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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.2 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
There comes a point of diminishing returns, though.
I view one of the very best things about mirrorless to be the massive reduction in size from my previous full frame kit. My m4/3 kit has FOV equivalent from a 15mm fisheye to 600mm, and weighs a fraction of what I previously was carrying.
I also use Fuji X, which is very good, though I'm already running into the size thing, as the 55-200 is pretty large for a moderate aperture 300mm equivalent. (It's bigger than the 75-300 for m4/3, with half the reach...though faster aperture). The lenses there are just on the edge of being small enough to be worthwhile, but the extremes there are still somewhat large. A FF mirrorless body is only going to make sense for about 21mm to 85mm, and then the lenses have no size advantage at all over a FF SLR, so now you're basically carrying the same kit with a smaller body.
Unless, of course, you choose to forgo AF and stick with rangefinder lenses...but even then, you're still only small in the wide to short telephoto range.
I view one of the very best things about mirrorless to be the massive reduction in size from my previous full frame kit. My m4/3 kit has FOV equivalent from a 15mm fisheye to 600mm, and weighs a fraction of what I previously was carrying.
I also use Fuji X, which is very good, though I'm already running into the size thing, as the 55-200 is pretty large for a moderate aperture 300mm equivalent. (It's bigger than the 75-300 for m4/3, with half the reach...though faster aperture). The lenses there are just on the edge of being small enough to be worthwhile, but the extremes there are still somewhat large. A FF mirrorless body is only going to make sense for about 21mm to 85mm, and then the lenses have no size advantage at all over a FF SLR, so now you're basically carrying the same kit with a smaller body.
Unless, of course, you choose to forgo AF and stick with rangefinder lenses...but even then, you're still only small in the wide to short telephoto range.
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:30 AM
p.2 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Can it be true 
After the question about rangefinder lenses and corner performance has been answered, comes how well is it going to work with conventional adapters to various lens mounts?
Will dere be room inside the adapter for a full image circle?
I have plenty of DSLR lenses that are small enough to make a point for use on such a camera. I already use them with the SpeedBooster or regular EF or N adapters, and the size and weigth saving from a DSLR is more than meaningful.
Regarding different directions that Spyro P. mentions, i would actually prefer a 36 MP sensor with EF adaptability and poor rangefinder lens corner performance, over a 24 MP sensor with the opposite.
Think landscape camera with high resolution and dynamic range, and Canon T/S lenses. The last poor souls waiting for a Canon high res camera will be relieved.
But I will be happy for either camp, whatever comes.
After the question about rangefinder lenses and corner performance has been answered, comes how well is it going to work with conventional adapters to various lens mounts?
Will dere be room inside the adapter for a full image circle?
I have plenty of DSLR lenses that are small enough to make a point for use on such a camera. I already use them with the SpeedBooster or regular EF or N adapters, and the size and weigth saving from a DSLR is more than meaningful.
Regarding different directions that Spyro P. mentions, i would actually prefer a 36 MP sensor with EF adaptability and poor rangefinder lens corner performance, over a 24 MP sensor with the opposite.
Think landscape camera with high resolution and dynamic range, and Canon T/S lenses. The last poor souls waiting for a Canon high res camera will be relieved.
But I will be happy for either camp, whatever comes.
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:35 AM
p.2 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Please make this camera a high end camera! Put the D800 sensor in it. Put in Wifi and GPS. Put a good battery in it. Put an EVF in it. Make it tough.
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:38 AM
p.2 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
The only lens Sony makes that's worth a damn in mirrorless is the Zeiss 24mm F1.8. The only one after how many years?
Everything else is bad to somewhat mediocre. Now they're going to make full frame lenses?
Everything else is bad to somewhat mediocre. Now they're going to make full frame lenses?
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:38 AM
p.2 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Stop being so negative, you know Sony can make good lenses, full frame or APS-C. If they're making a full-frame model, it's going to cost more, and those customers are going to be willing to spend more on a lens. I know you don't honestly think they're going to make a 28-300 zoom to put on it, so calm down and drink some tea 
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:42 AM
p.2 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
is it me or wasn't there a graphic from Zeiss hinting that there was another line of lenses coming after the Touit. Would make sense for them to release a set for the first FF mirrorless (probably your standard primes)... would make a lot of sense for Sony too since it would get them a lot of attention and body sales while they get their own lenses together (G level zooms, etc).
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:43 AM
p.2 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
But it would be a platform for many FF legacy manual focus lenses which are available in large numbers and already in the hands of many photographers. This would give Sony time to release new lenses.
Rich
Agree, it could basically become the default alt body for any lens out there. My fear is if Sony does something to it which makes it proprietary with regard to lenses.
Jman13 wrote
If it works well with rangefinder lenses, it could really dig into Leica's body market (while creating more demand for their lenses). If it doesn't, well, I don't see too much of a point, as the lenses will be big, and there won't be many to begin with.Rich
Agree, it could basically become the default alt body for any lens out there. My fear is if Sony does something to it which makes it proprietary with regard to lenses.
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:52 AM
p.2 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Sony reps talk about how the RX1 fixed-lens design benefits from the mating of the tuned sensor with the Zeiss Sonar lens.
It's nice marketing spin although I hope the engineers understand that a sensor design flexible enough to cater to multiple lens options (high incidence RF) would be even more desirable.
So exciting and yet so tense!
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 07:31 AM · View previous versions
It's nice marketing spin although I hope the engineers understand that a sensor design flexible enough to cater to multiple lens options (high incidence RF) would be even more desirable.
So exciting and yet so tense!
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 07:31 AM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 06:54 AM
p.2 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
ricardovaste wrote:
Stop being so negative, you know Sony can make good lenses, full frame or APS-C. If they're making a full-frame model, it's going to cost more, and those customers are going to be willing to spend more on a lens. I know you don't honestly think they're going to make a 28-300 zoom to put on it, so calm down and drink some tea
I honestly think the only reason they make some good lenses in Minolta mount is because of the Minolta acquisition.
Stop being so negative, you know Sony can make good lenses, full frame or APS-C. If they're making a full-frame model, it's going to cost more, and those customers are going to be willing to spend more on a lens. I know you don't honestly think they're going to make a 28-300 zoom to put on it, so calm down and drink some tea
I honestly think the only reason they make some good lenses in Minolta mount is because of the Minolta acquisition.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:02 AM
p.2 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Silly me; I prayed for peace on earth.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:17 AM
p.2 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tone it down Fly, or you'll start to sound like a troll.
I get that you don't want to get your hopes up just to have them crushed by bad design,
I have those same fears, the FF NEX camcorder had better than expected RF performance
and they've had lots of time to improve the corner performance.
I'm really looking forward to using my CV15 on FF.
The rumors have been that Zeiss has been in the development loop on the FF NEX from the beginning.
Lets just hope that they have had feedback to Sony to make it better.
Plus dont forget the roar of the Internet over the NEX -7's RF WA issues, you'd think they heard that
and will do their best to fix it since it will make it easier for them to make compact wides for this FF camera system.
RE: size...
I will be very surprised if its more than a cm bigger than my 7 in any dimension,
I'm more worried about heat and battery performance, also its responsiveness will be important, basically if it can match my 7 I'll be happy, a larger buffer, a higher rez EVF with a higher magnification, weather sealing, and IBIS would be very welcome.
Counting the days till release........
I get that you don't want to get your hopes up just to have them crushed by bad design,
I have those same fears, the FF NEX camcorder had better than expected RF performance
and they've had lots of time to improve the corner performance.
I'm really looking forward to using my CV15 on FF.
The rumors have been that Zeiss has been in the development loop on the FF NEX from the beginning.
Lets just hope that they have had feedback to Sony to make it better.
Plus dont forget the roar of the Internet over the NEX -7's RF WA issues, you'd think they heard that
and will do their best to fix it since it will make it easier for them to make compact wides for this FF camera system.
RE: size...
I will be very surprised if its more than a cm bigger than my 7 in any dimension,
I'm more worried about heat and battery performance, also its responsiveness will be important, basically if it can match my 7 I'll be happy, a larger buffer, a higher rez EVF with a higher magnification, weather sealing, and IBIS would be very welcome.
Counting the days till release........
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:19 AM
p.2 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Rodluvan wrote:
Silly me; I prayed for peace on earth.
and how did it work out for you?
Silly me; I prayed for peace on earth.
and how did it work out for you?
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:21 AM
p.2 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
FlyPenFly wrote:
I honestly think the only reason they make some good lenses in Minolta mount is because of the Minolta acquisition.
Well, considering they already have the former Minolta, Zeiss, and now Olympus on board, I'd say lens design isn't something to worry about. Zeiss has allegedly signed on to this project.
That being said, if this camera keeps the same e-mount, lens size may be something to worry about. I also don't think this camera will have a sensor that works well with M lenses.
ricardovaste wrote
Stop being so negative, you know Sony can make good lenses, full frame or APS-C. If they're making a full-frame model, it's going to cost more, and those customers are going to be willing to spend more on a lens. I know you don't honestly think they're going to make a 28-300 zoom to put on it, so calm down and drink some teaWell, considering they already have the former Minolta, Zeiss, and now Olympus on board, I'd say lens design isn't something to worry about. Zeiss has allegedly signed on to this project.
That being said, if this camera keeps the same e-mount, lens size may be something to worry about. I also don't think this camera will have a sensor that works well with M lenses.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:21 AM
p.2 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
FlyPenFly wrote:
The only lens Sony makes that's worth a damn in mirrorless is the Zeiss 24mm F1.8. The only one after how many years?
Everything else is bad to somewhat mediocre. Now they're going to make full frame lenses?
This is just negative trolling. Please stop.
The only lens Sony makes that's worth a damn in mirrorless is the Zeiss 24mm F1.8. The only one after how many years?
Everything else is bad to somewhat mediocre. Now they're going to make full frame lenses?
This is just negative trolling. Please stop.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:48 AM
p.2 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Jman13 wrote:
A FF mirrorless body is only going to make sense for about 21mm to 85mm, and then the lenses have no size advantage at all over a FF SLR, so now you're basically carrying the same kit with a smaller body.
yup
thats why I said I'd only be interested if it works well with RF lenses, because they are FF and tiny.
Not interested in bulky AF zeiss lenses for sony AF cameras that cost $2k and have no manual controls, just because they have low distortion or whatever, it doesnt make sense to me. It does however make a lot of sense to a landscape shooter who prints big, so it goes back to what I said before: it's very hard to make everybody happy...
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 07:53 AM · View previous versions
A FF mirrorless body is only going to make sense for about 21mm to 85mm, and then the lenses have no size advantage at all over a FF SLR, so now you're basically carrying the same kit with a smaller body.
yup
thats why I said I'd only be interested if it works well with RF lenses, because they are FF and tiny.
Not interested in bulky AF zeiss lenses for sony AF cameras that cost $2k and have no manual controls, just because they have low distortion or whatever, it doesnt make sense to me. It does however make a lot of sense to a landscape shooter who prints big, so it goes back to what I said before: it's very hard to make everybody happy...
Edited on Jul 09, 2013 at 07:53 AM · View previous versions
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:52 AM
p.2 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
snowboarder wrote:
and how did it work out for you?
Not at all
Wrong number I guess.
and how did it work out for you?
Not at all
Wrong number I guess.
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:52 AM
p.2 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
snowboarder wrote:
What worries me are the latest reports about Leica M poor performance with their own wide lenses.
Really? Which lenses? I own the M240 and it works superbly with WA's. Don't trust everything you read....
What worries me are the latest reports about Leica M poor performance with their own wide lenses.
Really? Which lenses? I own the M240 and it works superbly with WA's. Don't trust everything you read....
Jul 09, 2013 at 07:56 AM
p.2 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Gary Clennan wrote:
Really? Which lenses? I own the M240 and it works superbly with WA's. Don't trust everything you read....
18 and 21 SEM. Have you had a chance to try those two?
snowboarder wrote
What worries me are the latest reports about Leica M poor performance with their own wide lenses.18 and 21 SEM. Have you had a chance to try those two?
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:04 AM
p.2 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Spyro P. wrote:
yup
thats why I said I'd only be interested if it works well with RF lenses, because they are FF and tiny.
Not interested in bulky AF zeiss lenses for sony AF cameras that cost $2k and have no manual controls, just because they have low distortion or whatever, it doesnt make sense to me. It does however make a lot of sense to a landscape shooter who prints big, so it goes back to what I said before: it's very hard to make everybody happy...
If they release, with Zeiss, a 21/2.8 with AF and it isn't sized like a house, I won't complain. And as I said earlier, I don't think legacy glass from 35mm and longer will be problematic.
Jman13 wrote
A FF mirrorless body is only going to make sense for about 21mm to 85mm, and then the lenses have no size advantage at all over a FF SLR, so now you're basically carrying the same kit with a smaller body.thats why I said I'd only be interested if it works well with RF lenses, because they are FF and tiny.
Not interested in bulky AF zeiss lenses for sony AF cameras that cost $2k and have no manual controls, just because they have low distortion or whatever, it doesnt make sense to me. It does however make a lot of sense to a landscape shooter who prints big, so it goes back to what I said before: it's very hard to make everybody happy...
If they release, with Zeiss, a 21/2.8 with AF and it isn't sized like a house, I won't complain. And as I said earlier, I don't think legacy glass from 35mm and longer will be problematic.
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:16 AM
p.2 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
snowboarder wrote:
Really? Which lenses? I own the M240 and it works superbly with WA's. Don't trust everything you read....18 and 21 SEM. Have you had a chance to try those two?
I have the 21SEM and it is the best performing 21mm lens I have ever owned (including ZF21). I have used it a lot on the M240 and it is one of my favorite combinations. I have not tried the 18mm yet though....
Gary Clennan wrote
snowboarder wrote
What worries me are the latest reports about Leica M poor performance with their own wide lenses.I have the 21SEM and it is the best performing 21mm lens I have ever owned (including ZF21). I have used it a lot on the M240 and it is one of my favorite combinations. I have not tried the 18mm yet though....
Jul 09, 2013 at 08:17 AM