jctriguy wrote:
nope...selling it all...canon is going down in a DR, banding, noisy blaze of glory...people will be crying in the streets...its all over
Cheer up, mate. After all, they just tools...get whatever you need right now then the one you love later . Your health is more important than get into the depression mode
ggreene wrote:
His A6000/1DX comparison for action AF was funny as well. He linked to a video of a guy doing a model shoot in an abandoned church as the proof it had solid AF for action. Good stuff.
Yes, he is something quite special and no doubt will be a great loss to FM when his parents discover there's a parental lock on the home PC. Nonetheless, I feel quite privileged to have seen the A6000 video that leaves one in no doubt, it is the 1Dx killer. To be fair though, the writing was on the wall, waaaaaaaay back in July 2012, this Nikon shooter exposed the 1Dx for what it is, the DXO metrics don't lie and the images made are a damning indictment of Canon's incremental technology improvements. The link is here http://www.andyrouse.co.uk/blog/223.php it makes grim viewing, so be warned
artd wrote:
I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just offer an opinion that goes contrary to "toy-like build quality."
Perhaps for the last part should I have instead been more explicit and said "I agree with Jon Tainton that it is a little odd comparing an A7 series to a 1D series." ?
Perhaps you could have replied
"Its just same old, same old, mttran, shilling the A7 series, there's nothing odd about that" I might have written a whimisical reply pointing out the 1D series has some impressive credentials for environmental sealing. Come to think of it, haven't even entry level Canon cameras, some sort of environmental sealing?
Now, If I recollect correctly, Sony had to withdraw their claimed 'environmental weather sealing' on the A7 product spec, because, embarrassingly there is none. Nothing, zilch, not a gasket or O ring to be seen. Lens Rentals tear down confirmed the absence of environmental sealing, and advised that a plastic bag would be a handy accessory for A7 series owners in the event of precipitation. Now as a child, I was always told to bring the toys in from outside, if rain threatened. Living in the UK this wasn't an uncommon activity and probably equates my thinking of anything you can't leave out in the rain, as having toy like build quality
Jon Tainton wrote:
Perhaps you could have replied
"Its just same old, same old, mttran, shilling the A7 series, there's nothing odd about that" I might have written a whimisical reply pointing out the 1D series has some impressive credentials for environmental sealing. Come to think of it, haven't even entry level Canon cameras, some sort of environmental sealing?
Now, If I recollect correctly, Sony had to withdraw their claimed 'environmental weather sealing' on the A7 product spec, because, embarrassingly there is none. Nothing, zilch, not a gasket or O ring to be seen. Lens Rentals tear down confirmed the absence of environmental sealing, and advised that a plastic bag would be a handy accessory for A7 series owners in the event of precipitation. Now as a child, I was always told to bring the toys in from outside, if rain threatened. Living in the UK this wasn't an uncommon activity and probably equates my thinking of anything you can't leave out in the rain, as having toy like build quality ...Show more →
Jon, I have owned & used multiple 1dseries, 5series and now a7r. I don't see what you are seeing. Why don't you cut the crap and let it go. All I care is their imaging creation I don't give a darn about their physical things. They all toys to me and I use the right tool for my needs.
It seems this has devolved into Yet Another Canon bashing/defending thread (with the occasional lashout at Sony). So at the risk of going way OT, anybody figure out what the See Impossible campaign was all about? A 2-page spread in the NYT for an overwhelmingly underwhelming website seems a bit ... odd. At least the white Rebel was a product. But maybe I'm missing something.
wfektar wrote:
...anybody figure out what the See Impossible campaign was all about? A 2-page spread in the NYT for an overwhelmingly underwhelming website seems a bit ... odd. At least the white Rebel was a product. But maybe I'm missing something.
My intuition tells me to stick it out with Canon. I truly believe in the next 12 months they will make good. Besides the lenses are the best lenses made today. Not to mention worse case scenario, the next sony refresh will likely address some of the quirks.
mttran wrote:
Jon, I have owned & used multiple 1dseries, 5series and now a7r. I don't see what you are seeing. Why don't you cut the crap and let it go. All I care is their imaging creation I don't give a darn about their physical things. They all toys to me and I use the right tool for my needs.
Interesting. You write more coherently when you are frustrated.
Now, if someone thinks the a7 series is 'toy like' that is up to them. You can argue with that opinion all you want, but it is a little pointless. People have a different perspective on any things in life, even if the eyes don't lie ;-)
jctriguy wrote:
Interesting. You write more coherently when you are frustrated.
Now, if someone thinks the a7 series is 'toy like' that is up to them. You can argue with that opinion all you want, but it is a little pointless. People have a different perspective on any things in life, even if the eyes don't lie ;-)
Remember to keep the blood pressure down.
Thank for reminder, JC. Whatever he think it does not bother me but he keep quote me for something that's not relate what I said so it does bother me some
I've had the A7r, now have an A7, but shoot primarily with M9 since January.
Build: no comparison on build, the M9 and the Canon 6D are both way ahead of A7 in toughness, though I hear A7s is a bit better. Worst is the A7 battery bay door. But I would not call the build "toy like" as in many respects it's reasonably done.
If the A7 had a more friendly sensor, with thinner cover, it would be a serious threat to Canikon, but as is, the camera, as mentioned in the thread is "limited".
They can leave the DSLR line intact with better sensors for 5D, but if Canon has any vision, the A7 should be a DIY for a new compact pro FF line, without prism. Obviously the market craves M alternative. To really make such a rig go, it's going to have to accept and shoot the M glass well. Only that will make the buzz needed for really high sales. That would mean admitting Leica makes better glass than canon....sort of....
Anyway I'm surprised no one will answer Sony's gambit before xmass. Certainly many hoped "see impossible" was going to be exactly this.
Sony would love some real steps into the future, as they very much want multiple sensor customers and a healthy industry, with decent, post-bubble sales. Even if Canon does not use sony sensors, somebody will.
As to used Sonys, there are always used sonys. So seeing A7 cameras for sale is more an indication they sold a bunch, than an indication the camera is a failure. In fact the A7 is a very near miss which Canikon ignores at their peril.
Am I missing something? Why would you need more DR with high ISO? I maen if you are near dark conditions needing High ISO,wouldnt DR be the least of your worries since even the human eye cant make out that much in the dark,15 stop DR would matter in normal lighting conditions where there are shadows.
Jon Tainton wrote:
Now, If I recollect correctly, Sony had to withdraw their claimed 'environmental weather sealing' on the A7 product spec, because, embarrassingly there is none. Nothing, zilch, not a gasket or O ring to be seen. Lens Rentals tear down confirmed the absence of environmental sealing, and advised that a plastic bag would be a handy accessory for A7 series owners in the event of precipitation. Now as a child, I was always told to bring the toys in from outside, if rain threatened. Living in the UK this wasn't an uncommon activity and probably equates my thinking of anything you can't leave out in the rain, as having toy like build quality ...Show more →
I don't believe that Sony's specs ever made the claim of "enironmental weather sealing." Their intial press release did say the camera was "dust and weather resitatant." Of course "resistant" is one of those meaningless marketing words that gets tossed around rather casually by companies to try create expectations that aren't necessarily correct. (Though the manual itself did state to not expose the camera to rain or moisture.)
As far as Canon's entry-level cameras having weather sealing, I don't know, and since I don't own one I've never had a reason to investigate that. I do know I've seen enough topics discussions of cameras of various levels (and various brands) suffering problems from water intrusion, and people disgruntled because their camera's supposed weather resistance was not what they thought it was. I'll leave that debate to others. (But personally, if my work required shooting in rain, I wouldn't trust anything below a 1D series.)
I was never told to bring my toys in from the rain, unless they happend to have batteries...my father (being an electrician) instilled in me from a very early age that I should never mix water with anything electronic. And he was very deliberate in educating me on the difference between "waterproof" and "water resistant."
uhoh7 wrote:
I've had the A7r, now have an A7, but shoot primarily with M9 since January.
Build: no comparison on build, the M9 and the Canon 6D are both way ahead of A7 in toughness, though I hear A7s is a bit better. Worst is the A7 battery bay door. But I would not call the build "toy like" as in many respects it's reasonably done.
If the A7 had a more friendly sensor, with thinner cover, it would be a serious threat to Canikon, but as is, the camera, as mentioned in the thread is "limited".
They can leave the DSLR line intact with better sensors for 5D, but if Canon has any vision, the A7 should be a DIY for a new compact pro FF line, without prism. Obviously the market craves M alternative. To really make such a rig go, it's going to have to accept and shoot the M glass well. Only that will make the buzz needed for really high sales. That would mean admitting Leica makes better glass than canon....sort of....
Anyway I'm surprised no one will answer Sony's gambit before xmass. Certainly many hoped "see impossible" was going to be exactly this.
Sony would love some real steps into the future, as they very much want multiple sensor customers and a healthy industry, with decent, post-bubble sales. Even if Canon does not use sony sensors, somebody will.
As to used Sonys, there are always used sonys. So seeing A7 cameras for sale is more an indication they sold a bunch, than an indication the camera is a failure. In fact the A7 is a very near miss which Canikon ignores at their peril. ...Show more →
Go look on the Flickr camera finder at the number of sony a7 and leica M users. The total combined number of all a7 users and all M users is smaller than the 5D3 user base alone. I honestly don't think there is nearly as much demand for those cameras as the alt forum users want to believe.
That's not to say that canon couldn't create a market for a FF mirror less camera that has decent battery life, excellent build quality, great layout, and actual AF. But right now, they don't appear interested in screwing about with sony's minuscule slice of the pie.
kezeka wrote:
Go look on the Flickr camera finder at the number of sony a7 and leica M users. The total combined number of all a7 users and all M users is smaller than the 5D3 user base alone. I honestly don't think there is nearly as much demand for those cameras as the alt forum users want to believe.
That's not to say that canon couldn't create a market for a FF mirror less camera that has decent battery life, excellent build quality, great layout, and actual AF. But right now, they don't appear interested in screwing about with sony's minuscule slice of the pie....Show more →
But Canon as of now can't compete on image quality
kezeka wrote:
Go look on the Flickr camera finder at the number of sony a7 and leica M users. The total combined number of all a7 users and all M users is smaller than the 5D3 user base alone. I honestly don't think there is nearly as much demand for those cameras as the alt forum users want to believe.
That's not to say that canon couldn't create a market for a FF mirror less camera that has decent battery life, excellent build quality, great layout, and actual AF. But right now, they don't appear interested in screwing about with sony's minuscule slice of the pie....Show more →
Canon's revenue has been going down the last two years. You bet they are interested in where they can increase their revenues.
chez wrote:
Canon's revenue has been going down the last two years. You bet they are interested in where they can increase their revenues.
The entire camera market has been losing revenue at pretty much the same rate if I remember correctly. Unless I am mistaken, I believe that most of that revenue loss is from point and shoots. SLRs don't seem to be losing out at quite the same rate.
I imagine Sony's mobile phone sensor and lens division is probably making more money selling componentry to Apple than the rest of their camera division combined.
kezeka wrote:
The entire camera market has been losing revenue at pretty much the same rate if I remember correctly. Unless I am mistaken, I believe that most of that revenue loss is from point and shoots. SLRs don't seem to be losing out at quite the same rate.
I imagine Sony's mobile phone sensor and lens division is probably making more money selling componentry to Apple than the rest of their camera division combined.
From a business perspective, it really doesn't matter why revenue is going down...it is not good news. Unit sales of DSLR's were down for Canon last year and are predicted to be further down this year. Not good. Their cine business is taking up the slack.
wfektar wrote:
It seems this has devolved into Yet Another Canon bashing/defending thread (with the occasional lashout at Sony). So at the risk of going way OT, anybody figure out what the See Impossible campaign was all about? A 2-page spread in the NYT for an overwhelmingly underwhelming website seems a bit ... odd. At least the white Rebel was a product. But maybe I'm missing something.
It's generated a lot of talk about Canon. It has to do with the awareness of a product/company. If you're forgotten from the public's mind, you are gone. People will get over the "what was that all about?" but the name Canon will stick in one's memory.
Example: How many people here recall what Watergate was all about (or better yet, know the details)? Yet, the name lingers on and it's being used as a metaphor for something that went wrong. Just like the name Waterloo.
kezeka wrote:
Go look on the Flickr camera finder at the number of sony a7 and leica M users. The total combined number of all a7 users and all M users is smaller than the 5D3 user base alone.
If it's true that number of 5D3 users is anywhere near A7 + Leica M users, I would say that is very encouraging for Sony and Leica, and anyone who wants to build a great alternative to the big prism DSLRs.
I would have guessed 5D3 use would dwarf A7+ Leica M, by video users alone.
Point is this:
Bubble is over.
DSLR market will exist, but is pretty mature. Shares are staked out, and incremental development will follow.
FF EVIL is the niche with growth potential: it should attract some adaptive radiation soon.
wfektar wrote:
It seems this has devolved into Yet Another Canon bashing/defending thread (with the occasional lashout at Sony). So at the risk of going way OT, anybody figure out what the See Impossible campaign was all about? A 2-page spread in the NYT for an overwhelmingly underwhelming website seems a bit ... odd. At least the white Rebel was a product. But maybe I'm missing something.
