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Archive 2013Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
p.31 #1Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Bijltje wrote:
Little strange post. The lenses are not good enough because they are only f/2.8 for the 35mm and only f/1.8 for the 55mm and 85mm.
I think I won't mention the leica elmar's to him. A f/3.8 lens which is also good? Phew...
Yes, those lenses are probably pretty good on a FF camera, it's just the fact that everybody wants fast lenses and think that they must be better.
What I am wondering about is; will the regular adapters work with all kinds of legacy lenses, because of the greater distance to the sensor through that narrow mount. I mean will we get a lot or more vgnetting because of this?
edwardkaraa wrote
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-short-nex-ff-system-hands-on-report-we-need-lenses/I think I won't mention the leica elmar's to him. A f/3.8 lens which is also good? Phew...
Yes, those lenses are probably pretty good on a FF camera, it's just the fact that everybody wants fast lenses and think that they must be better.
What I am wondering about is; will the regular adapters work with all kinds of legacy lenses, because of the greater distance to the sensor through that narrow mount. I mean will we get a lot or more vgnetting because of this?
Sep 12, 2013 at 02:55 PM
p.31 #2Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
Sep 12, 2013 at 03:39 PM
p.31 #3Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I'm anxious to see the size of these lenses. If they could have made them smaller and more perfect if they had made them f/2 instead of f/1.8, I would have preferred that.
Sep 12, 2013 at 04:04 PM
p.31 #4Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
f1.8 is fine if they have great performance near wide open. People just seem to think 1.4 and 1.2 are the magic numbers that turns an "ok" f1.8 lens into "amazing" 
Sep 12, 2013 at 04:26 PM
p.31 #5Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
As far as I'm concerned, I'm very happy that Sony/Zeiss went the moderate aperture way (I would have preferred f/2 for the 35mm though). I don't know what the reviewer experience in photography is, but probably he's not very bright because on one hand he complains about the slow aperture (f/1.8 is quite fast by any standards), then he complains about the large size of the lenses. From the leaked manuals, the 35/2.8 seems quite small, and the 85/1.8 seems about right. Maybe the 55mm is large but we haven't seen any leaks.
Sep 12, 2013 at 10:55 PM
p.31 #6Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
philip_pj wrote:
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
I am looking into picking one of these NEX FF bodies up for use as a street photography and event camera in order to be slightly more stealthy than running around with two massive dSLRs. I understand that most of this forum is dedicated to capturing nature and travel photography, to each their own. However, this misguided sentiment that because you don't need wider aperture primes, then no one needs them continues to irk me. I regularly use my 5D2 at ISO25600 with a 35/1.4 and 85/1.2 wide open and can still barely stop motion at many of the concert venues and ballrooms that I cover events in. While Zeiss may not find the need to produce more than one ZM at <f/2.0, they produce many SLR lenses at 1.4. Leica produces many lenses at 1.4. Clearly there is a market for them. So you can have your lightweight tiny normal aperture primes, I will continue to enjoy using my big hulking wide aperture primes that can suck in as much light as possible.
On topic: I hope Zeiss makes some natively wide aperture primes (50/1.4 and 35/1.4) for this new E-FF mount. It would be phenomenal for quick AF acquisition of street life.
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
I am looking into picking one of these NEX FF bodies up for use as a street photography and event camera in order to be slightly more stealthy than running around with two massive dSLRs. I understand that most of this forum is dedicated to capturing nature and travel photography, to each their own. However, this misguided sentiment that because you don't need wider aperture primes, then no one needs them continues to irk me. I regularly use my 5D2 at ISO25600 with a 35/1.4 and 85/1.2 wide open and can still barely stop motion at many of the concert venues and ballrooms that I cover events in. While Zeiss may not find the need to produce more than one ZM at <f/2.0, they produce many SLR lenses at 1.4. Leica produces many lenses at 1.4. Clearly there is a market for them. So you can have your lightweight tiny normal aperture primes, I will continue to enjoy using my big hulking wide aperture primes that can suck in as much light as possible.
On topic: I hope Zeiss makes some natively wide aperture primes (50/1.4 and 35/1.4) for this new E-FF mount. It would be phenomenal for quick AF acquisition of street life.
Sep 12, 2013 at 11:18 PM
p.31 #7Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
kezeka, it's a trade-off in a small camera, where the lenses simply need to be small - for FF at least. The f2 of the RX1 was hard work for Sony and Zeiss, so you can see their thinking. I have yet to read one complaint about lens speed, that it really needed to be f1.4. The only new f1.4 ZE Zeiss DSLR lens is the huge 35/1.4, the fast Planars are warmed over CY designs, from my reading.
A quick look shows stacks of street shooting, portraits, macro, etc. - not just nature, here at FM alt. Your specialised needs lie at the margin of performance where IQ is heavily traded off for simply 'getting the shot'. You might go well with an adaptor on the fast Leica M's at those FLs as they are very light and small, almost uniquely in fact? It's going to be a small cam, unsuitable to giant fast lenses IMO.
The RX1 sensor is significantly better overall at these ragged edge ISOs than the 5D2 even though this is really Canon territory. Better also for high ISO colour and tone range, you will like one I am sure, as the sensor will be improved.
I hope the irking improves, because that is the situation unfortunately. The other 95% of users can benefit from superior performance in a smaller/lighter package for less money. Zeiss have their priorities right, in my view, but these days you cannot rule anything out.
A quick look shows stacks of street shooting, portraits, macro, etc. - not just nature, here at FM alt. Your specialised needs lie at the margin of performance where IQ is heavily traded off for simply 'getting the shot'. You might go well with an adaptor on the fast Leica M's at those FLs as they are very light and small, almost uniquely in fact? It's going to be a small cam, unsuitable to giant fast lenses IMO.
The RX1 sensor is significantly better overall at these ragged edge ISOs than the 5D2 even though this is really Canon territory. Better also for high ISO colour and tone range, you will like one I am sure, as the sensor will be improved.
I hope the irking improves, because that is the situation unfortunately. The other 95% of users can benefit from superior performance in a smaller/lighter package for less money. Zeiss have their priorities right, in my view, but these days you cannot rule anything out.
Sep 13, 2013 at 01:39 AM
p.31 #8Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
kezeka wrote:
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.I am looking into picking one of these NEX FF bodies up for use as a street photography and event camera in order to be slightly more stealthy than running around with two massive dSLRs. I understand that most of this forum is dedicated to capturing nature and travel photography, to each their own. However, this misguided sentiment that because you don't need wider aperture primes, then no one needs them continues to irk me. I regularly use my 5D2 at ISO25600 with a 35/1.4 and 85/1.2 wide open and can still barely stop motion at many of the concert...Show more →
I'll let you know how my 35/1.2 performs when the FF nex arrives
philip_pj wrote
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
I'll let you know how my 35/1.2 performs when the FF nex arrives
Sep 13, 2013 at 01:51 AM
p.31 #9Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
kezeka wrote:
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.I am looking into picking one of these NEX FF bodies up for use as a street photography and event camera in order to be slightly more stealthy than running around with two massive dSLRs. I understand that most of this forum is dedicated to capturing nature and travel photography, to each their own. However, this misguided sentiment that because you don't need wider aperture primes, then no one needs them continues to irk me. I regularly use my 5D2 at ISO25600 with a 35/1.4 and 85/1.2 wide open and can still barely stop motion at many of the concert...Show more →
I have shot many concerts and ballroom events in the past at iso 1600 and f/2.8 without any problem. I would rather have an excellent f/2 or f/2.8 lens that performs perfectly wide open than a compromised f/1.4 or f/1.2.
philip_pj wrote
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
I have shot many concerts and ballroom events in the past at iso 1600 and f/2.8 without any problem. I would rather have an excellent f/2 or f/2.8 lens that performs perfectly wide open than a compromised f/1.4 or f/1.2.
Sep 13, 2013 at 02:07 AM
p.31 #10Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
edwardkaraa wrote:
I have shot many concerts and ballroom events in the past at iso 1600 and f/2.8 without any problem. I would rather have an excellent f/2 or f/2.8 lens that performs perfectly wide open than a compromised f/1.4 or f/1.2.
you must go to different concerts and ballroom events than me. i can't even get proper exposure in my living room at f/2.8 iso 1600.
i am glad to hear sony/zeiss is keeping things small though. i think that is more important for this type of camera. leave fast lenses to leica who's better at keeping things small, saves space by throwing out AF, and makes prettier rendering fast lenses (for the most part).
I have shot many concerts and ballroom events in the past at iso 1600 and f/2.8 without any problem. I would rather have an excellent f/2 or f/2.8 lens that performs perfectly wide open than a compromised f/1.4 or f/1.2.
you must go to different concerts and ballroom events than me. i can't even get proper exposure in my living room at f/2.8 iso 1600.
i am glad to hear sony/zeiss is keeping things small though. i think that is more important for this type of camera. leave fast lenses to leica who's better at keeping things small, saves space by throwing out AF, and makes prettier rendering fast lenses (for the most part).
Sep 13, 2013 at 03:04 AM
p.31 #11Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
sebboh wrote:
you must go to different concerts and ballroom events than me. i can't even get proper exposure in my living room at f/2.8 iso 1600.
I would be very surprised if we did go to the same concerts
Normally I can shoot at f/2 to f/2.8, 1/125 to 1/500 in average during concerts, as for ballrooms, around f/2.8 1/60 or 1/30 in worst cases. As for my living room, I normally shoot 1/60 f/2.8 without any problem
edwardkaraa wrote
I have shot many concerts and ballroom events in the past at iso 1600 and f/2.8 without any problem. I would rather have an excellent f/2 or f/2.8 lens that performs perfectly wide open than a compromised f/1.4 or f/1.2.I would be very surprised if we did go to the same concerts
Normally I can shoot at f/2 to f/2.8, 1/125 to 1/500 in average during concerts, as for ballrooms, around f/2.8 1/60 or 1/30 in worst cases. As for my living room, I normally shoot 1/60 f/2.8 without any problem
Sep 13, 2013 at 03:32 AM
p.31 #12Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
My experience with concerts (rock-indie in medium to large venues) Is that I can and often use f3.5-f5.6 with stage lighting between iso 800-3200 getting me shutter speeds between 250th and 500th. Ballrooms are a different matter all together, mostly because they are dark AND you usually want DOF. At least I do as an events guy.
Due to the contrast, my best experience with my nex7 came with using the voightlander 90mm f3.5 wide open. I also took nice shots with my 50mm f1.1 but I was shooting between f2.2 and f3.5, as shots were just more biting as compared to 1.1.
Due to the contrast, my best experience with my nex7 came with using the voightlander 90mm f3.5 wide open. I also took nice shots with my 50mm f1.1 but I was shooting between f2.2 and f3.5, as shots were just more biting as compared to 1.1.
Sep 13, 2013 at 04:07 AM
p.31 #13Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Bijltje wrote:
Little strange post. The lenses are not good enough because they are only f/2.8 for the 35mm and only f/1.8 for the 55mm and 85mm.
I think I won't mention the leica elmar's to him. A f/3.8 lens which is also good? Phew...
I think the comments are mostly directed at the f/2.8 lens, to be honest a lot of people here were hoping for f/2. For many the advantage of a FF mirrorless (apart from compatibility with legacy lenses) is high quality widish aperture shooting in a size larger than other mirrorless offerings but much smaller than a FF DSLR. A FF mirrorless with small f/2.8 lenses will produce very sharp images in a small package but with less subject isolation (than say a Fuji X + 23mm f/1.4).
sflxn wrote:
It is a very strange post. Compact lenses or fast lenses. Pick one.
The problem is that a mirrorless full frame camera at least on paper offered the promise of both, by virtue of ultra compact symmetrical lens designs like you found on rangefinders. Unfortunately digital sensors simply can't cope with oblique incidence angles (yet, when the 35mm BSI or organic sensor turns up then things will get interesting).
Edited on Sep 13, 2013 at 06:22 AM · View previous versions
Little strange post. The lenses are not good enough because they are only f/2.8 for the 35mm and only f/1.8 for the 55mm and 85mm.
I think I won't mention the leica elmar's to him. A f/3.8 lens which is also good? Phew...
I think the comments are mostly directed at the f/2.8 lens, to be honest a lot of people here were hoping for f/2. For many the advantage of a FF mirrorless (apart from compatibility with legacy lenses) is high quality widish aperture shooting in a size larger than other mirrorless offerings but much smaller than a FF DSLR. A FF mirrorless with small f/2.8 lenses will produce very sharp images in a small package but with less subject isolation (than say a Fuji X + 23mm f/1.4).
sflxn wrote:
It is a very strange post. Compact lenses or fast lenses. Pick one.
The problem is that a mirrorless full frame camera at least on paper offered the promise of both, by virtue of ultra compact symmetrical lens designs like you found on rangefinders. Unfortunately digital sensors simply can't cope with oblique incidence angles (yet, when the 35mm BSI or organic sensor turns up then things will get interesting).
Edited on Sep 13, 2013 at 06:22 AM · View previous versions
Sep 13, 2013 at 04:37 AM
p.31 #14Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Yes, historically, very reasonably sized 35/2 lenses have always been around and the 2.8 versions often represented the budget/ cheaper option, even with AF. The 35/2.8 for the FF NEX had better perform outstandingly wide open (no difference than stopped down two stops for instance) to even be considered by some. I'm skeptical that will be the case but I guess we will see.
Sep 13, 2013 at 04:44 AM
p.31 #15Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I REALLY need to pick up another Voigtlander 35/1.4 MC. I LOVED that lens on film, in large part for the size and build, but also really liked the look. Hopefully it'll be awesome on NEXFF as well.
Sep 13, 2013 at 05:55 AM
p.31 #16Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
kezeka wrote:
Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.I am looking into picking one of these NEX FF bodies up for use as a street photography and event camera in order to be slightly more stealthy than running around with two massive dSLRs. I understand that most of this forum is dedicated to capturing nature and travel photography, to each their own. However, this misguided sentiment that because you don't need wider aperture primes, then no one needs them continues to irk me. I regularly use my 5D2 at ISO25600 with a 35/1.4 and 85/1.2 wide open and can still barely stop motion at many of the concert...Show more →
Zeiss already makes a line of hulking wider-aperture primes that will likely AF and perform the same as native on
the Sony FF-NEX. It's the ZA alpha-mount line. What would be the advantage in duplicating those lenses for e-mount if they're going to be large?
philip_pj wrote
The lens speed comment is very common among the less knowledgable. Had a quick look through the ZM range just now, how many faster than f2 lenses are in that illustrious line? One, and that is a 50mm.Zooms too big? How about humouring people with the specifics - rulers work well.
His source seems less credible for it. Him too...write to Sony, lol. Hire a fanboy for lens design instructions, haha.
Zeiss already makes a line of hulking wider-aperture primes that will likely AF and perform the same as native on
the Sony FF-NEX. It's the ZA alpha-mount line. What would be the advantage in duplicating those lenses for e-mount if they're going to be large?
Sep 13, 2013 at 06:51 AM
p.31 #17Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
The lenses are too large. The lenses are too slow.
Since Sony can't mold the laws of physics to their liking, and appear to be dedicated to the limitations of the e-mount, I'm thinking they can't win this one. if I were banking on system lenses, I'd just hope they are good.
Since Sony can't mold the laws of physics to their liking, and appear to be dedicated to the limitations of the e-mount, I'm thinking they can't win this one. if I were banking on system lenses, I'd just hope they are good.
Sep 13, 2013 at 10:44 AM
p.31 #18Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
I was under the impression that because the distance between the sensor and the lens is so small in the NEX series that the lenses wouldn't need nearly as much length and volume and therefore could approach leica m lux ASPH sizes. Hell, at this point the only reason I want a NEXFF is to be able to put a leica m 50/1.4 ASPH on it and go to town with a small package that pulls plenty of light in. I can manage manually focusing if that keeps the size down. The point is, leica can manufacture lenses that are small with a large aperture, why can't Sony? I don't want an RX1 with a fixed slower lens. I am however prepared to shell out for an M competitor that can successfully use leica M lenses on a full frame sensor.
I don't know what concerts you are covering that have that much light. It is rare that I see ISO3200 with even my f/1.4 primes at even 1/100. Much less my 70-200 2.8. Even at large music festivals like voodoo fest, jazz fest, and Austin city limits fest where the stages have relatively good lighting.
I don't know what concerts you are covering that have that much light. It is rare that I see ISO3200 with even my f/1.4 primes at even 1/100. Much less my 70-200 2.8. Even at large music festivals like voodoo fest, jazz fest, and Austin city limits fest where the stages have relatively good lighting.
Sep 13, 2013 at 11:44 AM
p.31 #19Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Lenses can be made fast & small with outstanding image quality. The tradeoff is that very precise and costly manufacturing techniques must be used and there's a risk of poor corner performance unless the sensor can handle the incidence angles. We call these lenses Leica.
The RX1 can handle the incidence angles because it's a one-trick pony. Put its sensor behind a lens with a longer exit pupil distance and you'll get poor corner performance.
The RX1 can handle the incidence angles because it's a one-trick pony. Put its sensor behind a lens with a longer exit pupil distance and you'll get poor corner performance.
Sep 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM
p.31 #20Our prayers have been answered: Nex-FF in 2 months
Re: lighting
I am in Austria, stage lighting definitely changes from region to region. I definitely have some very dark shots from punk shows in the US.
As far as size, I don't think anyone will have any problems with 50mm, as far as I remember even the 35mm f1.2 was ok on the VG900 (though it is hardly small). The problems start when you try to go wider than 35mm.
I am in Austria, stage lighting definitely changes from region to region. I definitely have some very dark shots from punk shows in the US.
As far as size, I don't think anyone will have any problems with 50mm, as far as I remember even the 35mm f1.2 was ok on the VG900 (though it is hardly small). The problems start when you try to go wider than 35mm.
Sep 13, 2013 at 11:56 AM