It was awhile back but someone on the Alt forum mentioned that they work in the industry and the Sony A7 was one of the most returned cameras of 2013.
I wouldn't know how true that is. For all I know, it could be as true as the fluff that you read on the gossip papers (Sources close to blah blah blah...). However there are a damn lot of Sony A7 on eBay.
From all accounts, the A7 is a ground breaking camera but limited application. On one hand, you have to applaud Sony's push on sensor dev. On the other hand, they seemed to have forgotten about everything else.
Using an analogy - If Audi made a car tomorrow with R8 performance but forgot to installed a reverse gear, it won't be too popular with the customers.
felixj wrote:
It was awhile back but someone on the Alt forum mentioned that they work in the industry and the Sony A7 was one of the most returned cameras of 2013.
I wouldn't know how true that is. For all I know, it could be as true as the fluff that you read on the gossip papers (Sources close to blah blah blah...). However there are a damn lot of Sony A7 on eBay.
From all accounts, the A7 is a ground breaking camera but limited application. On one hand, you have to applaud Sony's push on sensor dev. On the other hand, they seemed to have forgotten about everything else.
Using an analogy - If Audi made a car tomorrow with R8 performance but forgot to installed a reverse gear, it won't be too popular with the customers. ...Show more →
I don't know. I actually was looking a while back and wasn't finding many places that had used A7R for sale and even ebay didn't have a ton. I was surprised how few actually, not how many.
Even on FM B&S A7Rs for sale looks to be pretty rare.
felixj wrote:
It was awhile back but someone on the Alt forum mentioned that they work in the industry and the Sony A7 was one of the most returned cameras of 2013.
I wouldn't know how true that is. For all I know, it could be as true as the fluff that you read on the gossip papers (Sources close to blah blah blah...). However there are a damn lot of Sony A7 on eBay.
From all accounts, the A7 is a ground breaking camera but limited application. On one hand, you have to applaud Sony's push on sensor dev. On the other hand, they seemed to have forgotten about everything else.
Using an analogy - If Audi made a car tomorrow with R8 performance but forgot to installed a reverse gear, it won't be too popular with the customers. ...Show more →
Doesn't sound like you ever used any of the A7 series cameras yourself. I visited two weeks ago B&H and talked to one of the representatives. He told me that the Sony A7 series is one of their best sellers since a while in the camera segment - no numbers were provided. But he added that many add this camera to their existing DSLR and lens gear. He also mentioned the issue which many have with this camera: the lack of a variety of AF based FE lenses.
I don't think from my experience with this camera that it is very limited in its application - the areas where I wouldn't use it for are birding/wildlife, sports, and action photography. For everything else it works very well. I see its benefit especially for landscape and macro photography, but I also used it very successfully for candid and portrait shooting. IMO also the ideal travel camera and to take with me on hikes.
I don't see where your car analogy would fit here since the A7 series is a very popular and desired camera.
No disagreement for A7 for hiking. No reasonable person wants to carry the weight of a SLR. I actually quite like the idea of A7, particularly for landscapes and night sky. Maybe when prices drop further on eBay since A7 life cycle seem shorter and I have no absolute need for latest and greatest. However that is probably GAS talking as I really have no need for a new camera.
I probably sound more negative than I intended. Everything is relative, and I suspect posting capability of A7 on a Canon forum probably set it on the wrong tone for comparison, particularly when I think it is far from versatility of an SLR. Sony ecosystems just isn't complete and they seem to be pushing out bodies after bodies. Not every user wants to use manual focus or adapted lens.
It certainly isn't my intention to slam Sony. I am sure camera is more capable than I am a photographer. However if u want an all purpose camera, dslr is still the best value for money. I accept that will change eventually. For me personally, I think Olympus has made great stride (maybe the best) in this space. The only downside is the sensor size but we don't always need large sensors.
felixj wrote:
No disagreement for A7 for hiking. No reasonable person wants to carry the weight of a SLR. I actually quite like the idea of A7, particularly for landscapes and night sky. Maybe when prices drop further on eBay since A7 life cycle seem shorter and I have no absolute need for latest and greatest. However that is probably GAS talking as I really have no need for a new camera.
I probably sound more negative than I intended. Everything is relative, and I suspect posting capability of A7 on a Canon forum probably set it on the wrong tone for comparison, particularly when I think it is far from versatility of an SLR. Sony ecosystems just isn't complete and they seem to be pushing out bodies after bodies. Not every user wants to use manual focus or adapted lens.
It certainly isn't my intention to slam Sony. I am sure camera is more capable than I am a photographer. However if u want an all purpose camera, dslr is still the best value for money. I accept that will change eventually. For me personally, I think Olympus has made great stride (maybe the best) in this space. The only downside is the sensor size but we don't always need large sensors.
I agree with you here. No need to go for the latest - I also wait before I purchase a new camera until the initial price has come down. Yes, Sony will keep up a fast pace and instead of supporting existing models with newer better firmware they will just release a new body next year with better performance. Prices likely will drop further in the next couple of months for A7(R) cameras. I am not surprised by this, I knew about this and Sony's drawbacks when I made my decision to go for the A7R. For me the benefits of this camera outweigh by far the cons.
And yes, if MF lenses are no option, then the available AF lens options are very limited. I wanted mainly to use the A7R with MF lenses, so I was and still are not interested in any of the FE lenses. And yes, depending on your needs a cheaper DSLR or mirrorless with cropped sensor might be the better price/value option. At least it is good that there are plenty of camera choices out there. Most important is to have fun with photo shooting!
artd wrote:
I'd disagree with the "toy-like build" assessment. I have found the build quality rather solid. Certainly not up to the 1D series, but to me it seems on par with DSLRs in the same price range. (Mine has certainly survived some abuse too, including a fall onto concrete from about 5 feet up).
That said, it is a little odd to be comparing an A7 series to a 1D series..
Ah, the isolated, selective quote with no prior context. You need to address your concern of raising 1D/A7 series build comparison with mttran.
retrofocus wrote:
This is partially correct. Especially Leica wide angle lenses have issues on the A7 sensor because of the thicker DSLR sensor glass cover which Sony uses for its Exmor FF sensors. 50 mm and above Leica lenses work fine to my knowledge. It is interesting to see some Leica glass development - the M lenses which work fine on the A7 series increased in price quite a bit whereas lenses which suffer from some issues with this sensor remained constant or dropped a little. I was recently in a Leica store where I was told that Leica registered an increased demand for some M lenses whereas M camera sales remained fairly constant. So yes, Leica seems to profit from new mirrorless camera systems. Instead of replacing A7 series cameras with M bodies, it is more that M series owners have in addition ponied up with the A7 series and use both (the M series more for the 35 mm and other wide angle lenses).
Sony tried hard to get into this market with this camera and even gave for free the Metabones adapter for Canon mount in countries like Australia. IMO the A7 series sold in high quantities worldwide, even the price for the cameras dropped quickly it is still a big success for Sony.
I know some who only bought Canon TSE lenses to use them with Sony cameras - photographers who don't have any other Canon gear. I don't know anybody who switched from D800 to Canon for TSE lens usage, but it is possible. But I know a handful of landscape photographers who jumped from Canon to Nikon with the D800(E) and now D810. In fact I got my 24 TSE lens used from a landscape photographer who made this switch and had to sell his lens.
The current FE Sony/Zeiss lenses seem still to incorporate DSLR lens designs which doesn't make them a lot smaller unfortunately. Zeiss realized this and introduced the Loxia lens line with manual focus prime lenses for the E-mount. Even those are not fully redesigned lenses and still not rangefinder size lenses. Currently there is a market niche for affordable, good quality small MF and AF based lenses which can be used with the A7 series.
I doubt that Canon profited from the A7 with 16-35/4 sales since Sony/Zeiss also released a 16-35/4 lens recently which is slightly better than the Canon equivalent lens . Agree with the demand for TSE lenses from Sony users (see my point above). FD lenses are available on the used camera market and no longer sold by Canon directly. Not sure if Canon's camera segment did so well since a while.....definitely several EF and L lens prices started dropping due to lower demand. ...Show more →
As far as I'm aware, the Canon L 16-35/4 is on retailers shelves and in use out in the wild. Whilst the Sony FE 16-35/4 is an announcement and hasn't shipped yet? So, how do you know the Sony lens is slightly better?
You may have missed jcolwell post that states "I follow Canon and Alt lens prices fairly closely, and there's no evidence that Canon used lens prices are dropping, or have recently dropped"
Can you share your data on the sales figures of the A7 series, as CIPA data and analysis of image upload data doesn't suggest high quantities of global sales even in the small, but highly competitive, mirrorless ILC market.
Jon Tainton wrote:
Ah, the isolated, selective quote with no prior context. You need to address your concern of raising 1D/A7 series build comparison with mttran.
His A6000/1DX comparison for action AF was funny as well. He linked to a video of a guy doing a model shoot in an abandoned church as the proof it had solid AF for action. Good stuff.
Jon Tainton wrote:
As far as I'm aware, the Canon L 16-35/4 is on retailers shelves and in use out in the wild. Whilst the Sony FE 16-35/4 is an announcement and hasn't shipped yet? So, how do you know the Sony lens is slightly better?
You may have missed jcolwell post that states "I follow Canon and Alt lens prices fairly closely, and there's no evidence that Canon used lens prices are dropping, or have recently dropped"
Can you share your data on the sales figures of the A7 series, as CIPA data and analysis of image upload data doesn't suggest high quantities of global sales even in the small, but highly competitive, mirrorless ILC market.
I couldn't care less what one specific person mentioned has to say - look at the used Canon lens gear prices and you see the drop instantly. No question about it. More supply (available lenses on the market) than demand.
As I said earlier, it was directly confirmed to me that the A7 series is a very good seller. As nobody else, I have no other figures. Canon can only wish that its mirrorless series would have had such impact....
I couldn't care less what one specific person mentioned has to say - look at the used Canon lens gear prices and you see the drop instantly. No question about it. More supply (available lenses on the market) than demand.
As I said earlier, it was directly confirmed to me that the A7 series is a very good seller. As nobody else, I have no other figures. Canon can only wish that its mirrorless series would have had such impact....
Give me a good price on their M series mirror less and I'll be buying. I'll work within the limitations of the Canon crop sensor gladly with the compact size.
I couldn't care less what one specific person mentioned has to say - look at the used Canon lens gear prices and you see the drop instantly. No question about it. More supply (available lenses on the market) than demand.
As I said earlier, it was directly confirmed to me that the A7 series is a very good seller. As nobody else, I have no other figures. Canon can only wish that its mirrorless series would have had such impact....
You really have no clue here..
Had a long reply typed, but the above is all that needs to be said...
Jon Tainton wrote:
Ah, the isolated, selective quote with no prior context. You need to address your concern of raising 1D/A7 series build comparison with mttran.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just offer an opinion that goes contrary to "toy-like build quality."
Perhaps for the last part should I have instead been more explicit and said "I agree with Jon Tainton that it is a little odd comparing an A7 series to a 1D series." ?
Jon Tainton wrote:
Ah, the isolated, selective quote with no prior context. You need to address your concern of raising 1D/A7 series build comparison with mttran.
ggreene wrote:
His A6000/1DX comparison for action AF was funny as well. He linked to a video of a guy doing a model shoot in an abandoned church as the proof it had solid AF for action. Good stuff.
Gentlement, please STOP. You have distorted my msgs. Why don't you re-read the poster before mine and what I actually have responded for his needs. I do not bother to show them here
Well that it. I selling all my canon befores implode and value my gear goes zero. Too bad it took me so long since all these days of banding and DR shadow lack of clarity...
jctriguy wrote:
Well that it. I selling all my canon befores implode and value my gear goes zero. Too bad it took me so long since all these days of banding and DR shadow lack of clarity...
Don't worry JC, they will have 15 stops DR soon then you and me can buy again.
, can they do something right