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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.7 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
wfrank wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...I fail to see what's "better" with 36 or more MP. With 20-25 the blur is detailed enough and as for sharpness any good lens would allow a facade size print.
More megapixels would actually start causing the removal of AA filters to make sense. If I remember correctly, somewhere around 100mp is where diffraction would start causing diminishing returns, even at the widest apertures, so we may not need more than that with current lens technology, but, if the camera's throughput speed was fast enough to keep up, I'd consider buying a 100mp camera tomorrow. It would be fantastic even for down sampled images, as theSuede has illustrated.
freaklikeme wrote
...It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...
More megapixels would actually start causing the removal of AA filters to make sense. If I remember correctly, somewhere around 100mp is where diffraction would start causing diminishing returns, even at the widest apertures, so we may not need more than that with current lens technology, but, if the camera's throughput speed was fast enough to keep up, I'd consider buying a 100mp camera tomorrow. It would be fantastic even for down sampled images, as theSuede has illustrated.
Jul 09, 2013 at 04:44 PM
p.7 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
TMaG82 wrote:
I have a feeling that the body will cost around $3,000-$3,500 and lenses will be $500-1,500. I just have this feeling that after so much anticipation and the high standards that were set but the RX1, this has letdown written all over it. I'm sure it'll be a fine system but our expectations are sky high after what we saw the RX1 do. Even a small hunt of noise at ISO12,800 will have the naysayers screaming 'See its overpriced!'.
The expectations are going to be tilt screen, gorgeous EVF, IBIS, GPS, wifi, great battery life, no issues with WA lens, no...Show more →
I think I can speak for the Canon and Nikon FF users when I say $3k is not too much to ask for. It would certainly be better for it to come in at below $3k, but miniaturization costs money. Smaller circuit boards, better design for heat dissipation, tighter mechanical tolerances, etc.
Really, I think there are three groups who are anxious for this FF NEX. Those of us already used to FF Canon and Nikon DSLR and want a low sacrifice camera and willing to pay for it. Low sacrifice doesn't mean it is a perfect replacement for a pro DSLR. The second is looking for a basic FF NEX without all the bells and whistles for a lower price. Sony can make both, but they will likely make one version first. I said three groups. The third group is the group who unrealistically want 70-200/2.8 VR and 14-24/2.8 on a FF mirrorless. I have a feeling this group will be greatly disappointed. FF NEX is not meant to or capable of replacing a robust, professional grade DSLR.
Whatever Sony releases, there will no doubt be disappointed fans. Personally, I think it's far easier to create a low compromise camera first and then come out with a budget model in the next 2 years. I think the market for a higher end FF NEX is larger than the market for a budget model, simply because it draws from the pool of existing Canon FF, Nikon FF, Leica FF, and RX1 user base. The budget market is much harder. How low is low enough? From what I read, the D600 and 6D are not meeting sales expectation. There clearly is a gulf in price points, and $2k is not low enough to draw in upgraders from APS-C. A budget FF NEX or any FF DSLR would need to break some magic barrier under $2k for sales to APS-C upgraders to be great. That won't happen in 2013.
I have a feeling that the body will cost around $3,000-$3,500 and lenses will be $500-1,500. I just have this feeling that after so much anticipation and the high standards that were set but the RX1, this has letdown written all over it. I'm sure it'll be a fine system but our expectations are sky high after what we saw the RX1 do. Even a small hunt of noise at ISO12,800 will have the naysayers screaming 'See its overpriced!'.
The expectations are going to be tilt screen, gorgeous EVF, IBIS, GPS, wifi, great battery life, no issues with WA lens, no...Show more →
I think I can speak for the Canon and Nikon FF users when I say $3k is not too much to ask for. It would certainly be better for it to come in at below $3k, but miniaturization costs money. Smaller circuit boards, better design for heat dissipation, tighter mechanical tolerances, etc.
Really, I think there are three groups who are anxious for this FF NEX. Those of us already used to FF Canon and Nikon DSLR and want a low sacrifice camera and willing to pay for it. Low sacrifice doesn't mean it is a perfect replacement for a pro DSLR. The second is looking for a basic FF NEX without all the bells and whistles for a lower price. Sony can make both, but they will likely make one version first. I said three groups. The third group is the group who unrealistically want 70-200/2.8 VR and 14-24/2.8 on a FF mirrorless. I have a feeling this group will be greatly disappointed. FF NEX is not meant to or capable of replacing a robust, professional grade DSLR.
Whatever Sony releases, there will no doubt be disappointed fans. Personally, I think it's far easier to create a low compromise camera first and then come out with a budget model in the next 2 years. I think the market for a higher end FF NEX is larger than the market for a budget model, simply because it draws from the pool of existing Canon FF, Nikon FF, Leica FF, and RX1 user base. The budget market is much harder. How low is low enough? From what I read, the D600 and 6D are not meeting sales expectation. There clearly is a gulf in price points, and $2k is not low enough to draw in upgraders from APS-C. A budget FF NEX or any FF DSLR would need to break some magic barrier under $2k for sales to APS-C upgraders to be great. That won't happen in 2013.
Jul 09, 2013 at 04:45 PM
p.7 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
aleksanderpolo wrote:
IMHO, you are probably an outlier in terms of ergonomic preference, sorry to say
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
For me, the lack of a tilting LCD on the GXR is a much more significant ergonomic problem than anything on the NEX.
IMHO, you are probably an outlier in terms of ergonomic preference, sorry to say
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
For me, the lack of a tilting LCD on the GXR is a much more significant ergonomic problem than anything on the NEX.
Jul 09, 2013 at 04:56 PM
p.7 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Half cases kinda helps with NEX.. just sayin.
Jul 09, 2013 at 05:25 PM
p.7 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Mescalamba wrote:
Half cases kinda helps with NEX.. just sayin.
everybody seems different in this regard. i really like the NEX-5, 6, and 7 grips and the dials on the 7. i tried a NEX-5 with the half case and found it much less comfortable than a bare NEX-5. the menus on the NEX don't bother me because i never use them when i'm shooting.
Half cases kinda helps with NEX.. just sayin.
everybody seems different in this regard. i really like the NEX-5, 6, and 7 grips and the dials on the 7. i tried a NEX-5 with the half case and found it much less comfortable than a bare NEX-5. the menus on the NEX don't bother me because i never use them when i'm shooting.
Jul 09, 2013 at 05:29 PM
p.7 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
This will be a great development if it comes to fruition as we all hope it will. I'm not sure yet on my size preference. If it will work well with RF glass, I hope it's compact. If it's not going to perform well with RF glass, I hope it's larger, like a taller version of the NEX-7, to more easily get three fingers on the grip. I figure that if I need to be using SLR glass or the new mount's lenses, I'd rather have a nice fat grip without necessitating an add-on. For example, I can't wait to use my ZF glass on a mirrorless live-view FX body, but I hate how it balances on a NEX camera.
Regarding the EVF built-in vs. detachable, I remember in the GXR thread fantasizing about a body with an integrated hinged EVF that sat flush at the corner of the body, but could be tilted up like the detachable one. I'd easily be willing to forego a built-in flash to accomodate an EVF like this. You could also use a hot-shoe flash and EVF simultaneously this way. Combined with a tilt LCD this would yield a great body.
Side note on the GXR vs. NEX ergonomics. Owning and using both, often simultaneously, I prefer the NEX-6 with the Jim Buchanan palm grip when using anything bigger than a ZM25/2.8. But for tiny lenses like the ZM 35/2.8 or CV15/4.5 I like the smaller profile of the GXR. In my mind, there is no doubt that the GXR has the vast advantage of control customization and button assignment, even though it may not be as comfortable to hold with bigger lenses. Regarding the detachable EVF, it's a huge pain to get in and out of a bag on the go, constantly snagging. I mostly just use the LCD even in bright light, but I only use this camera with the CV15 these days so it's a matter of framing, not acquiring critical focus.
Regarding the EVF built-in vs. detachable, I remember in the GXR thread fantasizing about a body with an integrated hinged EVF that sat flush at the corner of the body, but could be tilted up like the detachable one. I'd easily be willing to forego a built-in flash to accomodate an EVF like this. You could also use a hot-shoe flash and EVF simultaneously this way. Combined with a tilt LCD this would yield a great body.
Side note on the GXR vs. NEX ergonomics. Owning and using both, often simultaneously, I prefer the NEX-6 with the Jim Buchanan palm grip when using anything bigger than a ZM25/2.8. But for tiny lenses like the ZM 35/2.8 or CV15/4.5 I like the smaller profile of the GXR. In my mind, there is no doubt that the GXR has the vast advantage of control customization and button assignment, even though it may not be as comfortable to hold with bigger lenses. Regarding the detachable EVF, it's a huge pain to get in and out of a bag on the go, constantly snagging. I mostly just use the LCD even in bright light, but I only use this camera with the CV15 these days so it's a matter of framing, not acquiring critical focus.
Jul 09, 2013 at 05:31 PM
p.7 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uscmatt99 wrote:
This will be a great development if it comes to fruition as we all hope it will. I'm not sure yet on my size preference. If it will work well with RF glass, I hope it's compact. If it's not going to perform well with RF glass, I hope it's larger, like a taller version of the NEX-7, to more easily get three fingers on the grip. I figure that if I need to be using SLR glass or the new mount's lenses, I'd rather have a nice fat grip without necessitating an add-on. For example, I can't wait to...Show more →
A tilt, built-in EVF would be cool, but I do like how a hotshoe EVF gets your nose up over the camera when you tilt it, especially for left-eyed shooters.
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?
This will be a great development if it comes to fruition as we all hope it will. I'm not sure yet on my size preference. If it will work well with RF glass, I hope it's compact. If it's not going to perform well with RF glass, I hope it's larger, like a taller version of the NEX-7, to more easily get three fingers on the grip. I figure that if I need to be using SLR glass or the new mount's lenses, I'd rather have a nice fat grip without necessitating an add-on. For example, I can't wait to...Show more →
A tilt, built-in EVF would be cool, but I do like how a hotshoe EVF gets your nose up over the camera when you tilt it, especially for left-eyed shooters.
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?
Jul 09, 2013 at 05:44 PM
p.7 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
'I fail to see what's "better" with 36 or more MP.'
In a word, sales. Nikon did very nicely from the D800 series, and gained huge kudos from the Sony item that is the heart of the camera.
I can't get away from the RX1 development notion..it is Sony/Zeiss's benchmark camera in this arena, and shows just how significant lens/sensor matching can be in high cost hi-po cameras.
Sony also got burned by the market for not having excellent NEX lenses ready for last go around. They should not make that mistake again. So it surely will be expensive, and come with a few bespoke lenses (maybe 25, 50 and 85)- Touit points this way despite being a Zeiss owned product line for both E/X mounts. People are apparently still buying low end DSLRs in droves so mirrorless needs to go upmarket.
Leica do better than exist in the MF market of 6000 units per annum - lots of profit at a low scale of production. Sony have already tried building product lines from the ground up - low mass market models first, high end later. It didn't work, either for NEX or for Alpha. The market is moving too fast these days, and Sony are innovators, not empire builders. Start at the top therefore, and work down later.
Sounds like a 2014 release, plenty of time for CZ the way they are churning them out on several fronts these days.
The worst mistake is to try to offer something to attempt to challenge DLSRs, too many design compromises there.
In a word, sales. Nikon did very nicely from the D800 series, and gained huge kudos from the Sony item that is the heart of the camera.
I can't get away from the RX1 development notion..it is Sony/Zeiss's benchmark camera in this arena, and shows just how significant lens/sensor matching can be in high cost hi-po cameras.
Sony also got burned by the market for not having excellent NEX lenses ready for last go around. They should not make that mistake again. So it surely will be expensive, and come with a few bespoke lenses (maybe 25, 50 and 85)- Touit points this way despite being a Zeiss owned product line for both E/X mounts. People are apparently still buying low end DSLRs in droves so mirrorless needs to go upmarket.
Leica do better than exist in the MF market of 6000 units per annum - lots of profit at a low scale of production. Sony have already tried building product lines from the ground up - low mass market models first, high end later. It didn't work, either for NEX or for Alpha. The market is moving too fast these days, and Sony are innovators, not empire builders. Start at the top therefore, and work down later.
Sounds like a 2014 release, plenty of time for CZ the way they are churning them out on several fronts these days.
The worst mistake is to try to offer something to attempt to challenge DLSRs, too many design compromises there.
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:02 PM
p.7 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
douglasf13 wrote:
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:37 PM
p.7 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
telyt wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.
+1, x2, and
I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?+1, x2, and
I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:55 PM
p.7 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Why not Leitax all those Rs you have?
I doubt FF NEX will have SSS (IBIS in Olympus speak), very unlikely. And another thing to doubt is that it will have some usable grip. Most likely going to be just another NEX-6 or 7, only bit bigger. Sony has obsession with miniaturization (otherwise RX1 would have built-in EVF).
Btw. not sure what you are missing from Alpha system. Their 70-400mm MK2 is very very good lens. 500/4 is most likely best 500 ever. And there is couple of Minolta AF lens which are not bad either (600/4 anyone?).
And I know, maybe heresy for you, but Sigma makes rather nice 120-300/2.8 now (edit: but doesnt seem to be in Sony mount.. sad
)
I agree on that AF tho, just give me nice big bright OVF.. (or at least EVF).
I doubt FF NEX will have SSS (IBIS in Olympus speak), very unlikely. And another thing to doubt is that it will have some usable grip. Most likely going to be just another NEX-6 or 7, only bit bigger. Sony has obsession with miniaturization (otherwise RX1 would have built-in EVF).
Btw. not sure what you are missing from Alpha system. Their 70-400mm MK2 is very very good lens. 500/4 is most likely best 500 ever. And there is couple of Minolta AF lens which are not bad either (600/4 anyone?).
And I know, maybe heresy for you, but Sigma makes rather nice 120-300/2.8 now (edit: but doesnt seem to be in Sony mount.. sad
)I agree on that AF tho, just give me nice big bright OVF.. (or at least EVF).
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:03 PM
p.7 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uscmatt99 wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.+1, x2, and
I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
http://leitax.com/Voigtlander-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html
Maybe this? Expensive tho..
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
http://leitax.com/Voigtlander-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html
Maybe this? Expensive tho..
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:06 PM
p.7 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
aleksanderpolo wrote:
IMHO, you are probably an outlier in terms of ergonomic preference, sorry to say
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
Wouldn't be the first time I was an ergonomic outlier, but I have to ask, are most of the people you know eleven years old? I ask because my neighbor's eleven year-old son has the perfect size hands for the GXR.
I can see why someone would prefer the click stop wheels on electronic controls, but it doesn't bother me, and I actually find it advantageous in scenarios where I'm moving in and out of doors frequently or shooting a room with a well-lit side and a cave-like side.
I've heard that Nikon has an exclusivity deal on the 36mp sensor for a specific period of time, but I have no idea if it's true.
IMHO, you are probably an outlier in terms of ergonomic preference, sorry to say
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
Wouldn't be the first time I was an ergonomic outlier, but I have to ask, are most of the people you know eleven years old? I ask because my neighbor's eleven year-old son has the perfect size hands for the GXR.
I can see why someone would prefer the click stop wheels on electronic controls, but it doesn't bother me, and I actually find it advantageous in scenarios where I'm moving in and out of doors frequently or shooting a room with a well-lit side and a cave-like side.I've heard that Nikon has an exclusivity deal on the 36mp sensor for a specific period of time, but I have no idea if it's true.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:13 PM
p.7 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Mescalamba wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.+1, x2, and
I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.http://leitax.com/Voigtlander-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html
Maybe this? Expensive tho..
Cheap compared to Super-tele's. You can buy a LOT of Leitax kits for the cost of even a used Minolta 600/4 or 300/2.8 SSM, or for that matter the price difference between the likely $3500 NEX-9 and the ~$2500 A99. An A99 with the SLT mirror removed is simply the best platform available for R lens shooting. Only the D800 can really rival it and then it's a case of focusing and IS vs outright resolution (A99 is far better for focusing and offers IS if your Leitax adapters are chipped but the D800 retains a moderate resolution advantage).
Personally, given the advantages of the A99 for in the field shooting (remember it also offers far larger batteries, a grip with a second battery and full weather sealing), I can't see the cost savings of using an R-NEX adapter outweighing the advantages of the A99 for a serious R shooter who is using larger R lenses, especially when you are looking at getting 7-10 lenses converted for the likely price difference between the two bodies. Note that the NEX-9 will also likely share the absolutely atrocious tripod mount that is par for the course with all the previous NEX bodies (and remains one reason why I switched to m43 from NEX, I love the NEX-7 as a street-shooting camera with MF lenses, I prefer the OM-D the moment I have to use AF lenses or a tripod, or for that matter shoot in adverse conditions. Aside from size, the OM-D and A99 share the features I prefer over the NEX-7 and the A99 retains the NEX-7 far superior manual focus capabilities).
As to A mount adaptation:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
The only adaptable lenses are Medium Format or M42 mounts.
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 08:24 PM · View previous versions
uscmatt99 wrote
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
Maybe this? Expensive tho..
Cheap compared to Super-tele's. You can buy a LOT of Leitax kits for the cost of even a used Minolta 600/4 or 300/2.8 SSM, or for that matter the price difference between the likely $3500 NEX-9 and the ~$2500 A99. An A99 with the SLT mirror removed is simply the best platform available for R lens shooting. Only the D800 can really rival it and then it's a case of focusing and IS vs outright resolution (A99 is far better for focusing and offers IS if your Leitax adapters are chipped but the D800 retains a moderate resolution advantage).
Personally, given the advantages of the A99 for in the field shooting (remember it also offers far larger batteries, a grip with a second battery and full weather sealing), I can't see the cost savings of using an R-NEX adapter outweighing the advantages of the A99 for a serious R shooter who is using larger R lenses, especially when you are looking at getting 7-10 lenses converted for the likely price difference between the two bodies. Note that the NEX-9 will also likely share the absolutely atrocious tripod mount that is par for the course with all the previous NEX bodies (and remains one reason why I switched to m43 from NEX, I love the NEX-7 as a street-shooting camera with MF lenses, I prefer the OM-D the moment I have to use AF lenses or a tripod, or for that matter shoot in adverse conditions. Aside from size, the OM-D and A99 share the features I prefer over the NEX-7 and the A99 retains the NEX-7 far superior manual focus capabilities).
As to A mount adaptation:
F mount lenses can be Leitax's as well, but only AI-S, ZF(.2) and SLII lenses.
The only adaptable lenses are Medium Format or M42 mounts.
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 08:24 PM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:16 PM
p.7 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
telyt wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.
Yeah, I know Telyt. I was asking uscmatt99, because it didn't sound like he had a ton of lenses like you do, so a mount change may not be a big deal for him.
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?Yeah, I know Telyt. I was asking uscmatt99, because it didn't sound like he had a ton of lenses like you do, so a mount change may not be a big deal for him.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:17 PM
p.7 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
uscmatt99 wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.+1, x2, and
I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
Yeah, I was referring to a Leitax mount change for your ZFs. If it were me, and I was shooting ZF (or R lenses,) I'd have changed all of my mounts at this point (assuming I had models that were compatible for the mounts,) and I'd be using the A99 with the mirror removed. I can't really imagine a better manual focus setup, and IBIS would be working great if you get the mounts chipped, too.
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 08:21 PM · View previous versions
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?I don't have the collection of alt glass many of you guys do, all of mine is in F-mount and M-mount. I thought F-mount glass couldn't be adapted to Sony bodies, but required a mount change, but I haven't looked into it much. To be honest, if Nikon ever came out with a mirrorless live-view camera I'd be thrilled as well, and would continue to use my RF glass on a NEX body or maybe an M-body someday.
Yeah, I was referring to a Leitax mount change for your ZFs. If it were me, and I was shooting ZF (or R lenses,) I'd have changed all of my mounts at this point (assuming I had models that were compatible for the mounts,) and I'd be using the A99 with the mirror removed. I can't really imagine a better manual focus setup, and IBIS would be working great if you get the mounts chipped, too.
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 08:21 PM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:19 PM
p.7 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
wfrank wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...I fail to see what's "better" with 36 or more MP. With 20-25 the blur is detailed enough and as for sharpness any good lens would allow a facade size print.
Well, it's better for hard drive manufacturers and makers of SD cards.
It was a poor choice of words, particularly for an international audience. "36 or more" is what I meant. As far as I'm concerned, they can continue to make 24mp sensors until we stop using CMOS sensors in cameras.
freaklikeme wrote
...It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...
Well, it's better for hard drive manufacturers and makers of SD cards.
It was a poor choice of words, particularly for an international audience. "36 or more" is what I meant. As far as I'm concerned, they can continue to make 24mp sensors until we stop using CMOS sensors in cameras.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:20 PM
p.7 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
douglasf13 wrote:
For me the A99's weakness is adaptability. The Alpha system doesn't have top-end lenses in the focal lengths I use and the shorter flange-to-sensor distance of the NEX (up to now at least) means I can use a huge number of lenses on it. Put an A99-grade viewfinder and A99-grade sensor and A99-grade IBIS in a body with NEX-sized flange-to-sensor distance and I'll be very very interested. AF can flush itself down a toilet for all I care.Yeah, I know Telyt. I was asking uscmatt99, because it didn't sound like he had a ton of lenses like you do, so a mount change may not be a big deal for him.
I don't have a ton of lenses but two (of five) cannot be adapted to Alpha and adapting the 280 APO to Alpha means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x extenders. The Sony Alpha extenders aren't nearly as good.
telyt wrote
douglasf13 wrote
Out of curiosity, if size isn't so much of an issue, why not consider the current A99?I don't have a ton of lenses but two (of five) cannot be adapted to Alpha and adapting the 280 APO to Alpha means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x extenders. The Sony Alpha extenders aren't nearly as good.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:29 PM
p.7 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Mescalamba wrote:
Why not Leitax all those Rs you have?
Btw. not sure what you are missing from Alpha system. Their 70-400mm MK2 is very very good lens. 500/4 is most likely best 500 ever. And there is couple of Minolta AF lens which are not bad either (600/4 anyone?).
I'm not interested in a behemoth lens and zooms just don't work for me. A 300mm f/4 with decent extenders is more important to me, and once you've used the Leica 280mm f/4 APO nothing else is good enough. Leitaxing it means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x APO extenders and I'd be giving up too much image quality using the Sony extenders.
mawz wrote:
An A99 with the SLT mirror removed is simply the best platform available for R lens shooting.
Not if you're using R extenders.
Why not Leitax all those Rs you have?
Btw. not sure what you are missing from Alpha system. Their 70-400mm MK2 is very very good lens. 500/4 is most likely best 500 ever. And there is couple of Minolta AF lens which are not bad either (600/4 anyone?).
I'm not interested in a behemoth lens and zooms just don't work for me. A 300mm f/4 with decent extenders is more important to me, and once you've used the Leica 280mm f/4 APO nothing else is good enough. Leitaxing it means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x APO extenders and I'd be giving up too much image quality using the Sony extenders.
mawz wrote:
An A99 with the SLT mirror removed is simply the best platform available for R lens shooting.
Not if you're using R extenders.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:35 PM
p.7 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
telyt wrote:
I don't have a ton of lenses but two (of five) cannot be adapted to Alpha and adapting the 280 APO to Alpha means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x extenders. The Sony Alpha extenders aren't nearly as good.
Frankly in your specific case I think the best solution would be to explore a custom mount conversion to R mount for the A99 rather than converting lenses. It should be doable given the register difference and it would solve both your issues. And likely shouldn't cost more than the price difference between an A99 and the likely cost of a NEX-9 (ie about $1K)
I wonder if Jim Buchanan would be interested in such a project?
I don't have a ton of lenses but two (of five) cannot be adapted to Alpha and adapting the 280 APO to Alpha means not using the Leica 1.4x and 2x extenders. The Sony Alpha extenders aren't nearly as good.
Frankly in your specific case I think the best solution would be to explore a custom mount conversion to R mount for the A99 rather than converting lenses. It should be doable given the register difference and it would solve both your issues. And likely shouldn't cost more than the price difference between an A99 and the likely cost of a NEX-9 (ie about $1K)
I wonder if Jim Buchanan would be interested in such a project?
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:37 PM