Yes, I didn't see any problems with my Leica 180/2, but then it is also quite a bit shorter. Some of the Nikkor collars have a bad rep, but I am not sure that the 300/4 is one of those.
No one has tested handheld with Canon IS lens?
I am trying to get sharp pictures with A7R and Canon 70-200/4 IS.
So far no luck.
It seems the IS is disturbed by the shutter vibrations.
With NEX7 electronic shutter there is no problem.
Castor42 wrote:
No one has tested handheld with Canon IS lens?
I am trying to get sharp pictures with A7R and Canon 70-200/4 IS.
So far no luck.
It seems the IS is disturbed by the shutter vibrations.
With NEX7 electronic shutter there is no problem.
Here is the same lens/adapter with NEX7 and A7R.
Hey Castor, I saw your thread on dpreview as well. So far I've tried the A7R with a Canon 35mm f/2 IS and it worked well. I plan to try it with a 70-200 f/2.8 IS today. What full range of shutter speeds do you see the issue with? I noticed your sample photos were around 1/50.
Well, I repeated my experiment with quite a bit more rigorousness, and it seems that the problem is smaller than I originally saw. Only at the very longest focal length (420mm = 300mm + 1.4TCII) did I see a very small amount of detail loss. I shot over 500 shots with various combinations of lenses and my TC (this time I added my 70-200/2.8 VRII @ 200mm), and only the 300+1.4 without electronic first curtain saw any shake at all, and only minimally.
On a lighter tripod, with a less stable head, etc., all bets are off, but for a solid setup the camera is good until around 400mm at least.
carstenw wrote:
Well, I repeated my experiment with quite a bit more rigorousness, and it seems that the problem is smaller than I originally saw. Only at the very longest focal length (420mm = 300mm + 1.4TCII) did I see a very small amount of detail loss. I shot over 500 shots with various combinations of lenses and my TC (this time I added my 70-200/2.8 VRII @ 200mm), and only the 300+1.4 without electronic first curtain saw any shake at all, and only minimally.
On a lighter tripod, with a less stable head, etc., all bets are off, but for a solid setup the camera is good until around 400mm at least....Show more →
This is similar to what I've found.
Did you do any shots one second or longer to see how the shutter caused the camera-setup blur the image?
My reason for asking, the A7R shutter slap is definitely somewhat mitigated at lower speeds of 1 second or more due to the time interval from opening to shutting.
Cheers
Not this time, no. I was shooting 1/4s - 1/60s, and only saw the shake around 1/15s and up. Below that it was fine, so I didn't feel the need to go lower.
I think with good technique, this camera is probably as good as any other. I was strictly hands-off, no beanbag, none of that, and my Nikkor 300/4 doesn't have a custom plate, but a little square Arca Swiss-style RRS jobbie, so if I were to fix that, it might even be clean.
Btw, I didn't see a difference between Shutter and 2s on the remote, but I did see a difference between Shutter and releasing by hand, FWIW.
carstenw wrote:
Not this time, no. I was shooting 1/4s - 1/60s, and only saw the shake around 1/15s and up. Below that it was fine, so I didn't feel the need to go lower.
I think with good technique, this camera is probably as good as any other. I was strictly hands-off, no beanbag, none of that, and my Nikkor 300/4 doesn't have a custom plate, but a little square Arc Swiss-style RRS jobbie, so if I were to fix that, it might even be clean.
Btw, I didn't see a difference between Shutter and 2s on the remote, but I did see a difference between Shutter and releasing by hand, FWIW....Show more →
As you have said earlier, a strong stable platform, some extra weight and proper technique will go a long way to solve this issue.
Of interest, when using the same setup with a DSLR (D3x) the blurring due to shutter slap was not visible, of course images were taken with the "mirror up", hence time was rarely an issue. However, I always thought the combination of the 70-200 and 2 times multiplier did not have enough resolving power even for 24 MPs. Now after running the tests I realize what I thought was lack of acuity may well have been due to some shutter vibration.
Once the weather improves here I'll do some more shooting at structures a couple of kilometers away and hopefully I'll get a surprise
Cheers
Castor42 wrote:
No one has tested handheld with Canon IS lens?
I am trying to get sharp pictures with A7R and Canon 70-200/4 IS.
So far no luck.
It seems the IS is disturbed by the shutter vibrations.
With NEX7 electronic shutter there is no problem.
Here's a test I just did on my A7R + 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II. These are 100% crops from a subject distance of 5'5", hand-held but with my elbows resting on top of a table.
My 70-200mm results looked good. Just tried it with my 35mm f/2 IS, a lens I purchased specifically to use with the A7R and unfortunately there definitely is a problem using IS at certain shutter speeds. For my 35mm the affected shutter speeds are from 1/40 through 1/200. Below 1/40 it's hard to distinguish between the IS problem and hand-holding blur so the problem may extend a little below 1/40 as well.
Your 70-200 seems to be good, but there is not so many fine details to be seen.
I tried a test chart with my 70-200/4 IS with my elbows on the table this time.
Castor42 wrote:
Your 70-200 seems to be good, but there is not so many fine details to be seen.
I tried a test chart with my 70-200/4 IS with my elbows on the table this time.
I agree, I should have used the smaller text for the 70-200 like I did for my 35mm f/2 IS. The 35mm definitely shows the problem I sent Andrea at sonyalpharumors.com a link to your dpreview thread. I'm hoping he posts a blog entry to bring attention to the issue, esp. to Sony's attention. An anti-shock delay akin to what the O-MD has would likely resolve the issue.
I actually posted a similar issue on a different web site. I am seeing the same thing. I was testing my Nikkor 200mm macro lens -- mounted the lens to an arca cube… close up shot and anything 1/100-1/20sec had signs of motion blur. At 1/200 no problem. I did the same test with the D800 and at least half of the shots at very slow shutter speeds were tack on…
To clarify-- I altered the shutter speed by altering the intensity of the light in one set of shots and in the other i adjusted the iso setting. The aperture was left constant
Herb1911 wrote:
The shutter of the Sony A7r is not only rather noisy but it is also a source of vibration.
It will probably go unnoticed most of the time but when used with adapted tele lenses and the use of a tripod collar
one is likely to see it in the exposure range of 1/125 to 1/2s.
I posted some examples here:
You guys are seeing what I am seeing. I’ve had an unusually low percentage of sharp images from the tests and snapshots I’ve taken over the past couple of days. I looked and virtually all of the slower handheld images are blurred, as are many others with shutter speeds like 1/60, 1/80, 1/100, 1/125, and even 1/200th. This blur issue also was endemic in the tripod lens comparison shots I took a couple of days ago. I used the 10 second delay self timer with the A7R and on the D800E (locking the mirror up only at the end - I didn’t bother with the electronic cable release). The magnified image in the viewfinder showed very fine detail with the Summicron 180 at f2.0, but only a few of the image files had this same detail because of camera blur. I had it locked down tight on the Wimberly II head I use with the D800E and 600 f4.0 lens.
I quickly learned how sensitive 36MP is to any slight mis-focus or image blur with the D800E - especially with long lenses. The high MP count is a factor here, but I believe the culprit is the shutter in the A7R. A 60th or and 100th of a second sounds like a longer duration. I will make some comparisons with the A7R, D800E, and Sigma DP2M (which has a virtually silent leaf shutter that imparts no vibration - despite the vast detail this sensor records, even slow shutter speeds (hand held) images are sharp. I’ve also successfully used the D800E quite a lot as slower shutter speeds (again hand held). A blurred image from it is the exception. So far it appears to occur too frequently with the A7R. Sometimes the blur may seem subtle - there was one image posted at 100 percent where the user claimed it was tack sharp. But it wasn’t. Lloyd Chambers raised the issue here, http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/ALLVIEW/SonyFullFrame/A7R-ergonomics-shutter.html
I’m going to shoot more images today with the A7R and the D800E and one of the small Sigma Foveon cameras. I’m actually more interested in hand held images at slower shutter speeds, because that is primarily how I intend to use the camera, at least in the dark winter months. It will be interesting to see what other experience and share here.
Thanks Bill, looking forward to your comparisons. Might I suggest you use a 2-second timer delay for your hand-held shots, to eliminate camera motion via the shutter button for your hand-held results?
Hi all. i went back and did some more testing… One thing i found is that using the metabones foot to mount the camera instead of the lens foot made a huge difference. I am surprised since the lens foot seemed more sturdy. I guess this is not going to be possible with a very large lens 400/2.8 etc etc..
To be very specific… i can still see some difference between lets say the 1/160 and 1/30 --- but much more subtle. Perhaps if i scrutinize my D800 shots or do the test again with the D800 i might see some subtle differences as well. The Nikkor 200mm is quite a heavy lens
Some of your differences might be due to the sensor differences-- I think handholding to maximize 36 megapixel resolution is going to be a bit different and 1/40 is getting close to the limit. Castor42 wrote:
Your 70-200 seems to be good, but there is not so many fine details to be seen.
I tried a test chart with my 70-200/4 IS with my elbows on the table this time.
mark1958 wrote:
Hi all. i went back and did some more testing… One thing i found is that using the metabones foot to mount the camera instead of the lens foot made a huge difference. I am surprised since the lens foot seemed more sturdy. I guess this is not going to be possible with a very large lens 400/2.8 etc etc..
Hi Mark,
I know from what others have indicated on line and also from Really Right Stuff (RRS) has indicated that Nikon lens mounts and collars can suffer from vibration issues; they are generally supposed to not be as good as those for the Leica lenses. I am not sure if that is the case for I presume you were checking using your Nikon 200mm Macro Lens. Below is a link to RRS plate presuming it is your lens:
RRS stuff has a lot of plates, rails, collars specific to different Nikon lenses that may help to solve or lessen some of the vibration issues that you may experience:
Rich
Thanks so much for that link. I have a generic rail I was using. Perhaps I need to invest in one of those rails.. I think for macro work anything that can dampen the vibration regardless of camera used
mark1958 wrote:
Hi all. i went back and did some more testing… One thing i found is that using the metabones foot to mount the camera instead of the lens foot made a huge difference. I am surprised since the lens foot seemed more sturdy. I guess this is not going to be possible with a very large lens 400/2.8 etc etc..
To be very specific… i can still see some difference between lets say the 1/160 and 1/30 --- but much more subtle. Perhaps if i scrutinize my D800 shots or do the test again with the D800 i might see some subtle differences as well. The Nikkor 200mm is quite a heavy lens...Show more →
Exactly. You might want to do at least 3 runs for each of the cam, A7R and D800, to get a good idea of the problem. It's best to do indoor shooting out. I think in the end, the result might not be that much of a difference.
I sent Andrea at sonyalpharumors.com a link to your dpreview thread. I'm hoping he posts a blog entry to bring attention to the issue, esp. to Sony's attention. An anti-shock delay akin to what the O-MD has would likely resolve the issue.