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Archive 2014 · At Canon, We See Impossible

  
 
skibum5
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p.21 #1 · At Canon, We See Impossible


panicatnabisco wrote:
Can't help but laugh at these paranoids thinking camera manufactures have personal vendettas against them that they selectively hold back features that no one really cares about except for them.

Aren't you a unique snowflake


It's not a paranoid thought about some personal vendetta. It's not a vendetta, there is nothing personal about it at all, and if you look over the forums you'll see people have been getting on them for crippling the AutoISO for years, many people and if you don't think companies play games with features you are rather naive (or more, considering that in one case the company even outright said they played a game in one case).



Oct 08, 2014 at 12:29 PM
retrofocus
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p.21 #2 · At Canon, We See Impossible


Even I fully agree with the post mentioning the lack of new sensor technology in Canon FF cameras since a long time by now, I am quite certain that Canon will come up with someting new in this regard at some point (my unverified guess is 2015). For Canon ist is now a matter to stay in business with FF technology, and they won't let this fully slip. It will be a catch-up game for Canon - we will see what they show up with.

But don't keep your hopes up that you will see soon a 5D MkIV (a real 5D MkII successor so to speak since the MkIII wasn't it). First Canon will follow its ridden path and come up with a new brick-like 1D-series camera with their novel FF sensor before they will announce a 5D related model at least 6 months later. Then it will be interesting to see what the competition will have at this point. The Sony Exmor 50 MP sensor is also rumored....if Sony/Nikon move one stop ahead it means that Canon needs to move at least two steps to move equal.

Edited on Oct 08, 2014 at 12:39 PM · View previous versions



Oct 08, 2014 at 12:32 PM
jctriguy
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p.21 #3 · At Canon, We See Impossible


retrofocus wrote:
Even I fully agree with the post mentioning the lack of new sensor technology in Canon FF cameras since a long time by now, I am quite certain that Canon will come up with someting new in this regard at some point (my unverified guess is 2015). For Canon ist is now a matter to stay in business with FF technology, and they won't let this fully slip. It will be a catch-up game for Canon - we will see what they show up with.

But don't keep your hopes up that you will see soon a 5D MkIV (a real
...Show more

"unverified guess" is both redundant and at the same time a true statement about every post you make.

"matter to stay in business with FF technology" quite laughable that you and many others think this to be the case. The 'non real successor" to the 5DII was likely a huge seller for Canon. Apparently the people that bought the 5DIII, and are overwhelmingly happy with it, don't seem to have the same doom and gloom approach to the camera industry.



Oct 08, 2014 at 12:37 PM
Imagemaster
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p.21 #4 · At Canon, We See Impossible


I only make verified guesses and am seldom right.


Oct 08, 2014 at 12:43 PM
retrofocus
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p.21 #5 · At Canon, We See Impossible


jctriguy wrote:
"unverified guess" is both redundant and at the same time a true statement about every post you make.

"matter to stay in business with FF technology" quite laughable that you and many others think this to be the case. The 'non real successor" to the 5DII was likely a huge seller for Canon. Apparently the people that bought the 5DIII, and are overwhelmingly happy with it, don't seem to have the same doom and gloom approach to the camera industry.


Understand that many companies have their up and downs. Well, as we know, Canon is innovation wise especially in regard to sensors in a crisis caused by complacency after the success of the 5D MkII in the FF area, misjudgment of demand in new sensor technology and movement of competitors of Sony and Nikon which simply overran Canon with first the D800(E) and then a second time with the A7 series.



Oct 08, 2014 at 12:46 PM
mjgphotoz
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p.21 #6 · At Canon, We See Impossible


Imagemaster wrote:
It's really, really funny that you had to deal with such an important issue.



Yes, it is an important issue for many. If it does not effect your usage, then happy you. For anyone who does not wish to point the middle of their lens at the middle of a dark object surrounded by darkness or shadows and pray it is in focus because they "know" where the middle focus point is and "know" that the selected point is still the middle where they left it and are sure it is happily catching a point of contrast to focus, it is a problem. If you are willing to accept the framing provided by your camera when only using center focus, go for it. Try doing night shots of the SF Bridge with your trusty center point on moving water in the dark. And yes, I am talking while using a tripod. Absent activating the AF points and manually selecting where you want the focus, you are going to be disappointed in the composition, the focus, or both. For landscape images, this adds an additional step in the process. For images created during an on going event, involving any motion or emotion to be captured, this results in missed shots. So yes, for me it sure does matter.

mjgphotoz



Oct 08, 2014 at 12:51 PM
jctriguy
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p.21 #7 · At Canon, We See Impossible


retrofocus wrote:
Understand that many companies have their up and downs. Well, as we know, Canon is innovation wise especially in regard to sensors in a crisis caused by complacency after the success of the 5D MkII in the FF area, misjudgment of demand in new sensor technology and movement of competitors of Sony and Nikon which simply overran Canon with first the D800(E) and then a second time with the A7 series.


Do you realize that you just passed off numerous opinions as facts, then turned around and used those 'facts' to justify your opinion. Some excellent reasoning going on here.



Oct 08, 2014 at 01:00 PM
charlesk
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p.21 #8 · At Canon, We See Impossible


retrofocus wrote:
First Canon will follow its ridden path and come up with a new brick-like 1D-series camera with their novel FF sensor before they will announce a 5D related model at least 6 months later.


You know what, at this point even that would be okay by me -- even though I wouldn't be able to afford that new "1D brick". At least it would demonstrate that someone at Canon has their hands on the rudder.

Many of us built up a stable of Canon glass in part because of the leadership they showed with FF about 5-10 years ago. And since then... it's like everyone has gone to sleep. It's 2014, and their flagship is a $6800 camera with 18 megapixels? REALLY?

If they don't get their act together soon, I for one will switch to Nikon. And then I will not switch back unless Nikon similarly goes to sleep for the better part of a decade, which I do not think is going to happen. I am sure I am not alone.



Oct 08, 2014 at 01:33 PM
jctriguy
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p.21 #9 · At Canon, We See Impossible


charlesk wrote:
You know what, at this point even that would be okay by me -- even though I wouldn't be able to afford that new "1D brick". At least it would demonstrate that someone at Canon has their hands on the rudder.

Many of us built up a stable of Canon glass in part because of the leadership they showed with FF about 5-10 years ago. And since then... it's like everyone has gone to sleep. It's 2014, and their flagship is a $6800 camera with 18 megapixels? REALLY?

If they don't get their act together soon, I for one will switch to
...Show more
I'd suggest switching now...



Oct 08, 2014 at 01:37 PM
Imagemaster
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p.21 #10 · At Canon, We See Impossible


mjgphotoz wrote:
Yes, it is an important issue for many. If it does not effect your usage, then happy you. For anyone who does not wish to point the middle of their lens at the middle of a dark object surrounded by darkness or shadows and pray it is in focus because they "know" where the middle focus point is and "know" that the selected point is still the middle where they left it and are sure it is happily catching a point of contrast to focus, it is a problem. If you are willing to accept the framing provided by your
...Show more

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. The subject of this thread is about a PR announcement from Canon. It had nothing to do with what you are talking about. Did Canon's announcement promise to say anything you are talking about? No. Therefore there was no issue to get excited about.

Your issue or issues had zero to do with the subject of this thread.




Oct 08, 2014 at 01:37 PM
skibum5
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p.21 #11 · At Canon, We See Impossible


charlesk wrote:
You know what, at this point even that would be okay by me -- even though I wouldn't be able to afford that new "1D brick". At least it would demonstrate that someone at Canon has their hands on the rudder.

Many of us built up a stable of Canon glass in part because of the leadership they showed with FF about 5-10 years ago. And since then... it's like everyone has gone to sleep. It's 2014, and their flagship is a $6800 camera with 18 megapixels? REALLY?

If they don't get their act together soon, I for one will switch to
...Show more

Yeah, even if a new sensor arrives in a 10k brick, at least it means they have a way to make a new type sensor and there is only so long they can keep it out of a 5 series or the like, so it would be good news in the end.




Oct 08, 2014 at 01:51 PM
jcolwell
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p.21 #12 · At Canon, We See Impossible


Hey, Tony. Since when did relevance come into the complaints department?


Oct 08, 2014 at 01:52 PM
mjgphotoz
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p.21 #13 · At Canon, We See Impossible


Imagemaster wrote:
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. The subject of this thread is about a PR announcement from Canon. It had nothing to do with what you are talking about. Did Canon's announcement promise to say anything you are talking about? No. Therefore there was no issue to get excited about.

Your issue or issues had zero to do with the subject of this thread.



I responded to a quip by another poster. You responded to my response, though I don't know why, as it absolutely has no bearing on the thread, right? You then saw fit to respond yet again after I responded to your response. I humbly beg your forgiveness for a horrible breach of forum decorum which replying to another poster obviously is. I most certainly will do all within my limited powers to see it never happens again.

Edited on Oct 08, 2014 at 02:13 PM · View previous versions



Oct 08, 2014 at 02:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.21 #14 · At Canon, We See Impossible





Oct 08, 2014 at 02:13 PM
mjgphotoz
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p.21 #15 · At Canon, We See Impossible





Oct 08, 2014 at 02:15 PM
zlatko
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p.21 #16 · At Canon, We See Impossible


skibum5 wrote:
It's not false.

gimme a break

and i never said every camera is crippled if it doesn't have every feature of the advanced model. I've even specifically mentioned many times over the years the large cost of a super high fps shutter and mirror box mechanism, for instance.

And a guy at a Canon show, a Canon employee himself even said they pulled AMFA from the 60D so they could re-introduce it as a 'new' feature for the future 70D.

It's not very sensible to lock a max min shutter speed to 1/125th or whatnot. If Leica did that, they had some marketing agenda
...Show more

I don't understand why you are still using Canon if they were "too busy" to adjust your 40D — that was years ago. Sounds like a very basic warranty repair. And you still shoot Canon?

Your point about Auto ISO "only" working on the 1DX and 7D2 remains FALSE. It doesn't work the way you want it too, so you claim it doesn't work. But I've used it thousands of times and know that it works every time and it works GREAT. If you're going to bash Canon at every opportunity, at least don't make stuff up.

And speaking of making stuff up, this whole theory of manufacturer's "playing games" is just a way of demonizing people who design things differently than you would design them. Sometimes the presence or lack of a feature has nothing to do with "playing games" but rather with a very sensible design choice, albeit a design choice that doesn't please everyone.

I have various Canons from a 5D3 to an SL1. When I look at the SL1 menus, there are a lot of features "missing" in comparison to the menus on the 5D3 and other bigger, more expensive cameras. But I knew that when I purchased the SL1. Now I could go on a long angry rant about how Canon "marketing" is "playing games" and "crippling" the SL1 — omitting things that allegedly cost ten cents, etc. And I can probably find a Nikon or Sony that delivers some extra features for the same price. Or I can put on a rational hat and realize that the SL1 is not designed for the typical 5D3 user. It's designed for the typical SL1 user. Not *every* SL1 user in the world, but the typical one, at least in Canon's estimation. That typical SL1 user does not want AFMA or a slew of other features, does not want to use them or hear about them, or see them in the menus. That typical SL1 user may look at the already stripped down SL1 menus and already feel that it's wa-a-a-a-y too complicated, with far too many things they need to know just to make a photo. More features can equal more things to go wrong, and more things to deter a potential buyer. That's a consideration that people at Canon may take very seriously, even while the typical 5D3 or 1DX user may not appreciate it.

The point is, you don't actually KNOW what deliberations go into any product design at Canon or any other manufacturer. Even so, you spout off with theories about marketing malevolence and crippling this or that, etc. Clearly, anyone can be critic and engage in this public blame game — it's the easiest thing in the world. It doesn't take any actual knowledge.



Oct 08, 2014 at 04:13 PM
PetKal
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p.21 #17 · At Canon, We See Impossible


mjgphotoz wrote:
I responded to a quip by another poster. You responded to my response, though I don't know why, as it absolutely has no bearing on the thread, right? You then saw fit to respond yet again after I responded to your response. I humbly beg your forgiveness for a horrible breach of forum decorum which replying to another poster obviously is. I most certainly will do all within my limited powers to see it never happens again.


That is funny.

It is almost as funny when I reflect on many FM members who have been very active in this thread, because they appear to be enjoying their retirement while pursuing their passion (hobby) on an almost full time basis. Must be nice when one can (semi) retire from his/her active career in their twenties, thirties of forties.



Oct 08, 2014 at 04:32 PM
Imagemaster
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p.21 #18 · At Canon, We See Impossible


mjgphotoz wrote:
I responded to a quip by another poster. You responded to my response, though I don't know why, as it absolutely has no bearing on the thread, right? You then saw fit to respond yet again after I responded to your response. I humbly beg your forgiveness for a horrible breach of forum decorum which replying to another poster obviously is. I most certainly will do all within my limited powers to see it never happens again.


Ah yes, my humble apologies. You were replying to a quote ..... black autofocus squares against dark subjects in low light, ...... , that had nothing to do with the subject of this thread.




Oct 08, 2014 at 05:17 PM
mjgphotoz
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p.21 #19 · At Canon, We See Impossible


Imagemaster wrote:
Ah yes, my humble apologies. You were replying to a quote , that had nothing to do with the subject of this thread.



Apology accepted! That's what happens when threads reach such lengths in such a short time! It becomes very difficult to follow and easy to overlook posting sequence. Cheers.

mjgphotoz



Oct 08, 2014 at 05:30 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.21 #20 · At Canon, We See Impossible


jctriguy wrote:
I'd suggest switching now...


To try and keep threads on topic, I'll suggest there's a dedicated Canon flouncing thread (sticky even?) where soon to be ex Canon forum FM'rs can vent their spleen to their hearts content and reasons for moving to brand x,y,z. it could be called Heaven's Gate ..




Oct 08, 2014 at 05:52 PM
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