This topic is in the 2015 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2015A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
p.10 #1A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Thank you,
Rich, It's dark and rainy by now, but I do recall you had interest in seeing Leica Elmarit-R 28 on modded A7R. Will take few test shots within a day or two.
Charles, indeed, having Lux 50 asph work fine (much better) stopped down at infinity is just a big plus.
I will take more test shots once weather clears out in Vancouver.
One more for now - Zeiss ZM 2/35; shots were taken nearly one year apart; however, Biogon's performance across the frame is waaay better than on stock A7R.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC1385_640.jpg
Right side tracks; 100% crop
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/A7RMOD-ZM-35-8.jpg
Rich, It's dark and rainy by now, but I do recall you had interest in seeing Leica Elmarit-R 28 on modded A7R. Will take few test shots within a day or two.
Charles, indeed, having Lux 50 asph work fine (much better) stopped down at infinity is just a big plus.
I will take more test shots once weather clears out in Vancouver.
One more for now - Zeiss ZM 2/35; shots were taken nearly one year apart; however, Biogon's performance across the frame is waaay better than on stock A7R.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC1385_640.jpg
Right side tracks; 100% crop
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/A7RMOD-ZM-35-8.jpg
Feb 02, 2015 at 07:36 PM
p.10 #2A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Wow, Jack, that looks really great with the 50 Lux ASPH! In the ZM35/2 comparison crops, I'd be more interested in seeing the right edge where the tree and boats are, since I guess that's more where the plane of focus is.
Now if the a9 resolves a lot of my a7 UI/UX dislikes, and if Kolari will be able to mod it, it could be very, very tempting!
Now if the a9 resolves a lot of my a7 UI/UX dislikes, and if Kolari will be able to mod it, it could be very, very tempting!
Feb 02, 2015 at 08:02 PM
p.10 #3A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Thanks for the comparison shots. What are the apertures on the last 2?
Feb 02, 2015 at 08:03 PM
p.10 #4A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Wow the lux is back!!!
A7M with Sonnetar 50/1.1 (forgive cross post)
DSC00298 by unoh7, on Flickr
DSC00293 by unoh7, on Flickr
Both wide open
I Have created a A7M flickr group. Please join and contribute
A7M on Flickr!!!!
A7M with Sonnetar 50/1.1 (forgive cross post)
DSC00298 by unoh7, on Flickr
DSC00293 by unoh7, on Flickr
Both wide open
I Have created a A7M flickr group. Please join and contribute
A7M on Flickr!!!!
Feb 02, 2015 at 08:10 PM
p.10 #5A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Looks like I will have to send my A7r in for the upgrade and thanks to Jack, the 50LUX Asph is back on my want list.
Feb 02, 2015 at 09:48 PM
p.10 #6A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
JaKo wrote:
Likewise, my A7R has arrived just in time for an upcoming family event (thanks Ilija!) and a quick and dirty comparison of stock/modded versions with Zeiss Biogon ZM 2/35 and Leica-M Summilux asph shows that the upgrade was well worth every penny, just for the Lux 50 itself.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/DSC06952_640.jpg
Shot at f/5.6; 100% crop of a lower right corner
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/A7RMOD-Lux-50-5_6.jpg
awesome! that's what i wanted to see!
Likewise, my A7R has arrived just in time for an upcoming family event (thanks Ilija!) and a quick and dirty comparison of stock/modded versions with Zeiss Biogon ZM 2/35 and Leica-M Summilux asph shows that the upgrade was well worth every penny, just for the Lux 50 itself.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/DSC06952_640.jpg
Shot at f/5.6; 100% crop of a lower right corner
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/A7RMOD-Lux-50-5_6.jpg
awesome! that's what i wanted to see!
Feb 02, 2015 at 09:48 PM
p.10 #7A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
BTW: I tested AF with LAEA4 and Sony 70400G. It seems fine.
Feb 02, 2015 at 09:53 PM
p.10 #8A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
rscheffler wrote:
Now if the a9 resolves a lot of my a7 UI/UX dislikes, and if Kolari will be able to mod it, it could be very, very tempting!
Ron, I will take more shots in the next few days and post examples as suggested.
Now, that’s a $1M question! AFAIK Kolari doesn’t offer thin filter mod on IBIS (A7 MII) and I am wondering if it has anything to do with IBIS’ sensitivity to sensor stack combo weight and size.
Would altering/reducing stack’s size+weight+location affect the vibrating sensor’s package preventing IBIS from working correctly?
Also, what’s the chance that the upcoming A9 or A7R MII will not include IBIS? If so, modded A7/r /s bodies could be on a very short list for RF adaptability enthusiasts, who have no desire to go M-way.
Now if the a9 resolves a lot of my a7 UI/UX dislikes, and if Kolari will be able to mod it, it could be very, very tempting!
Ron, I will take more shots in the next few days and post examples as suggested.
Now, that’s a $1M question! AFAIK Kolari doesn’t offer thin filter mod on IBIS (A7 MII) and I am wondering if it has anything to do with IBIS’ sensitivity to sensor stack combo weight and size.
Would altering/reducing stack’s size+weight+location affect the vibrating sensor’s package preventing IBIS from working correctly?
Also, what’s the chance that the upcoming A9 or A7R MII will not include IBIS? If so, modded A7/r /s bodies could be on a very short list for RF adaptability enthusiasts, who have no desire to go M-way.
Feb 02, 2015 at 10:43 PM
p.10 #10A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Wow, great news.
That 18 ZM shots makes me hopefull for the 18 SE.
Uhoh, you also have an 28 cron right? Did you test it yet?
And what effect does the mod have on the stock 55/1.8?
That 18 ZM shots makes me hopefull for the 18 SE.
Uhoh, you also have an 28 cron right? Did you test it yet?
And what effect does the mod have on the stock 55/1.8?
Feb 03, 2015 at 03:09 AM
p.10 #11A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Bijltje wrote:
Wow, great news.
That 18 ZM shots makes me hopefull for the 18 SE.
Uhoh, you also have an 28 cron right? Did you test it yet?
And what effect does the mod have on the stock 55/1.8?
I will try to get some 28 cron shots today. Do not have 55/1.8
Wow, great news.
That 18 ZM shots makes me hopefull for the 18 SE.
Uhoh, you also have an 28 cron right? Did you test it yet?
And what effect does the mod have on the stock 55/1.8?
I will try to get some 28 cron shots today. Do not have 55/1.8
Feb 03, 2015 at 09:10 AM
p.10 #13A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
here is the ZM35/2 which was also bad.
DSC00304 by unoh7, on Flickr
DSC00306 by unoh7, on Flickr
these at f/5.6
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
DSC00304 by unoh7, on Flickr
DSC00306 by unoh7, on Flickr
these at f/5.6
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
Feb 03, 2015 at 12:48 PM
p.10 #14A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
uhoh7 wrote:
28 cron anyone?
You guys tell me, how's it doing?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/16434931921_fc6e7091fd_b.jpg
DSC00327 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/16434934001_6c8337003b_b.jpg
DSC00326 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/16249018128_fbc21145f6_b.jpg
DSC00335 by unoh7, 2.8
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/15814151504_78dd27fb2c_b.jpg
DSC00347 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/15814153784_7191fd848e_b.jpg
DSC00346 by unoh7, f/3.8ish
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/16249258670_72482c8059_b.jpg
DSC00363-2 by unoh7, f/8
Looks pretty good! Certainly f/8 is pretty solid, and I'm pretty sure that the wider apertures look better than mine did on the un-modded A7.
28 cron anyone?
You guys tell me, how's it doing?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/16434931921_fc6e7091fd_b.jpg
DSC00327 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/16434934001_6c8337003b_b.jpg
DSC00326 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/16249018128_fbc21145f6_b.jpg
DSC00335 by unoh7, 2.8
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/15814151504_78dd27fb2c_b.jpg
DSC00347 by unoh7, 5.6
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/15814153784_7191fd848e_b.jpg
DSC00346 by unoh7, f/3.8ish
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/16249258670_72482c8059_b.jpg
DSC00363-2 by unoh7, f/8
Looks pretty good! Certainly f/8 is pretty solid, and I'm pretty sure that the wider apertures look better than mine did on the un-modded A7.
Feb 03, 2015 at 01:07 PM
p.10 #15A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).
uhoh7 wrote:
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has been that it doesn't really allow you to see best placement of the optimal plane of focus, unless using magnified focus assist (and when stopped down a fair amount, this can also be less distinct), which slows things down. Oh, and infinity hard stop being at actual infinity, not past it due to an adapter that is slightly too short (which I suppose can be resolved with shimming... one more thing to do).
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.
uhoh7 wrote:
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has been that it doesn't really allow you to see best placement of the optimal plane of focus, unless using magnified focus assist (and when stopped down a fair amount, this can also be less distinct), which slows things down. Oh, and infinity hard stop being at actual infinity, not past it due to an adapter that is slightly too short (which I suppose can be resolved with shimming... one more thing to do).
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.
Feb 03, 2015 at 01:44 PM
p.10 #16A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
rscheffler wrote:
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has...Show more →
Hi Ron,
That is all true, with the A7 series cameras you can actually see/test the DOF which can only be guessed upon when using a RF camera. Also, with the Phigment Adapter at least to about 50mm (the adapter was designed before the FF cameras; Paul is considering making an adapter that prevents vignetting for FF with 75mm lenses and longer in the future) when set properly will automatically adjust to magnified view when the lens focus is adjusted which helps in making the proper focus adjustment.
Rich
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).
uhoh7 wrote
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
Hi Ron,
That is all true, with the A7 series cameras you can actually see/test the DOF which can only be guessed upon when using a RF camera. Also, with the Phigment Adapter at least to about 50mm (the adapter was designed before the FF cameras; Paul is considering making an adapter that prevents vignetting for FF with 75mm lenses and longer in the future) when set properly will automatically adjust to magnified view when the lens focus is adjusted which helps in making the proper focus adjustment.
Rich
Feb 03, 2015 at 02:20 PM
p.10 #17A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
rscheffler wrote:
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has...Show more →
Both M240 and M9 are superior still, no question, both in terms of outright image quality on the edges with these lenses, and of course, an in-camera correction for vignette and colorcast that actually works, before we even get to actual use.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF will like RF better. I do.
But the bottomline: We now have a 1300USD camera that does some degree of justice to the incredible M and LTM lens choices. This should be headline news.
I think we will also find it is ripping it pretty good with SLR glass as well. As stated by others, any lens designed for film should perform better on the A7M
28 cron 5.6:
DSC00357 by unoh7, on Flickr
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).
uhoh7 wrote
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
Both M240 and M9 are superior still, no question, both in terms of outright image quality on the edges with these lenses, and of course, an in-camera correction for vignette and colorcast that actually works, before we even get to actual use.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF will like RF better. I do.
But the bottomline: We now have a 1300USD camera that does some degree of justice to the incredible M and LTM lens choices. This should be headline news.
I think we will also find it is ripping it pretty good with SLR glass as well. As stated by others, any lens designed for film should perform better on the A7M
28 cron 5.6:
DSC00357 by unoh7, on Flickr
Feb 03, 2015 at 05:42 PM
p.10 #18A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
uhoh7 wrote:
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has been that it doesn't really allow you to see best placement of the optimal plane of focus, unless using magnified focus assist (and when stopped down a fair amount, this can also be less distinct), which slows things down. Oh, and infinity hard stop being at actual infinity, not past it due to an adapter that is slightly too short (which I suppose can be resolved with shimming... one more thing to do).
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.Both M240 and M9 are superior still, no question, both in terms of outright image quality on the edges with these lenses, and of course, an in-camera correction for vignette and colorcast that actually works, before we even get to actual use.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF...Show more →
Hi Charlie,
Unless I am mistaken at least much of the vignetting and some lens correction of many M and 20 R lenses (as well as many other lenses) can be handled at least to some extent using software including LR 5.7. Of course the M lenses were designed for the M cameras and Leica has worked the camera software to work at or near optimum for their lenses. The M lenses are foreign to the A7 series cameras and Sony would have absolutely no reason to build in the correction for vignetting and color correction for M lenses used on their cameras.
Rich
rscheffler wrote
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).uhoh7 wrote
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF...Show more →
Hi Charlie,
Unless I am mistaken at least much of the vignetting and some lens correction of many M and 20 R lenses (as well as many other lenses) can be handled at least to some extent using software including LR 5.7. Of course the M lenses were designed for the M cameras and Leica has worked the camera software to work at or near optimum for their lenses. The M lenses are foreign to the A7 series cameras and Sony would have absolutely no reason to build in the correction for vignetting and color correction for M lenses used on their cameras.
Rich
Feb 03, 2015 at 06:25 PM
p.10 #19A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Distortion, color shading & vignetting can be corrected, but not smearing, which this modification does improve, including the color shading & vignetting(to some degree).
Feb 03, 2015 at 06:37 PM
p.10 #20A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
uhoh7 wrote:
AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.An aspect where I think the RF still has advantage is quick focusing situations, especially when stopped down a bit. No matter how stopped down, the RF patch always shows you exactly where the optimum focus plane will be (unless the lens has focus shift - there are always tradeoffs!). While you can use focus peaking with the EVF, my experience has been that it doesn't really allow you to see best placement of the optimal plane of focus, unless using magnified focus assist (and when stopped down a fair amount, this can also be less distinct), which slows things down. Oh, and infinity hard stop being at actual infinity, not past it due to an adapter that is slightly too short (which I suppose can be resolved with shimming... one more thing to do).
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.Both M240 and M9 are superior still, no question, both in terms of outright image quality on the edges with these lenses, and of course, an in-camera correction for vignette and colorcast that actually works, before we even get to actual use.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF...Show more →
Have you tried your Elmarit v3 on it yet?
rscheffler wrote
Keep in mind too that the 28 Cron has some field curvature and takes stopping down to around f/4 on a digital M to bring up the corners/edges too. But these samples look way better than an unmodded a7(x).uhoh7 wrote
I think we are seeing a big improvement, but the M240 is still a bit better on the edges, I'd guess, but suddenly the camera is quite decent with these two lenses. Had it been this good stock I doubt I would have bought an M9. I love that camera and am glad I have it now.AF seems to work fine with sony lenses as well.
Minimal PP on all these.
As stated, every system has tradeoffs.
This mod at least opens up a viable alternative to digital M for many applications. IMO, it doesn't replace digital M in respect to shooting style and full compatibility, but it does offer other options currently lacking with digital M.
Fundamentals in use: M bodies have accurate infinity stop for the lenses, which is huge huge huge.
But....A7M can close focus with Hawks and some other adapters, and that's pretty cool.
Sony battery is terrible and RAWs are lossy, menu system awful. Focus is usable, and for many it's superior, but those who take the time to really learn the RF...Show more →
Have you tried your Elmarit v3 on it yet?
Feb 03, 2015 at 06:39 PM