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Archive 2014 · D4S anyone??

  
 
sjms
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p.5 #1 · D4S anyone??


m.sommers00 wrote:
Either I'm not looking hard enough or I don't see them on my monitor. And it's a calibrated NEC".

Are you considering buying a D4s? What do you current have in your inventory?


i concur using the same screen

why would he after the claims of the 1Dx being the one to go for?



Mar 10, 2014 at 10:50 AM
m.sommers00
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p.5 #2 · D4S anyone??


I didn't honestly read much of his posts because like another FMer, it's constantly complaining about how terrible gear is when I see little to no actual pictures! Typically, it appears that it's the loudest from people who ironically will never actually buy or be able to afford top-tier pro gear. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it seems to be evident here on FM and other forums.


Mar 10, 2014 at 10:59 AM
Nikon_14
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p.5 #3 · D4S anyone??


m.sommers00 wrote:
constantly complaining about how terrible gear is when I see little to no actual pictures!



If you're referring to Form, then the first part might be true, but not the latter. He has posted some terrific images on the Weddings forum.

Trouble is, downward pressure on pricing for us wedding shooters makes buying a $6,500 camera body seem about as practical as buying a yacht.



Mar 10, 2014 at 11:27 AM
Elijah
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p.5 #4 · D4S anyone??


Looks like D3s is STILL king of ISO when comparing D3,4,4s. Keeping mine for sure


Mar 10, 2014 at 11:31 AM
form
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p.5 #5 · D4S anyone??


I use a 5d3, 3x 5d2, D800, Canon 24II/35/50/85/135L primes plus 16-35 II and 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Nikon 35 f/1.4g and 60 f/2.8g right now for bodies and lenses.

I have long preferred primes for my work because I like the subject isolation/3d look, and I shoot in dark conditions all the time where I would prefer to gather enough ambient light to produce subjectively balanced exposures of the environment while blending with flash.

Right now, the 35 f/1.4g vs 35L...I may subjectively prefer the 35 f/1.4g's super-closeup bokeh, but the 35L focuses basically instantly and the 35g does not. I have also not liked the focus inconsistency of the 35 f/1.4g, whereas with the 35L I get very, very good consistency.

The 85L produces images I doubt I could achieve with the 85 f/1.4g just by dint of the optical design and the hundreds/thousands of image examples I have seen. In that case, it's not the amount of background blur or light gathering (because both are roughly the same), but instead the rendering of bokeh and the transition areas that I prefer with Canon.

Anytime the focus transition area (especially behind the focal plane) looks basically like an in-focus area (which it should not because it is not in focus) only with nasty longitudinal chromatic aberrations of green and magenta, I don't like that look. The 85L does NOT do that. 50L does to some extent, unsure about 58G. This shows a perfect example of what I'm talking about (85L vs 85G transition area bokeh): http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J_u6e8pmBsk/UZL1cQG_LtI/AAAAAAAAAHw/aEKGGXDgYTM/s1600/85Lvs_85G_near-loca-center.png

I use 35 and 85 more than all other focal lengths combined, so the performance of these two lenses is, in a way, a deal maker or breaker for me on the lens side of my canon/Nikon perspective. Canon wins here overall for 85L aesthetics and 35mm focus speed and consistency. It's subjective and based mostly on my own experience, but those things are important to me.

On the body side, the sensor noise/dynamic range and AF accuracy AND speed are very important to me. Everything else is secondary.

I also don't like Nikon colors (too much green/pink without getting the natural skin tones I want), and I don't really care for 5d3 colors either (they look pre-processed) - I prefer 5d2/5dc/etc. colors.

I often appear to be contrarian because I do not typically go along with public opinion when I scrutinize things. I find details that would matter to ME as a prospective buyer of a camera/system/etc. and pay special attention to them.

When I pick out produce, I don't care too much about size except if it's just too small so that you're not getting enough substance for the surface area (though it's nice to get a bigger/heavier lettuce if they are all the same price), and I DO try to avoid picking out produce (like apples) with soft/bad spots. I take longer than some people to pick produce out. I don't see anything wrong with trying to pick out better stuff - but I am not anal enough to sort through every single apple and only take the very best ones.

Not that my produce selection methods are very relevant to the topic at-hand, but since you brought them up...

The d4s interests me mostly because I know I don't really need 36 mp, but I do want a great, fast-focusing, accurate-focusing, extremely responsive camera with excellent low ISO dynamic range and high ISO noise/dynamic range, and Canon does NOT make such a product (the reason why I still have one Nikon camera: low ISO Dynamic range). Although I do not really have the money to buy a d4s outright, if there is enough incentive in a single camera with all those qualities I want from a camera, then it's enough to make me consider going a bit out of my comfort zone for such an expensive purchase.

The d4s also interests me a bit because I am still a bit angry at Canon for giving their latest AF system a focus-pause-focus delaying approach that has cost me many important shots during wedding receptions (so I end up putting the 5d3 away and donning a pair of 5d2s), I am angry at them for overcharging for the 5d3 ($3500+ was insane from the beginning), I don't really like the 5d3's colors (skin tones look pre-processed and artificial to me compared to the 5d2), and I am still very disappointed with their ISO100-800 shadow noise.



Mar 10, 2014 at 01:00 PM
4mpx
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p.5 #6 · D4S anyone??


Another test to check the accuracy of the AF : still no need to fine-tune the autofocus, even with a 2x TC. Simply EXCEPTIONNAL !!!


D4s, 200-400 VRI+TC-20EIII, @800mm, 14400 ISO, handheld.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13067357493_7d8a38c11b_o.jpg



Mar 10, 2014 at 03:00 PM
form
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p.5 #7 · D4S anyone??


It's great that the autofocus is working well for TCs and telephotos, though ultimately the resolution lends itself better to press and sports photography than to wildlife...but I'm assuming I'm still seeing in-camera JPG processing with no RAW output samples as of yet on this thread. I'd like to see RAW.


Mar 10, 2014 at 03:08 PM
4mpx
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p.5 #8 · D4S anyone??


form wrote:
It's great that the autofocus is working well for TCs and telephotos, though ultimately the resolution lends itself better to press and sports photography than to wildlife...but I'm assuming I'm still seeing in-camera JPG processing with no RAW output samples as of yet on this thread. I'd like to see RAW.


I always shoot RAW since day one and process them in Capture NX2.

For wildlife, this D4s is an excellent complementary body to my D800.



Mar 10, 2014 at 03:55 PM
Nikon_14
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p.5 #9 · D4S anyone??


form wrote
I often appear to be contrarian because I do not typically go along with public opinion when I scrutinize things. I find details that would matter to ME as a prospective buyer of a camera/system/etc. and pay special attention to them.



I suppose I'm with you on that point in looking for gear that suits my way of meeting bride's expectations as opposed to getting the latest technology just because everyone else likes it.

But where we differ is that I'll eventually pick a D700 replacement in a used D3s or new D610 or D800, learn to live with its drawbacks and then just get on with shooting.

Looking forward to seeing your next work, you always bring out some great captures.



Mar 10, 2014 at 04:47 PM
Donzo98
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p.5 #10 · D4S anyone??


Not too impressive... at least by the numbers. I still have my D4... and will hold on to it until more real world info comes in from the shooters.

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Nikon-D4s-sensor-review-Master-of-Darkness/Nikon-D4s-Versus-Nikon-D4



Mar 10, 2014 at 05:49 PM
sjms
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p.5 #11 · D4S anyone??


form wrote:
It's great that the autofocus is working well for TCs and telephotos, though ultimately the resolution lends itself better to press and sports photography than to wildlife...but I'm assuming I'm still seeing in-camera JPG processing with no RAW output samples as of yet on this thread. I'd like to see RAW.


i really have no issues with optics and you are correct that it lends it self to news gathering/sports. i really wouldn't use it as a tool in your realm as i wouldn't use a 1DX either.



Mar 10, 2014 at 07:22 PM
form
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p.5 #12 · D4S anyone??


Actually weddings have extremely high autofocus, high ISO and responsiveness demands. The part that requires very high resolution would be the posed/planned portraits.


Mar 10, 2014 at 07:48 PM
sjms
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p.5 #13 · D4S anyone??


for the most part i find weddings to be pretty much scripted events. they are literally out of a playbook and there can and have been retakes.


Mar 10, 2014 at 10:04 PM
m.sommers00
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p.5 #14 · D4S anyone??


Form, I guess I'm kind of confused. I saw a thread wanting Canon to improve their DR in low iso but you primarily shoot weddings requiring high iso. The 1Dx is an extremely capable camera in the AF and colour tones department while offering a good size resolution with insane fps and buffer. The images I've seen from it have been spectacular to say the least. Likewise I've seen incredible images from the D4 and I presume the D4s will as well.


Mar 10, 2014 at 10:21 PM
form
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p.5 #15 · D4S anyone??


Because weddings involve both outdoors in bright daylight and receptions and outdoors dark nighttime. That's why the ideal wedding camera can excel at both. 1dx doesn't excel at daylight low ISO photos, you end up cutting out a lot of the dynamic range of the scenery or else getting a massive amount of chroma noise (though a little less perhaps than the 5d3) when you boost the shadows.

I do shoot weddings almost exclusively. I'm not enamored with the 5d3's focus system, and the 1dx has the same system except for a smarter AI servo tracking system. The net result for ~$6500 over what I already have would be 2/3 stop better high ISO noise and a little better AI servo...but I would still have the same low ISO issues I already have with Canon products. That leaves my needs/wants only partly satisfied, and a camera that expensive IMO should satisfy ALL the needs/wants. I don't think my demands or expectations are outlandish: Extremely usable ISO25600 and great dynamic range at ISO100-200, with a focus system that doesn't stop and think every time it gets dark. I don't expect ISO51200 and up to be anything more than a gimmick, and I would almost never have any use for those levels of sensitivity (as long as I shoot primes).



Mar 10, 2014 at 10:55 PM
Nikon_14
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p.5 #16 · D4S anyone??


sjms wrote:
for the most part i find weddings to be pretty much scripted events. they are literally out of a playbook and there can and have been retakes.



Just curious... how many brides have paid you to cover their wedding?



Mar 11, 2014 at 04:32 PM
sjms
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p.5 #17 · D4S anyone??


i did 3 weddings in my life and attended way too many more. i covered these from AM to PM. i enjoyed doing them and the brides did not pay, the parents did. i admit that i lack the proper disposition for said business.
and they were more then satisfied with the results. the original led to the other 2 and after that the vow of abstinence. this was back in the film days. the work i have done after that was unrelated and was more to my persona and abilities and were extensions of said weddings at the time.
2 in the US of Chinese tradition and 1 was in Japan both traditional and modern combination. i actually enjoyed doing them due to the cultures and their specific expectations and my views and style that made it "interesting".

there was a substantial amount of preplanning and discussion on coverage. what, where, when and how.

there was almost a 4th causing me to break my vow via a diabolical form of coercion. i got lucky there as that one never made it the alter.



Mar 11, 2014 at 05:28 PM
D. Diggler
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p.5 #18 · D4S anyone??


Iluxa007 wrote:
Looks like D3s is STILL king of ISO when comparing D3,4,4s. Keeping mine for sure


Have you seen these comparison shots?

D3 vs D4 vs D4S



Mar 12, 2014 at 01:39 AM
D. Diggler
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p.5 #19 · D4S anyone??


Nikon_14 wrote:
downward pressure on pricing for us wedding shooters makes buying a $6,500 camera body seem about as practical as buying a yacht


Sad but true.



Mar 12, 2014 at 01:42 AM
form
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p.5 #20 · D4S anyone??


I saw those, but I'd still like to have a comparison vs. 1dx, which is the true competition for the D4s.


Mar 12, 2014 at 03:01 AM
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