p.9 #1 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
n0b0 wrote:
Correction. A camera that I really want but forced to NOT buy.
You whiners just keep outdoing yourselves!
Someone's putting a gun to your head, and saying, "You may NOT buy this camera!"
Like, you can't take good photos with the camera you have now? You couldn't take better photos with the camera they're "forcing [you] NOT to buy"? And whose fault is that?
Sheesh; perhaps I was optimistic with my use of the term "adults."
p.9 #2 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Imagemaster wrote:
Well I just happen not to understand your lack of logic. So what if the camera's specs are your problem? Who cares? Certainly not Canon. It is simply another model and not necessarily a replacement or improvement of other models. It has no crippled features. It is certainly not Canon's fault that you can't find a model that suits your needs. Nearly everyone else can.
Perhaps you can get them to custom-build a model just for you. Otherwise, just keep up your bitching if that makes you happy.
Oh really? You think including a level that only works on ONE axis is not crippled? You tell me, what good is that one axis level going to do for anyone who wants to use it? If that's the kind of logic you have, I'm glad I'm lacking it.
I will keep bitching, I don't need you to tell me that... But you know what'll make me happy? You to get off my back. There are plenty of other people bitching about it, why don't you go harass them instead, hmm?
p.9 #3 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
n0b0 wrote:
Oh really? You think including a level that only works on ONE axis is not crippled? You tell me, what good is that one axis level going to do for anyone who wants to use it? If that's the kind of logic you have, I'm glad I'm lacking it.
I will keep bitching, I don't need you to tell me that... But you know what'll make me happy? You to get off my back. There are plenty of other people bitching about it, why don't you go harass them instead, hmm?
You are right, I don't need to read posts from someone whining about a camera they have not even used or that they don't want. I have more intelligent posts to read. Congrats, you are now on my HIDE ME list.
p.9 #4 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
You whiners just keep outdoing yourselves!
Someone's putting a gun to your head, and saying, "You may NOT buy this camera!"
Like, you can't take good photos with the camera you have now? You couldn't take better photos with the camera they're "forcing [you] NOT to buy"? And whose fault is that?
Sheesh; perhaps I was optimistic with my use of the term "adults."
!! So you think you can read my mind aye? Who said I want a full frame camera so I can take better photos anyway? Have you ever thought that maybe I want to use it for more specific reasons like UWA and shallow DOF?
I just love how you bought a 5D3 and then whinge about others whom are looking for a cheaper alternative that aren't crippled. I bet you if 5D3 had the same AF as 5D2, you along with many others here would be bitching about it as well, just as others bitched about the 5D2 AF when it came out, comparing it to the D700.
You are right, I don't need to read posts from someone whining about a camera they have not even used or that they don't want. I have more intelligent posts to read. Congrats, you are now on my HIDE ME list.
Oh no... my heart is broken. I just love how you started this argument with me when all I did was bitch about a camera along with others and then put me on your hide list when you can't handle the heat. That's rich. lol
p.9 #5 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
n0b0 wrote: !! So you think you can read my mind aye? Who said I want a full frame camera so I can take better photos anyway? Have you ever thought that maybe I want to use it for more specific reasons like UWA and shallow DOF?
I just love how you bought a 5D3 and then whinge about others whom are looking for a cheaper alternative that aren't crippled. I bet you if 5D3 had the same AF as 5D2, you along with many others here would be bitching about it as well, just as others bitched about the 5D2 AF when it came out, comparing it to the D700.
Where to start (we all love a train wreck, and this post is a classic!).
No, I don't think I can read your mind; heck, to even try is to assume a fact not in evidence.
So, you don't care about taking "better photos," but you do care about "UWA and shallow depth of field." And these aren't "better photos" why?
If the 5D3 didn't have vastly improved AF over the 5D2, I would have (drum roll, here; wait for it) NOT BOUGHT THE 5D3!!!!! Imagine that; a product that doesn't interest me results only in my ignoring the product, rather than impotently and endlessly bitching about it. What a concept!
You somehow think that bitching endlessly about a camera you have no interest in buying makes sense. Go figure.
p.9 #6 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
The only thing "crippled" here is the intellect of posters whining about a camera because they think Canon owes them some feature they think they want... just shut up and go buy some other toy to play with.
p.9 #7 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Seems there are two types of people in this thread - those who have the common sense to compare the specs/pricing of two competing cameras bodies and easily identify the dud......and those who must sleep with their canon gear.
Calm down guys don't get so defensive, no one is trying to sleep with your camera. A camera to us is just an electronic tool, not a soul mate...
p.9 #8 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
Wow! As usual, Imagemaster is right!
Where to start (we all love a train wreck, and this post is a classic!).
No, I don't think I can read your mind; heck, to even try is to assume a fact not in evidence.
So, you don't care about taking "better photos," but you do care about "UWA and shallow depth of field." And these aren't "better photos" why?
If the 5D3 didn't have vastly improved AF over the 5D2, I would have (drum roll, here; wait for it) NOT BOUGHT THE 5D3!!!!! Imagine that; a product that doesn't interest me results only in my ignoring the product, rather than impotently and endlessly bitching about it. What a concept!
You somehow think that bitching endlessly about a camera you have no interest in buying makes sense. Go figure. ...Show more →
You and the some others must've read the title of this thread and realised that it'll be full of complaints, and yet here you are attacking people whom are complaining about the camera. Go figure.
p.9 #9 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
From reading the interview, I get Canon's real bread and butter is in there lenses they sell, thus the increase $$ on all there newer lenses. They know this, and that the masses are apt to buy more lenses.
Bodies are transitional, but lenses are collected and kept. I beleive Mo commented they sold 1 million in a year. Thats why there lenses are top priority, and bodies always leaving one wanting more. At least this is what I get from reading comments from various forumographers.
p.9 #10 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
n0b0 wrote:
You and the some others must've read the title of this thread and realised that it'll be full of complaints, and yet here you are attacking people whom are complaining about the camera. Go figure.
The 6D specs are just right for me. Wished the pricing was below US$2000, but I am OK with it. AF crippling? After going from one camera to another, I have come full circle to realize I am happy with a single super accurate AF point... assuming the 6D delivers here.
Like I have said many times before, the D600/D7000 cross AF sensors are ALL clustered around the 3x3 block in the center. What use is that? In my books, this is not any better than the single cross AF point on the 5Dc/5D2/6d.
If Canon really does not care about AF accuracy, then the 6D won't be getting the same AF microadjustment like the 5D3. On the other hand, the D600 does NOT have any AF adjustment. Wanna bitch about AF? I'll whine about the D600 AF features in the Nikon forum.
p.9 #11 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
I cannot think of any manufacturer who offers several models of an item be it a car, computer, washing machine, kettle, audio system, power tool, etc etc who is not guilty of some form of "crippling". One decides how much one is willing to pay, makes an inormed choice & lives with the consequences. Nikon has its problems in design, production & servicing that I know of through research. Canon is not alone in this area. On the whole I am pleased with the Canon line up of bodies & lenses at their various price points & I usually purchase "tools" in a 4 year cycle expecting to pay a liile more for the upgraded model (10-15%). If I don't like an items specs I find a compromise or spend my cash on something else.
Since 2008 my cost to clients has gone up 20-45% for differing services without any form of complaint for an essentially unchanged service. At least Canon offers, in the main, an improved product.
C'est la vie!
p.9 #12 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
n0b0 wrote:
You and the some others must've read the title of this thread and realised that it'll be full of complaints, and yet here you are attacking people whom are complaining about the camera. Go figure.
Wow, what a comeback! I feel utterly skewered; or not....
See, the signal (that's useful threads/posts) on this subforum has been utterly drowned by the noise of people complaining about Canon. So the principal way to have fun on this subforum now is to mock the people who think that it somehow makes sense to whine about a product they don't like, rather than just ignoring it. So we do.
And you don't disappoint, with these hilariously fractured responses.
p.9 #13 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
molson wrote:
The only thing "crippled" here is the intellect of posters whining about a camera because they think Canon owes them some feature they think they want... just shut up and go buy some other toy to play with.
p.9 #14 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
thw2 wrote:
The 6D specs are just right for me. Wished the pricing was below US$2000, but I am OK with it. AF crippling? After going from one camera to another, I have come full circle to realize I am happy with a single super accurate AF point... assuming the 6D delivers here.
Like I have said many times before, the D600/D7000 cross AF sensors are ALL clustered around the 3x3 block in the center. What use is that? In my books, this is not any better than the single cross AF point on the 5Dc/5D2/6d.
If Canon really does not care about AF accuracy, then the 6D won't be getting the same AF microadjustment like the 5D3. On the other hand, the D600 does NOT have any AF adjustment. Wanna bitch about AF? I'll whine about the D600 AF features in the Nikon forum. ...Show more →
I've no experience with the D7000, but I own a D700. Its cross-type sensors are clustered in a center-block too - but nevertheless, there are 15 of them, as opposed to the 1 (plus 6 assist points in servo mode) on the 5D2. The difference is, the D700 has 51 points total, unlike the 9 on the 5D2 (or 11 on the forthcoming 6D). Any one of those points can be selected; the surrounding points can be used as assist points for any individual point you choose; spot metering can be linked to any AF point; etc. In so many ways, the D700 AF system is more flexible than that of the 5D2. In practice, I found the D700 outer points to be more reliable than those of the 5D2, even though they were also single-orientation. The 5D3 AF point layout is much like that of the D700, only better: all the points are cross-type. Too bad Canon didn't include spot-metering linked to any AF point...
Now Canon comes along with the 6D, and offers what looks to be an AF system barely better - if that - than that of the 5D2. Nikon is using a system similar to the one offered on the D7000. The least we should get out of Canon, in a $2100 camera body, is the already developed, already proven system of the 7D. What term, other than "crippling," can one use to describe Canon's decision to leave out a better AF system they've already had in place for several years on a much less expensive camera?
The D600 does have AF adjustment. The confusion comes in from the different terminology Nikon uses to describe the function.
Call it bitching or whining if you like: I think consumers and potential consumers - especially those for whom the cost of switching systems is high due to an existing collection of lenses - have the right and obligation to let a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to contemporary standards.
p.9 #15 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Jim Levitt wrote:
Call it bitching or whining if you like: I think consumers and potential consumers - especially those for whom the cost of switching systems is high due to an existing collection of lenses - have the right and obligation to let a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to contemporary standards.
Are you suggesting that practically illiterate bitching on an internet forum is an effective form of letting a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to a contemporary standard?
Nonsense!
If the camera doesn't find a comfortable place in the marketplace, it will fail. That will give Canon all the feedback it needs. Conversely, if the product sells adequately (however Canon defines that), do you really think that Canon cares about a few malcontents on an internet forum?
When was the last time a Canon DSLR failed in the market place? Perhaps Canon knows more about designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling cameras than whiners on internet forums. What a concept!
It may make people feel good to let off steam when they're disappointed by a product offering, but bitching endlessly about it (as they do here, still occasionally bitching about the very-successful 5d2, and often whining about some imagined shortcomings with the very successful 5D3), rather than just ignoring it makes no economic (or real-world) sense.
p.9 #16 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Jim Levitt wrote:
... I think consumers and potential consumers - especially those for whom the cost of switching systems is high due to an existing collection of lenses - have the right and obligation to let a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to contemporary standards.
I let manufacturers know when their offerings are up to my contemporary standards by buying their offerings. Everything else is in the noise...
p.9 #17 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Jim Levitt wrote:
I've no experience with the D7000, but I own a D700. Its cross-type sensors are clustered in a center-block too - but nevertheless, there are 15 of them, as opposed to the 1 (plus 6 assist points in servo mode) on the 5D2. The difference is, the D700 has 51 points total, unlike the 9 on the 5D2 (or 11 on the forthcoming 6D). Any one of those points can be selected; the surrounding points can be used as assist points for any individual point you choose; spot metering can be linked to any AF point; etc. In so many ways, the D700 AF system is more flexible than that of the 5D2. In practice, I found the D700 outer points to be more reliable than those of the 5D2, even though they were also single-orientation. The 5D3 AF point layout is much like that of the D700, only better: all the points are cross-type. Too bad Canon didn't include spot-metering linked to any AF point...
Now Canon comes along with the 6D, and offers what looks to be an AF system barely better - if that - than that of the 5D2. Nikon is using a system similar to the one offered on the D7000. The least we should get out of Canon, in a $2100 camera body, is the already developed, already proven system of the 7D. What term, other than "crippling," can one use to describe Canon's decision to leave out a better AF system they've already had in place for several years on a much less expensive camera?
The D600 does have AF adjustment. The confusion comes in from the different terminology Nikon uses to describe the function.
Call it bitching or whining if you like: I think consumers and potential consumers - especially those for whom the cost of switching systems is high due to an existing collection of lenses - have the right and obligation to let a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to contemporary standards....Show more →
p.9 #18 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
Are you suggesting that practically illiterate bitching on an internet forum is an effective form of letting a manufacturer know when its offerings are not up to a contemporary standard?
Nonsense!
If the camera doesn't find a comfortable place in the marketplace, it will fail. That will give Canon all the feedback it needs. Conversely, if the product sells adequately (however Canon defines that), do you really think that Canon cares about a few malcontents on an internet forum?
When was the last time a Canon DSLR failed in the market place? Perhaps Canon knows more about designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling cameras than whiners on internet forums. What a concept!
It may make people feel good to let off steam when they're disappointed by a product offering, but bitching endlessly about it (as they do here, still occasionally bitching about the very-successful 5d2, and often whining about some imagined shortcomings with the very successful 5D3), rather than just ignoring it makes no economic (or real-world) sense....Show more →
StarNut: let's just say that you and I take a different approach. We're all here on a gear forum, talking about how two particular cameras please or don't please us. Your attitude seems to be "take it or leave it, buy it or don't." Others of us think it's worth spending a few minutes banging away on a keyboard, expressing our opinion in the hope - vain, or not, we don't know - that somehow Canon's marketing and design crew will get some sense of what a segment of their user base thinks.
You think it's "practically illiterate bitching," an ad hominem insult that generates no light. Why then do you spend any time here?
In the competition between the 6D and the D600, I expect Canon to come out on the short end of the stick. If they don't, it'll show their marketing is better than their design - which is not something we photographers ought to be happy about.
p.9 #19 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Jim Levitt wrote:
In the competition between the 6D and the D600, I expect Canon to come out on the short end of the stick.
Unless Canon drops the price by a couple of hundreds...
Sep 23, 2012 at 01:36 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.9 #20 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
:
That's what I have been reading here with every Canon camera release in the past 3-4 years. But Canon have been selling really good with all those bodies before. And nearly all people in this forum that have been writing every week about how much better the Nikon bodies are, still shoot with their Canon bodies. And some of them even buy new Canon bodies and keep on complaining
There are so much more important things when you decide what system/brand you gonna use, than the latest body.
!! So you think you can read my mind aye? Who said I want a full frame camera so I can take better photos anyway? Have you ever thought that maybe I want to use it for more specific reasons like UWA and shallow DOF?
