have great across the frame sharpness. If the lenses are designed primarily for video those issues won't be a concern, but if they are designed for still they probably will be. IMO, the Loxia 50 does stand up well for stills use, but the 35 while quite good for many types of stills applications does not have the across the frame sharpness that Zeiss probably would have delivered if it was designed primarily for stills. Don't get me wrong the Loxia 35 is still a very good lens, it just could be quite a bit better in the edges and corners at infinity, but that won't really be needed for video. I think if it was designed for stills it would be just that much better, and that is what some of us who want MF lenses designed for stills worry we might be missing in future loxia lenses....Show more →
If the Loxia 35mm does not have what it takes for 50 Mpixels I would worry about everything with a wider focal length. How can you expect the Batis 25mm f/2 to be better given that it is the same price and has AF. In the ZM line the ZM 2,8/25 cost 20% more than the 2,0/35. So for the Batis 25mm f/2 to better either a lot was left on the table with Loxia or it really won't be any better or possibly worse.
p.12 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
swldstn wrote:
If the Loxia 35mm does not have what it takes for 50 Mpixels I would worry about everything with a wider focal length. How can you expect the Batis 25mm f/2 to be better given that it is the same price and has AF. In the ZM line the ZM 2,8/25 cost 20% more than the 2,0/35. So for the Batis 25mm f/2 to better either a lot was left on the table with Loxia or it really won't be any better or possibly worse.
The loxia 35 is a bad case in point since it is merely an adapted ZM35/2, and the FE 35/2.8 does better for less. Frankly, I find the new 28/2 more interesting than the Loxia 35.
Anyway, if the new 25/2 is a fresh design tuned to the thick sensor stack it should easily out perform the Loxia 35.
p.12 #19 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Neither AF nor price has a direect influence on lens performance. Inirect for price, no relation for af, particularly for cdaf. If the Loxia resolves well enough for 36mp, it should be fine for 50mp. The jump to 50 just isn't very big. Not quite catching up with the pixel density of the a77II,I,65,everything else Sony does.
swldstn wrote:
If the Loxia 35mm does not have what it takes for 50 Mpixels I would worry about everything with a wider focal length. How can you expect the Batis 25mm f/2 to be better given that it is the same price and has AF. In the ZM line the ZM 2,8/25 cost 20% more than the 2,0/35. So for the Batis 25mm f/2 to better either a lot was left on the table with Loxia or it really won't be any better or possibly worse.
p.12 #20 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
swldstn wrote:
If the Loxia 35mm does not have what it takes for 50 Mpixels I would worry about everything with a wider focal length. How can you expect the Batis 25mm f/2 to be better given that it is the same price and has AF. In the ZM line the ZM 2,8/25 cost 20% more than the 2,0/35. So for the Batis 25mm f/2 to better either a lot was left on the table with Loxia or it really won't be any better or possibly worse.
Having the Loxia 35/50 and FE 35/1.4, I am thrilled with the direction of Sony/Zeiss. As I mentioned in another post that in the last few days, I have sold both my 35 Lux FLE and 50 Lux Asph.
The Loxia 50/2 replaces my 50 Lux Asph on the A7 bodies, and my FE 35/1.4 is superb on all my A7 bodies compared with my 35 Lux FLE. Of course if I still had both my M240 bodies, the 50 Lux/35 Lux FLE would still be glued on.
The Loxia 35/2 is a great lens too. It is just not the resolution but the way both the Loxia's render. I am even noticing more with the latest Lr6. Of course the FE 35/2.8 is very good, but I do not like the rendering as much. BTW the FE 35/2.8 is glued to my wife's A7s as she loves this combo.
I have already pre ordered in Australia through my contacts for both the Batis 25 and 85, and hopefully will be one of first few that will receive both these lenses when they become available
From what I am seeing with the Loxia 35/50 and the FE 35/1.4, I don't feel there will be any issues with the higher MP's cam. In fact, I would believe that Zeiss/Sony have already accommodated the new A7/A9's in their design.
Another point to raise is the focus by wire. The implementation of focus by wire with the FE 55/1.8 leaves me wanting for my Leica M lenses. But with the FE 35/1.4, I am finding the focus by wire excellent now. Obviously a lot of thought and design has been incorporated. The ability to flick between AF/MF with a well damped movement, allows the lens/camera combo to get out of your way in taking shots.
