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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.40 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Spyro P. wrote:
or maybe they will come up with some innovative form, like this:
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-concept-2-590x394.jpg
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-concept-590x394.jpg
http://serjart.name/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-2.jpg
That's why they warn you not to leave your camera in the back window of a car on a hot day...
or maybe they will come up with some innovative form, like this:
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-concept-2-590x394.jpg
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-concept-590x394.jpg
http://serjart.name/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sony-a352-2.jpg
That's why they warn you not to leave your camera in the back window of a car on a hot day...
Oct 03, 2013 at 09:56 AM
p.40 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Wow, viewfinder location is quite a hot topic!
"It's in the center to keep the size down" Next to sensor compatibility with small wide-angle lenses, size is most important to me. So, if the Camera is smaller with the EVF in the middle, that's fine.
But, a week ago, the camera was "20%" bigger than the N7.
OMD groans are understandable. Like the plethora of pseudo-rangefinders, the OMD gains more ground on cosmetics than it does on performance. Sure it's a decent camera. State-of-the-art, not.
One thing for sure, it's going to be an interesting fall :-)
PS: love that a352!
Most earth shattering revelation: they don't call it nex! What does this mean for our nex images thread?
"It's in the center to keep the size down" Next to sensor compatibility with small wide-angle lenses, size is most important to me. So, if the Camera is smaller with the EVF in the middle, that's fine.
But, a week ago, the camera was "20%" bigger than the N7.
OMD groans are understandable. Like the plethora of pseudo-rangefinders, the OMD gains more ground on cosmetics than it does on performance. Sure it's a decent camera. State-of-the-art, not.
One thing for sure, it's going to be an interesting fall :-)
PS: love that a352!
Most earth shattering revelation: they don't call it nex! What does this mean for our nex images thread?
Oct 03, 2013 at 09:59 AM
p.40 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
I also wonder if placing the EVF in the center of the camera as a "hump" allowed it to provide a larger image size and a better performer like in the new Olympus E-M1.
Rich
The EVF image size of the E-M1 and NEX-7 are already nearly the same, so I'm not sure that's the reason.
Honestly, I think it's probably because Sony wanted to use a body that is similar in size to the RX1, and they wanted to retain the built-in flash, which takes up a lot of space on the RX1. That's my guess.
I also wonder if placing the EVF in the center of the camera as a "hump" allowed it to provide a larger image size and a better performer like in the new Olympus E-M1.
Rich
The EVF image size of the E-M1 and NEX-7 are already nearly the same, so I'm not sure that's the reason.
Honestly, I think it's probably because Sony wanted to use a body that is similar in size to the RX1, and they wanted to retain the built-in flash, which takes up a lot of space on the RX1. That's my guess.
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:08 AM
p.40 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
artur5 wrote:
I'm not sure I'd agree. I'd still probably rather have my nose rubbing the screen, rather than the controls on the right side of the body.If that Sony is similar in width to a NEX-7, with a centered viewfinder the tip of my nose would clear ( just ) the right side of the camera ( I'm checking in it now )
In using my left eye, my nose kind of gets in the way of controls and my right hand. That being said, it totally depends on the camera design. With my RX1, it works well, because my nose fits in under my right thumb, and my right thumb blocks my right eye, which allows me to keep both eyes open when I shoot.
douglasf13 wrote
artur5 wrote
Middle viewfinders is a better choice than left side if you're (like me and many others) left sighted. Period. )In using my left eye, my nose kind of gets in the way of controls and my right hand. That being said, it totally depends on the camera design. With my RX1, it works well, because my nose fits in under my right thumb, and my right thumb blocks my right eye, which allows me to keep both eyes open when I shoot.
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:09 AM
p.40 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I've been hoping for a full frame mirrorless camera with the form factor of an compact film SLR like an OM2N or Pentax ME. They are really lovely things to use and work for me as well or better than a Leica M - focusing system aside. If they include a higher resolution and more importantly higher magnification electronic viewfinder then I'm sold. The only drawback for me will be the longer registration distance so my SLR lenses will extend out a bit too far due to adapter length. That leaves a next generation APS-C body with a high res EVF along with a Speedbooster as an appealing alternative, if only for the more compact adapter.
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:42 AM
p.40 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
The ultimate reason for a mirrorless to replace a DSLR isn't mainly the size, as most people seems to believe, but the economy. ( economy of cost and maintenance ) The total depth of a camera + lens combo will be roughly the same for a SLR or a mirrorless ( except with wideangles where there's the possibility of using non retrofocus lenses if there's isn't a mirror in the way).
On the other part, the difference in length between a 'empty' adapter and a Speed.Booster for NEX is only 4mm. in favor of the later, IMHO, not a significant factor for choosing a system over the other. I think that the Speedboosters or turbo lenses still have a place in the market as a cheaper alternative to a real FF mirrorless, but not because the combos are smaller.
On the other part, the difference in length between a 'empty' adapter and a Speed.Booster for NEX is only 4mm. in favor of the later, IMHO, not a significant factor for choosing a system over the other. I think that the Speedboosters or turbo lenses still have a place in the market as a cheaper alternative to a real FF mirrorless, but not because the combos are smaller.
Oct 03, 2013 at 11:52 AM
p.40 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
A second quote: "P.S.: Looks like Sony’s final decision to get for a middle EVF design has been taken to keep the size down. And a source said that the Minolta XD7 viewfinder design is similar to the one from the A7/A7r."
i presume what they mean by this is that evf hump is shaped like the one on an xd-7 (xd-11 in certain markets) since the xd-7 is an slr. that sounds like reasonably good news to me since the xd-7 has a very compact hump (its the camera 2nd from the left):
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6109/6328349792_378dede9b3_o.jpg
it's also somewhat convenient for me since i use one as my primary film camera and continuity is nice.
A second quote: "P.S.: Looks like Sony’s final decision to get for a middle EVF design has been taken to keep the size down. And a source said that the Minolta XD7 viewfinder design is similar to the one from the A7/A7r."
i presume what they mean by this is that evf hump is shaped like the one on an xd-7 (xd-11 in certain markets) since the xd-7 is an slr. that sounds like reasonably good news to me since the xd-7 has a very compact hump (its the camera 2nd from the left):
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6109/6328349792_378dede9b3_o.jpg
it's also somewhat convenient for me since i use one as my primary film camera and continuity is nice.
Oct 03, 2013 at 04:50 PM
p.40 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Continuity going back and forth between an EVF and a classic, non-AF based optical finder? That's a good one! But if you just look at the tops of them from the subject side, I guess you're right.
But if you just look at the tops of them from the subject side, I guess you're right.Oct 03, 2013 at 05:16 PM
p.40 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
artur5 wrote:
The ultimate reason for a mirrorless to replace a DSLR isn't mainly the size, as most people seems to believe, but the economy. ( economy of cost and maintenance )
I think it's more than that. It's the ability to:
- use an OVF that can see outside the frame and is not limited in brightness by half-silvered mirrors
- use an EVF that is not limited in size by anything, see the OMD EM1 VF compared to a 4:3 DSLR
- do away with mirror blackout and no mirror slap
- and, of course, put the VF off centre, because photographers have noses
- also I'm not sure what possibilities open up for frames per second and battery life because you dont have a mirror to flip.
I'm not saying that all cameras going forward should necessarily have all these things, because many users wont even notice, it's more that manufacturers can now offer us options, which is great, and this is what they're doing.
Also what you mentioned about the ability to make small wides is a huge thing, considering half the photographers use 35mm as their main focal length.
The ultimate reason for a mirrorless to replace a DSLR isn't mainly the size, as most people seems to believe, but the economy. ( economy of cost and maintenance )
I think it's more than that. It's the ability to:
- use an OVF that can see outside the frame and is not limited in brightness by half-silvered mirrors
- use an EVF that is not limited in size by anything, see the OMD EM1 VF compared to a 4:3 DSLR
- do away with mirror blackout and no mirror slap
- and, of course, put the VF off centre, because photographers have noses
- also I'm not sure what possibilities open up for frames per second and battery life because you dont have a mirror to flip.
I'm not saying that all cameras going forward should necessarily have all these things, because many users wont even notice, it's more that manufacturers can now offer us options, which is great, and this is what they're doing.
Also what you mentioned about the ability to make small wides is a huge thing, considering half the photographers use 35mm as their main focal length.
Oct 03, 2013 at 05:18 PM
p.40 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Continuity going back and forth between an EVF and a classic, non-AF based optical finder? That's a good one! But if you just look at the tops of them from the subject side, I guess you're right.
i meant physical ergonomics, but it's a lot more continuity visually than going back and forth between xd-11 ovf and a dslr ovf. i borrowed somebodies dslr last week, i'd forgotten how bad the current viewfinders are.
Continuity going back and forth between an EVF and a classic, non-AF based optical finder? That's a good one!
But if you just look at the tops of them from the subject side, I guess you're right.i meant physical ergonomics, but it's a lot more continuity visually than going back and forth between xd-11 ovf and a dslr ovf. i borrowed somebodies dslr last week, i'd forgotten how bad the current viewfinders are.
Oct 03, 2013 at 05:43 PM
p.40 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Come on, Sony. Leak a few photos so we can argue about how you screwed it up instead of arguing about how we think you screwed it up.
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:16 PM
p.40 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:34 PM
p.40 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?
I suspect if you add all of those features the cameras will be larger and more expensive presuming the A7r is going to come in at a price of around $3000.
Rich
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?
I suspect if you add all of those features the cameras will be larger and more expensive presuming the A7r is going to come in at a price of around $3000.
Rich
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:38 PM
p.40 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
I suspect if you add all of those features the cameras will be larger and more expensive presuming the A7r is going to come in at a price of around $3000.
Rich
Recent rumor is the more expensive A7r will be around $2500 euro. I bet the U.S. price is between $2399/2499. The 24MP A7 is rumored to be less than $2000 euro. If that pricing is correct, it would allow for a pro version to be close to that $3000 mark.
Tariq Gibran wrote
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?Rich
Recent rumor is the more expensive A7r will be around $2500 euro. I bet the U.S. price is between $2399/2499. The 24MP A7 is rumored to be less than $2000 euro. If that pricing is correct, it would allow for a pro version to be close to that $3000 mark.
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:43 PM
p.40 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I suspect if you add all of those features the cameras will be larger and more expensive presuming the A7r is going to come in at a price of around $3000.
RichRecent rumor is the more expensive A7r will be around $2500 euro. I bet the U.S. price is between $2399/2499. The 24MP A7 is rumored to be less than $2000 euro. If that pricing is correct, it would allow for a pro version to be close to that $3000 mark.
We will have to wait and see, but if the Euro prices are followed by conversion, the US pricing will be more. In any case, if the "Pro" versions would be coming then I would presume they would be larger, perhaps weather sealed, with IBIS, etc. Besides the pricing question though, would be when would these cameras become available? I do not want to keep putting off the purchase of a camera because I am always waiting for what is next on the horizon. That and my age and health are/may become an issue.
Rich
naturephoto1 wrote
Tariq Gibran wrote
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?Rich
We will have to wait and see, but if the Euro prices are followed by conversion, the US pricing will be more. In any case, if the "Pro" versions would be coming then I would presume they would be larger, perhaps weather sealed, with IBIS, etc. Besides the pricing question though, would be when would these cameras become available? I do not want to keep putting off the purchase of a camera because I am always waiting for what is next on the horizon. That and my age and health are/may become an issue.
Rich
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:51 PM
p.40 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
naturephoto1 wrote:
I suspect if you add all of those features the cameras will be larger and more expensive presuming the A7r is going to come in at a price of around $3000.
RichRecent rumor is the more expensive A7r will be around $2500 euro. I bet the U.S. price is between $2399/2499. The 24MP A7 is rumored to be less than $2000 euro. If that pricing is correct, it would allow for a pro version to be close to that $3000 mark.We will have to wait and see, but if the Euro prices are followed by conversion, the US pricing will be more. In any case, if the "Pro" versions would be coming then I would presume they would be larger, perhaps weather sealed, with IBIS, etc. Besides the pricing question though, would be when would these cameras become available? I do not want to keep putting off the purchase of a camera because I am always waiting for what is next on the horizon. That and my age and health are/may become an issue.
Rich
U.S. price is often cheaper or an exact same number with a $ sign and without any conversion factor.
I'm certainly not advocating waiting. If the image quality is there, I'll probably jump on the A7r.
Tariq Gibran wrote
naturephoto1 wrote
Tariq Gibran wrote
So, what's the A9 going to have vs these A7's given the traditional Sony/ Minolta use of 7 series products vs 9 series products? More pro/ better build quality with weather resistance?Rich
Rich
U.S. price is often cheaper or an exact same number with a $ sign and without any conversion factor.
I'm certainly not advocating waiting. If the image quality is there, I'll probably jump on the A7r.
Oct 03, 2013 at 06:55 PM
p.40 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:15 PM
p.40 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
snapsy wrote:
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
Read it again - it says both cameras are weather sealed.
(Doesn't mean it's true - IBIS yes/ IBIS no/ IBis ?).
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
Read it again - it says both cameras are weather sealed.
(Doesn't mean it's true - IBIS yes/ IBIS no/ IBis ?).
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:45 PM
p.40 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
snapsy wrote:
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
Signs, are definitely pointing to there being no IBIS. If the 28-70mm f4.0 is the kit lens, patent filings indicate that it has OSS.
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-10-04
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
Signs, are definitely pointing to there being no IBIS. If the 28-70mm f4.0 is the kit lens, patent filings indicate that it has OSS.
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-10-04
Oct 03, 2013 at 10:48 PM
p.40 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
jonrock wrote:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/Signs, are definitely pointing to there being no IBIS. If the 28-70mm f4.0 is the kit lens, patent filings indicate that it has OSS.
The fact that the lens mount is just barely wide enough for the full frame sensor without shifting up/down/left/right is the biggest sign that there will be no sensor based image stabilisation!
snapsy wrote
Latest SR says no IBIS or weather sealing.http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-a7-and-a7r-no-features-list/
The fact that the lens mount is just barely wide enough for the full frame sensor without shifting up/down/left/right is the biggest sign that there will be no sensor based image stabilisation!
Oct 04, 2013 at 03:45 AM