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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.8 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
mawz wrote:
As to A mount adaptation:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
AI as well. One problem worth noting, if you have an AI/S that's had a CPU added or are trying to adapt one of the P-lenses, the CPU will have to be removed.
As to A mount adaptation:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
AI as well. One problem worth noting, if you have an AI/S that's had a CPU added or are trying to adapt one of the P-lenses, the CPU will have to be removed.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:41 PM
p.8 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I do have small, girly Asian hands. 
But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.
freaklikeme wrote:
Wouldn't be the first time I was an ergonomic outlier, but I have to ask, are most of the people you know eleven years old? I ask because my neighbor's eleven year-old son has the perfect size hands for the GXR.
I can see why someone would prefer the click stop wheels on electronic controls, but it doesn't bother me, and I actually find it advantageous in scenarios where I'm moving in and out of doors frequently or shooting a room with a well-lit side and a cave-like side.
I've heard that Nikon has an exclusivity deal on the 36mp...Show more →
But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.freaklikeme wrote:
Wouldn't be the first time I was an ergonomic outlier, but I have to ask, are most of the people you know eleven years old? I ask because my neighbor's eleven year-old son has the perfect size hands for the GXR.
I can see why someone would prefer the click stop wheels on electronic controls, but it doesn't bother me, and I actually find it advantageous in scenarios where I'm moving in and out of doors frequently or shooting a room with a well-lit side and a cave-like side.I've heard that Nikon has an exclusivity deal on the 36mp...Show more →
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:47 PM
p.8 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sflxn wrote:
I think I can speak for the Canon and Nikon FF users when I say $3k is not too much to ask for. It would certainly be better for it to come in at below $3k, but miniaturization costs money. Smaller circuit boards, better design for heat dissipation, tighter mechanical tolerances, etc.
A mirrorless camera also has far fewer parts and components than a DSLR, so the profit margin is higher. Probably not as significant at this price level as it is in a D3200 vs. basic mirrorless profit margin comparison, but it's still there.
I'm also inclined to lean more toward the $3000 mark, assuming that it uses the D800's sensor (or an improved version - bragging rights about "worlds best full frame sensor" would be helpful to Sony, even if the hype were short lived). Were that they case Sony would be stupid not to include some great (and likely Zeiss) lenses. Were such a thing released, I think it would sell decently. It certainly would get a lot of attention.
Really, I think there are three groups who are anxious for this FF NEX. Those of us already used to FF Canon and Nikon DSLR and want a low sacrifice camera and willing to pay for it. Low sacrifice doesn't mean it is a perfect replacement for a pro DSLR. The second is looking for a basic FF NEX without all the bells and whistles for a lower price. Sony can make both, but they will likely make one version first. I said three groups. The third group is the group who unrealistically want 70-200/2.8 VR and 14-24/2.8 on a...Show more →
If I were them, I'd put out the big "wow" D800 competitor version first and then follow (after a few months to a year) with the D600/6D competitor. This is the way to make an attention getting splash, soak up the initial money, and then get the people who are on the fence.
All that being said, I think the market for this thing is small. The D800/5D MkIII get a good amount of pro sales. I would never put a job at risk with a mirrorless system* due to the ergonomics. Many pros also need continuous AF, a perennial problem point in most mirrorless systems which is even I'm told inferior in non-Canikon DSLRs. This is to say nothing about the cost of new lenses or the availability of NEX FF "pro" lenses. It is theoretically possible for a Sony or Sony/Olympus 14-24, 24-80 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 to be released with this camera (which would be a bold and telling move for Sony). But such things have only come out slowly for Micro 4/3, and I doubt Sony will jump right into these kinds of lenses. More likely are decent zooms and expensive Zeiss primes - which I think will work better, since I see the buyers of a FF NEX to be the Zeiss prime lens buyer vice photojournalists.
But, we'll see..........
* Ever since I bought an Olympus EM-5, I've used mirrorless for everything save wildlife photography. I also know of one pro who's used the EM-5 on paid event and wedding jobs with great results and, while the size is welcome, I just find the controls too difficult to quickly work with compared to a 7D/D300 or higher Canikon body. Maybe for an event, but never for a wedding. IMO
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 09:07 PM · View previous versions
I think I can speak for the Canon and Nikon FF users when I say $3k is not too much to ask for. It would certainly be better for it to come in at below $3k, but miniaturization costs money. Smaller circuit boards, better design for heat dissipation, tighter mechanical tolerances, etc.
A mirrorless camera also has far fewer parts and components than a DSLR, so the profit margin is higher. Probably not as significant at this price level as it is in a D3200 vs. basic mirrorless profit margin comparison, but it's still there.
I'm also inclined to lean more toward the $3000 mark, assuming that it uses the D800's sensor (or an improved version - bragging rights about "worlds best full frame sensor" would be helpful to Sony, even if the hype were short lived). Were that they case Sony would be stupid not to include some great (and likely Zeiss) lenses. Were such a thing released, I think it would sell decently. It certainly would get a lot of attention.
Really, I think there are three groups who are anxious for this FF NEX. Those of us already used to FF Canon and Nikon DSLR and want a low sacrifice camera and willing to pay for it. Low sacrifice doesn't mean it is a perfect replacement for a pro DSLR. The second is looking for a basic FF NEX without all the bells and whistles for a lower price. Sony can make both, but they will likely make one version first. I said three groups. The third group is the group who unrealistically want 70-200/2.8 VR and 14-24/2.8 on a...Show more →
If I were them, I'd put out the big "wow" D800 competitor version first and then follow (after a few months to a year) with the D600/6D competitor. This is the way to make an attention getting splash, soak up the initial money, and then get the people who are on the fence.
All that being said, I think the market for this thing is small. The D800/5D MkIII get a good amount of pro sales. I would never put a job at risk with a mirrorless system* due to the ergonomics. Many pros also need continuous AF, a perennial problem point in most mirrorless systems which is even I'm told inferior in non-Canikon DSLRs. This is to say nothing about the cost of new lenses or the availability of NEX FF "pro" lenses. It is theoretically possible for a Sony or Sony/Olympus 14-24, 24-80 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 to be released with this camera (which would be a bold and telling move for Sony). But such things have only come out slowly for Micro 4/3, and I doubt Sony will jump right into these kinds of lenses. More likely are decent zooms and expensive Zeiss primes - which I think will work better, since I see the buyers of a FF NEX to be the Zeiss prime lens buyer vice photojournalists.
But, we'll see..........
* Ever since I bought an Olympus EM-5, I've used mirrorless for everything save wildlife photography. I also know of one pro who's used the EM-5 on paid event and wedding jobs with great results and, while the size is welcome, I just find the controls too difficult to quickly work with compared to a 7D/D300 or higher Canikon body. Maybe for an event, but never for a wedding. IMO
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 09:07 PM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 09:03 PM
p.8 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
mawz wrote:
Frankly in your specific case I think the best solution would be to explore a custom mount conversion to R mount for the A99 rather than converting lenses. It should be doable given the register difference and it would solve both your issues.
I've contacted sigmacumlaude about this possibility and he's very interested in it too, as long as someone else can supply the 'prototype' body. Any volunteers?
Frankly in your specific case I think the best solution would be to explore a custom mount conversion to R mount for the A99 rather than converting lenses. It should be doable given the register difference and it would solve both your issues.
I've contacted sigmacumlaude about this possibility and he's very interested in it too, as long as someone else can supply the 'prototype' body. Any volunteers?
Jul 09, 2013 at 09:06 PM
p.8 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
telyt wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it..
I'm curios, what specific focal lengths do you use?
Graham
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?I'm curios, what specific focal lengths do you use?
Graham
Jul 09, 2013 at 09:25 PM
p.8 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
grahamb3 wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it..I'm curios, what specific focal lengths do you use?
Graham
I use the Leica 280mm f/4 APO with Leica extenders.
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?Graham
I use the Leica 280mm f/4 APO with Leica extenders.
Jul 09, 2013 at 09:33 PM
p.8 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
douglasf13 wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.Yeah, I know Telyt. I was asking uscmatt99, because it didn't sound like he had a ton of lenses like you do, so a mount change may not be a big deal for him.
Hey Douglas, you can just call me Matt
I have a ZF 100/2, ZF.2 35/1.4, and the 20/3.5, 40/2, and 90/3.5 CV SL-II lenses. So 4/5 are chipped and it's nice to be able to use Nikon's metering system, get EXIF, etc. I have some less used AI and AI-S lenses as well. I don't see myself getting out of the Nikon system for awhile, as I've got little kids and do use AF zoom lenses from time to time, as well as the flash system. So there are a variety of reasons (in addition to my inexperience with taking apart and reassembling perfectly functional lenses) that I'll stick with what I've got, and hope for a camera that lets me use the lenses as is.
An FF-NEX that could accommodate my whole range of SLR and rangefinder glass would be most welcome, at any size really. Otherwise, I'll be in paralysis by analysis mode if it only works well with SLR glass. Thanks for the suggestion though, the A99 otherwise looks like a nice option.
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?Hey Douglas, you can just call me Matt
I have a ZF 100/2, ZF.2 35/1.4, and the 20/3.5, 40/2, and 90/3.5 CV SL-II lenses. So 4/5 are chipped and it's nice to be able to use Nikon's metering system, get EXIF, etc. I have some less used AI and AI-S lenses as well. I don't see myself getting out of the Nikon system for awhile, as I've got little kids and do use AF zoom lenses from time to time, as well as the flash system. So there are a variety of reasons (in addition to my inexperience with taking apart and reassembling perfectly functional lenses) that I'll stick with what I've got, and hope for a camera that lets me use the lenses as is.
An FF-NEX that could accommodate my whole range of SLR and rangefinder glass would be most welcome, at any size really. Otherwise, I'll be in paralysis by analysis mode if it only works well with SLR glass. Thanks for the suggestion though, the A99 otherwise looks like a nice option.
Jul 09, 2013 at 09:58 PM
p.8 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
aleksanderpolo wrote:
I do have small, girly Asian hands. But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.
what lens are you using? with my adapted slr and rangefinder lenses, some of which are quite large, i've never felt pinched. people do seem to have different grips though, and i have medium sized hands with long slender fingers.
I do have small, girly Asian hands.
But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.what lens are you using? with my adapted slr and rangefinder lenses, some of which are quite large, i've never felt pinched. people do seem to have different grips though, and i have medium sized hands with long slender fingers.
Jul 09, 2013 at 10:08 PM
p.8 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
It's the 50/1.8. I suspect that because my hand is too small, I wrap my whole finger around the grip to make it secure and so the fingertip is right at the narrowest base between the grip and the lens. I cannot hold it securely any other way.
Which makes me think it might be why the mirrorless camera are more popular in Japan than in US. But that's OT.
sebboh wrote:
But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.what lens are you using? with my adapted slr and rangefinder lenses, some of which are quite large, i've never felt pinched. people do seem to have different grips though, and i have medium sized hands with long slender fingers.
Which makes me think it might be why the mirrorless camera are more popular in Japan than in US. But that's OT.
sebboh wrote:
aleksanderpolo wrote
I do have small, girly Asian hands. But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.Jul 09, 2013 at 10:15 PM
p.8 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
aleksanderpolo wrote:
I do have small, girly Asian hands. But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.
I don't. I have large hands with thick fingers, too, so none of the mirrorless wonders are a perfect fit, but the 7 is as close as I've come.
I do have small, girly Asian hands.
But you don't feel pinched between the grip and the lens on the NEX? Must be how I was holding it.I don't. I have large hands with thick fingers, too, so none of the mirrorless wonders are a perfect fit, but the 7 is as close as I've come.
Jul 09, 2013 at 10:44 PM
p.8 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
FWIW, my favorite of all NEX grips is the NEX-5/5N/5R with a Ciesta half case attached. I think we're all likely to have different answers to such a question.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:20 PM
p.8 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Hmm this is interesting...
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus-sony-partnership-more-advanced-then-we-could-think-of-new-sensor-tech-in-2015/
All the best tech from Olympus like the 5 axis stabilization, JPEG engine, lens knowledge are already being implemented in the soon to be announced Sony A and E-mount cameras. We will see them in use on Sony cameras by end 2013 already!
Very interesting....
Olympus will receive some literally “Amazing” sensors from Sony. 2014 sensor will be improved tech based on today’s sensor tech (with on sensor PDAF for example). From 2015 on completely new kind of sensors will be used that will be more advanced than the sensor tech show recently by the Panasonic-Fuji duo.
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus-sony-partnership-more-advanced-then-we-could-think-of-new-sensor-tech-in-2015/
All the best tech from Olympus like the 5 axis stabilization, JPEG engine, lens knowledge are already being implemented in the soon to be announced Sony A and E-mount cameras. We will see them in use on Sony cameras by end 2013 already!
Very interesting....
Olympus will receive some literally “Amazing” sensors from Sony. 2014 sensor will be improved tech based on today’s sensor tech (with on sensor PDAF for example). From 2015 on completely new kind of sensors will be used that will be more advanced than the sensor tech show recently by the Panasonic-Fuji duo.
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:18 AM
p.8 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
LightShow wrote:
Hmm this is interesting...
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus-sony-partnership-more-advanced-then-we-could-think-of-new-sensor-tech-in-2015/
Very interesting....
I hope all of this is true. That kind of technology sharing could work out very well for them both.
Of course, it could also be step one of Sony gobbling up Oly Photo.
Hmm this is interesting...
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus-sony-partnership-more-advanced-then-we-could-think-of-new-sensor-tech-in-2015/
Earlier quote
All the best tech from Olympus like the 5 axis stabilization, JPEG engine, lens knowledge are already being implemented in the soon to be announced Sony A and E-mount cameras. We will see them in use on Sony cameras by end 2013 already!Earlier quote
Olympus will receive some literally “Amazing” sensors from Sony. 2014 sensor will be improved tech based on today’s sensor tech (with on sensor PDAF for example). From 2015 on completely new kind of sensors will be used that will be more advanced than the sensor tech show recently by the Panasonic-Fuji duo.I hope all of this is true. That kind of technology sharing could work out very well for them both.
Of course, it could also be step one of Sony gobbling up Oly Photo.
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:29 AM
p.8 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
mawz wrote:
Frankly in your specific case I think the best solution would be to explore a custom mount conversion to R mount for the A99 rather than converting lenses. It should be doable given the register difference and it would solve both your issues. And likely shouldn't cost more than the price difference between an A99 and the likely cost of a NEX-9 (ie about $1K)
I wonder if Jim Buchanan would be interested in such a project?
There are others including myself that are in the same boat as Doug. I have 16 Leica R lenses including the 280 f4 Apo Telyt and both the 1.4X and 2X Apo Extenders in addition to the 16 lenses. I want to also have the option of using the R lenses on my Leica R film cameras.
Rich
telyt wrote
I don't have a ton of lenses but two (of five) cannot be adapted to Alpha and adapting the 280 APO to Alpha means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x extenders. The Sony Alpha extenders aren't nearly as good.I wonder if Jim Buchanan would be interested in such a project?
There are others including myself that are in the same boat as Doug. I have 16 Leica R lenses including the 280 f4 Apo Telyt and both the 1.4X and 2X Apo Extenders in addition to the 16 lenses. I want to also have the option of using the R lenses on my Leica R film cameras.
Rich
Jul 10, 2013 at 04:41 AM
p.8 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
freaklikeme wrote:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.AI as well. One problem worth noting, if you have an AI/S that's had a CPU added or are trying to adapt one of the P-lenses, the CPU will have to be removed.
Most AI lenses are not adaptable using the Leitax kits, only a very few late AI lenses that have the new AI-S style mounts.
mawz wrote
As to A mount adaptation:F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
Most AI lenses are not adaptable using the Leitax kits, only a very few late AI lenses that have the new AI-S style mounts.
Jul 10, 2013 at 07:06 AM
p.8 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
mawz wrote:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.AI as well. One problem worth noting, if you have an AI/S that's had a CPU added or are trying to adapt one of the P-lenses, the CPU will have to be removed.Most AI lenses are not adaptable using the Leitax kits, only a very few late AI lenses that have the new AI-S style mounts.
I've done the 300/4.5, 300/2.8, and 135/2, none of which were late in their production runs, without issue. The non-AIs that have been converted to AI won't work, but I've yet to have a problem with AI.
freaklikeme wrote
mawz wrote
As to A mount adaptation:F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
I've done the 300/4.5, 300/2.8, and 135/2, none of which were late in their production runs, without issue. The non-AIs that have been converted to AI won't work, but I've yet to have a problem with AI.
Jul 10, 2013 at 08:47 AM
p.8 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I just ran into this interview with Mark Weir again from last fall, and it has some good info about FF and future Sony cameras: Link
Jul 10, 2013 at 09:49 AM
p.8 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
If Im correct, Leica R converters can be converted to Nikon F. No reason why it shouldnt be possible for Sony. Just ask "worldinlens".
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:43 PM
p.8 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Mescalamba wrote:
If Im correct, Leica R converters can be converted to Nikon F. No reason why it shouldnt be possible for Sony. Just ask "worldinlens".
The problem is to switch the lenses back and forth between Leica film cameras and Nikon or Sony Alpha Cameras. At least with Sony NEX, Fuji X, and Canon EOS cameras lens adapters can be used.
Rich
If Im correct, Leica R converters can be converted to Nikon F. No reason why it shouldnt be possible for Sony. Just ask "worldinlens".
The problem is to switch the lenses back and forth between Leica film cameras and Nikon or Sony Alpha Cameras. At least with Sony NEX, Fuji X, and Canon EOS cameras lens adapters can be used.
Rich
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM
p.8 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
It would be funny if this was just an attempt by SAR to pump traffic for a little bit.
Jul 10, 2013 at 12:56 PM