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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.6 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
aleksanderpolo wrote:
If the rumored GXR is a FF-M, it's going to be
GXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.
If that were to happen, things might get very interesting because I suspect the below will be true:
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
If the rumored GXR is a FF-M, it's going to be
GXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.
If that were to happen, things might get very interesting because I suspect the below will be true:
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:28 PM
p.6 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
GXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.If that were to happen, things might get very interesting because I suspect the below will be true:
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
The Sony would probably also have a better EVF, but I'm doubtful that a FF Ricoh is coming, either way.
aleksanderpolo wrote
If the rumored GXR is a FF-M, it's going to beGXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
The Sony would probably also have a better EVF, but I'm doubtful that a FF Ricoh is coming, either way.
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:42 PM
p.6 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:51 PM
p.6 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.
I hope that the EVF will not be an add on. I fully expect it to be built tin too their top of the line NEX camera.
Rich
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.
I hope that the EVF will not be an add on. I fully expect it to be built tin too their top of the line NEX camera.
Rich
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:54 PM
p.6 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
I hope and kind of doubt that the EVF will not be an add on. I fully expect it to be built tin too their top of the line NEX camera.
Rich
I know a lot of folks around here might want that. For me, having the ability to tilt the EVF is a huge advantage.
Tariq Gibran wrote
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.Rich
I know a lot of folks around here might want that. For me, having the ability to tilt the EVF is a huge advantage.
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:57 PM
p.6 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I hope and kind of doubt that the EVF will not be an add on. I fully expect it to be built tin too their top of the line NEX camera.
RichI know a lot of folks around here might want that. For me, having the ability to tilt the EVF is a huge advantage.
But, like many we anticipate a tiltable LCD screen. Also, the add on EVF is another component to damage and potentially lose in the field.
Rich
naturephoto1 wrote
Tariq Gibran wrote
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.Rich
But, like many we anticipate a tiltable LCD screen. Also, the add on EVF is another component to damage and potentially lose in the field.
Rich
Jul 09, 2013 at 01:59 PM
p.6 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
A locking EVF like the Olympus VF-3 or VF-4 is the ticket. Tilting removable VF is really, really awesome.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:08 PM
p.6 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sebboh wrote:
Same here 
i would like to take full credit for this rumor. i knew that sony would wait till just after i bought an rx-1 to announce a FF mirrorless.
Just wait until it is released. You may be perfectly happy with the RX-1... Pretty exciting times though and I'm happy to see this new (hopefully) trend.
edwardkaraa wrote
ken.vs.ryu wrote
Gear buying on hold until further notice.Just wait until it is released. You may be perfectly happy with the RX-1... Pretty exciting times though and I'm happy to see this new (hopefully) trend.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:14 PM
p.6 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
FlyPenFly wrote:
A locking EVF like the Olympus VF-3 or VF-4 is the ticket. Tilting removable VF is really, really awesome.
Like on the Leica M240. But, how do you carry the camera when it is packed? Do you leave the EVF in place in the camera bag/backpack and risk damage? Of do you install and remove the EVF to take the photos and to store the camera?
Rich
A locking EVF like the Olympus VF-3 or VF-4 is the ticket. Tilting removable VF is really, really awesome.
Like on the Leica M240. But, how do you carry the camera when it is packed? Do you leave the EVF in place in the camera bag/backpack and risk damage? Of do you install and remove the EVF to take the photos and to store the camera?
Rich
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:22 PM
p.6 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I'd be surprised if Sony is gunning for anything other than taking a bite out of Canon and Nikon's FF platform sales with this camera. So I'm not getting my hopes up for great RF lens compatibility, a great native lens selection for a while, or small lenses in general. The most likely scenario is that it's going to be expensive, it's not going to have much of a native lens selection for years to come, the native lenses that are released will be large, and support for non-native lenses will be about as mediocre as always.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:22 PM
p.6 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
GXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.If that were to happen, things might get very interesting because I suspect the below will be true:
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
While I understand the appreciation for Ricoh's simple UI over Sony's phone-like interface, I don't get the appreciation of the ergonomics. The tiny little buttons on the overcrowded, too narrow grip and the fixed LCD are exactly what makes me want to get rid of the GXR. I could live with the so-so live view implementation, center-frame magnification, and just-usable EVF if it were more comfortable and had a tilt screen.
It'll be interesting to see if Sony uses the 36mp sensor in the first FF. It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better. My guess is what we'll get a is a larger NEX-7 style body with EVF performance comparable to or better than the NEX-6/a99, an upgraded Alpha adapter for FF lenses, and maybe a small version of the a99's control wheel on the front of the camera.
aleksanderpolo wrote
If the rumored GXR is a FF-M, it's going to beGXR-M vs NEX-5N, round 2.
The FF GXR-M will play extremely well with rangefinder wides and have much better ergonomics and user interface as compared to Sony but...
The FF NEX Sony will use at least a 36MP FF sensor and the Ricoh most likely the ubiquitous 24MP FF Sony sensor.
While I understand the appreciation for Ricoh's simple UI over Sony's phone-like interface, I don't get the appreciation of the ergonomics. The tiny little buttons on the overcrowded, too narrow grip and the fixed LCD are exactly what makes me want to get rid of the GXR. I could live with the so-so live view implementation, center-frame magnification, and just-usable EVF if it were more comfortable and had a tilt screen.
It'll be interesting to see if Sony uses the 36mp sensor in the first FF. It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better. My guess is what we'll get a is a larger NEX-7 style body with EVF performance comparable to or better than the NEX-6/a99, an upgraded Alpha adapter for FF lenses, and maybe a small version of the a99's control wheel on the front of the camera.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:33 PM
p.6 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
alundeb wrote:
Here is a quick illustration of the compactness we can expect with a legacy normal prime lens on a NEX-7 sized body between a DSLR and a native prime on a small APS-C NEX.
Personally, I value the compactness compared to the DSLR.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Overflate/SizeCompNEXFF_06_zps0566f8a4.jpg
douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, it still is a size advantage, although imagine if Sony makes a native 50/1.4 lens as large as that Zeiss with adapter. Actually, it would be larger, since it would need to accommodate AF and aperture motors. From a marketing perspective, we're going to get even more of the "huge lens" complaints that we get from some current NEX lenses, despite the overall size still being less than an equivalent DSLR.
If they use the same old sensor tech/design they will have to use big lenses to get the IQ we expect, where as if they make some improvements to the sensor that favors RF wides, that will have the added benefit that all their own lenses will be able to use simpler more compact designs, which is exactly what we all want, right?
Here is a quick illustration of the compactness we can expect with a legacy normal prime lens on a NEX-7 sized body between a DSLR and a native prime on a small APS-C NEX.
Personally, I value the compactness compared to the DSLR.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/Overflate/SizeCompNEXFF_06_zps0566f8a4.jpg
douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, it still is a size advantage, although imagine if Sony makes a native 50/1.4 lens as large as that Zeiss with adapter. Actually, it would be larger, since it would need to accommodate AF and aperture motors. From a marketing perspective, we're going to get even more of the "huge lens" complaints that we get from some current NEX lenses, despite the overall size still being less than an equivalent DSLR.
If they use the same old sensor tech/design they will have to use big lenses to get the IQ we expect, where as if they make some improvements to the sensor that favors RF wides, that will have the added benefit that all their own lenses will be able to use simpler more compact designs, which is exactly what we all want, right?
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:33 PM
p.6 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Gary Clennan wrote:
Same here i would like to take full credit for this rumor. i knew that sony would wait till just after i bought an rx-1 to announce a FF mirrorless.
Just wait until it is released. You may be perfectly happy with the RX-1... Pretty exciting times though and I'm happy to see this new (hopefully) trend.
oh, i'm sure i'll be perfectly happy with the rx-1. i just have too many lenses i love that won't fit on the rx-1. maybe i should sell some them or loan them out to try and remove that urge. definitely exciting times.
sebboh wrote
edwardkaraa wrote
ken.vs.ryu wrote
Gear buying on hold until further notice.Just wait until it is released. You may be perfectly happy with the RX-1... Pretty exciting times though and I'm happy to see this new (hopefully) trend.
oh, i'm sure i'll be perfectly happy with the rx-1. i just have too many lenses i love that won't fit on the rx-1. maybe i should sell some them or loan them out to try and remove that urge. definitely exciting times.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:33 PM
p.6 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
edwardkaraa wrote:
I personally would be willing to let go of my ZM lenses if the Zeiss options for this camera offer a similar performance with the added bonus of AF.
I would highly doubt that Sony would spend the time and money to develop a high end camera like this without at least bringing in Zeiss to make some amazing AF lenses. They should have both learned their lesson from the NEX rollout and watching Fuji release their X cameras.
I would be incredibly surprised if Sony made it this with lens adaptors in mind. I think Fuji only released an adapter because they knew they would be the cheaper alternative to Leica all-around. Sony can make some serious money on lenses for this system if they develop them with Zeiss and are available when the camera ships to customers.
I personally would be willing to let go of my ZM lenses if the Zeiss options for this camera offer a similar performance with the added bonus of AF.
I would highly doubt that Sony would spend the time and money to develop a high end camera like this without at least bringing in Zeiss to make some amazing AF lenses. They should have both learned their lesson from the NEX rollout and watching Fuji release their X cameras.
I would be incredibly surprised if Sony made it this with lens adaptors in mind. I think Fuji only released an adapter because they knew they would be the cheaper alternative to Leica all-around. Sony can make some serious money on lenses for this system if they develop them with Zeiss and are available when the camera ships to customers.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:36 PM
p.6 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sebboh wrote:
Same here i would like to take full credit for this rumor. i knew that sony would wait till just after i bought an rx-1 to announce a FF mirrorless.
Thanks for making that purchase!
If the rumor is true, it sounds like there's going to be something of a wait post-announcement anyway. You'll have months to rack up great shots on the RX-1.
edwardkaraa wrote
ken.vs.ryu wrote
Gear buying on hold until further notice.Thanks for making that purchase!
If the rumor is true, it sounds like there's going to be something of a wait post-announcement anyway. You'll have months to rack up great shots on the RX-1.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:40 PM
p.6 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I hope and kind of doubt that the EVF will not be an add on. I fully expect it to be built tin too their top of the line NEX camera.
RichI know a lot of folks around here might want that. For me, having the ability to tilt the EVF is a huge advantage.
Agreed. Although I was still debating this between my NEX-5N and NEX-7, I've fully turned the corner with the RX1. I'd prefer modular.
naturephoto1 wrote
Tariq Gibran wrote
I really hope whatever Sony releases is extremely modular with a detachable (and upgradeable) EVF that is compatible with the RX1.Rich
Agreed. Although I was still debating this between my NEX-5N and NEX-7, I've fully turned the corner with the RX1. I'd prefer modular.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:58 PM
p.6 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
LightShow wrote:
If they use the same old sensor tech/design they will have to use big lenses to get the IQ we expect, where as if they make some improvements to the sensor that favors RF wides, that will have the added benefit that all their own lenses will be able to use simpler more compact designs, which is exactly what we all want, right?
I think the issue is whether it would take "some" improvements vs. "a ton" of improvements. I think it would take the latter, which is why I'm not expecting it. Of course, I hope that I'm wrong.
If they use the same old sensor tech/design they will have to use big lenses to get the IQ we expect, where as if they make some improvements to the sensor that favors RF wides, that will have the added benefit that all their own lenses will be able to use simpler more compact designs, which is exactly what we all want, right?
I think the issue is whether it would take "some" improvements vs. "a ton" of improvements. I think it would take the latter, which is why I'm not expecting it. Of course, I hope that I'm wrong.
Jul 09, 2013 at 02:59 PM
p.6 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
IMHO, you are probably an outlier in terms of ergonomic preference, sorry to say
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
freaklikeme wrote:
While I understand the appreciation for Ricoh's simple UI over Sony's phone-like interface, I don't get the appreciation of the ergonomics. The tiny little buttons on the overcrowded, too narrow grip and the fixed LCD are exactly what makes me want to get rid of the GXR. I could live with the so-so live view implementation, center-frame magnification, and just-usable EVF if it were more comfortable and had a tilt screen.
It'll be interesting to see if Sony uses the 36mp sensor in the first FF. It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I...Show more →
Most people I know prefer the ergonomic and handling of Ricoh over Sony. I was holding a NEX6 the other day and my fingers were pinched between the overly square grip and the lens, very uncomfortable. Not to mention the endless spinning of control wheel, I thought I was playing with an ipod, again, sorry to say.
By the way, why isn't Sony using the 36MP sensor? Does it belong to Nikon only?
freaklikeme wrote:
While I understand the appreciation for Ricoh's simple UI over Sony's phone-like interface, I don't get the appreciation of the ergonomics. The tiny little buttons on the overcrowded, too narrow grip and the fixed LCD are exactly what makes me want to get rid of the GXR. I could live with the so-so live view implementation, center-frame magnification, and just-usable EVF if it were more comfortable and had a tilt screen.
It'll be interesting to see if Sony uses the 36mp sensor in the first FF. It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I...Show more →
Jul 09, 2013 at 03:52 PM
p.6 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
'that will have the added benefit that all their own lenses will be able to use simpler more compact designs, which is exactly what we all want, right?'
'Their own lenses' got me stopped in that line of thinking...it takes a huge amount of time and nous to get anything like what Zeiss, (sorry, now ZEISS) or Leica M can provide, so they won't care for a dev program. High risk too.
I bet ZEISS (sorry but company orders) already have a proto and are fixing to churn out more RX1 style lenses. Whatever else it is, any high end NEX will not be a cheapie, and will have its own lenses, that is my opinion until proven wrong, lol.
EVF, I just shot 1500 images with the RX1 and I love the detachable piece, you get a nice separation from your face to the body, people can still see you (kind of), it's easier to hold tight with strap pressure, and any new tech EVF can be retro-fitted. Needs a better more secure anchor mechanism though. With small cameras you generally have to squish the camera up to your face if the VF is built in, whereas the fine tune in the viewing angle you get in using the EVF is very nice indeed.
'Their own lenses' got me stopped in that line of thinking...it takes a huge amount of time and nous to get anything like what Zeiss, (sorry, now ZEISS) or Leica M can provide, so they won't care for a dev program. High risk too.
I bet ZEISS (sorry but company orders) already have a proto and are fixing to churn out more RX1 style lenses. Whatever else it is, any high end NEX will not be a cheapie, and will have its own lenses, that is my opinion until proven wrong, lol.
EVF, I just shot 1500 images with the RX1 and I love the detachable piece, you get a nice separation from your face to the body, people can still see you (kind of), it's easier to hold tight with strap pressure, and any new tech EVF can be retro-fitted. Needs a better more secure anchor mechanism though. With small cameras you generally have to squish the camera up to your face if the VF is built in, whereas the fine tune in the viewing angle you get in using the EVF is very nice indeed.
Jul 09, 2013 at 03:55 PM
p.6 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
freaklikeme wrote:
...
It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...
I fail to see what's "better" with 36 or more MP. With 20-25 the blur is detailed enough and as for sharpness any good lens would allow a facade size print.
...
It wouldn't surprise me if they stick with the 24mp sensor for now, but I can see them going all out with 36mp or better.
...
I fail to see what's "better" with 36 or more MP. With 20-25 the blur is detailed enough and as for sharpness any good lens would allow a facade size print.
Jul 09, 2013 at 04:27 PM