p.2 #1 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
This after the Hasselblad's marketing guys really putting his foot on it trying to defend the new uglyblad. Anyone think that companies higher echelons should only ever be allowed out in public with a wide strip of gaffer over their cake holes?
p.2 #2 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
+1 The 6D is not a 5D3 for less coin!
The 6D is a step to FF from a rebel series camera.
If you already have a 60D or 7D you probably value high FPS and better AF, Canon wants you to go for a 5D3 or better when moving to FF.
For a rebel shooter the attributes above probably aren't required for the shooting one does. If they were important then the upgrade to 60 or 7D would have already been contemplated/made.
The 6D specs are an improvement over the rebel bodies. Resolution, High ISO, fps, weather sealed, more AF points with better low light capability, better screen, Wifi, gps.
Not much of an increase in physical size.
The only downside is the loss of pop-up flash.
Canon ranks their bodies on their webpage and the 6D is below a 7D. to me this suggests that it's only the cost of sensor manufacture that is making the 6D cost more than a 7D. Feature wise the 7D is still a better camera.
p.2 #3 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Well if 6D is a FF for Rebel users, then why not make a 650D with FF sensor (sans EF-S, though), give it a 7D pricepoint and "9D" moniker? I think that take off much better.
p.2 #4 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
WOW! Dudes and Dudets, they make cameras for different segments. Get the 1, 2, 3, etc cameras that fit YOUR needs. This is like complaining that a printer that only prints up to size 8x10 is crippled because it can't print 11x17.
These cameras are not crippled; that's really a very stupid statement. For those who sell your work in different packages why do you do it? Is the bottom level package or product crap or is it for those who want something not so grande?
How critical is focus on your smartphone? How critical is focus on your P&S? It's important, BUT it's something you can deal with for what it is. If you're foolish enough to pull out a 6D to *try* to shoot an indoor pro sport the camera isn't what's crippled, it's the so called photographer. It aint for that!
p.2 #5 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
cordellwillis wrote:
WOW! Dudes and Dudets, they make cameras for different segments. Get the 1, 2, 3, etc cameras that fit YOUR needs. This is like complaining that a printer that only prints up to size 8x10 is crippled because it can't print 11x17.
These cameras are not crippled; that's really a very stupid statement. For those who sell your work in different packages why do you do it? Is the bottom level package or product crap or is it for those who want something not so grande?
How critical is focus on your smartphone? How critical is focus on your P&S?
Umm, what is the minimum depth of field on those? Something between two yards from you and the infinity? Such things get critical focus inherently. Now, focusing that $100 50/1.8 wide open is a different thing...
It's important, BUT it's something you can deal with for what it is. If you're foolish enough to pull out a 6D to *try* to shoot an indoor pro sport the camera isn't what's crippled, it's the so called photographer. It aint for that!
Yeah, a sad state of affairs. $2000 camera ain't up to it, whereas $1500 camera (7D) should be.
p.2 #8 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
MintMar wrote:
How do you know they have a camera I want? They didn't last time I looked. There was no D700 with EF mount yet.
Well then, we can be absolutely sure that the the 6D was never intended to be marketed to you and that you would never buy in the 6D or D600 camera tier.
p.2 #10 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
cordellwillis wrote:
WOW! Dudes and Dudets, they make cameras for different segments. Get the 1, 2, 3, etc cameras that fit YOUR needs. This is like complaining that a printer that only prints up to size 8x10 is crippled because it can't print 11x17.
These cameras are not crippled; that's really a very stupid statement. For those who sell your work in different packages why do you do it? Is the bottom level package or product crap or is it for those who want something not so grande?
p.2 #12 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
In isolation there is probably nothing wrong with a nice new "affordable" FF body. Unfortunately then there's the D600 which out speccs the 6D quite considerably at possibly a very similar price point and more than likely has a superior (mp aside) sensor too. Anyone using an APS-c EOS body is probably better off buying the D600 as their first FF body. IMhO Canon have got the spec for the 6D a bit wrong especially if they're aiming at broadly the same market as the D600 is aimed at.
p.2 #13 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
All I can say that is my choices are expanding but nothing is tempting. Maybe Canon are right and there are specific niches of FF users that are more attuned to great AF at a price (5D3) and if you don’t want to pay that price you get a 6D.
My personal view is that if the 5D3 was in the $2500 range, I’d buy one now. It’s not so I will stick with my 3 year-old 5D2. Until decent AF on a 5 series size camera with 6FPS at a price similar to what I paid for my 5D2 comes along, my money is staying with me.
Canon are trying to buck a trend. We are all used to major pieces of electronic equipment having generational version changes that are usually more advanced and cheaper or at the very least, the same price.
Having new version that costs 40% more, well besides pros and richer hobbyists, it’s going to be a tough sell.
Me, I can wait. My 5D2 does the job. I’m not doing something silly like selling all my nice glass and starting again with Nikon. That looks too labour intensive and I’d be on the wrong end of two markets, resale and new.
Same on the 24-70 II. Sure it’s super sharp but it’s still 2.8 and has no IS.
I’ll stick with my primes and the 24-105. I already have them and I can save the $3000 with taxes that I’d pay for the new zoom.
All Canon is doing is making a case for new kit that my beautiful and frugal wife won’t buy. We are thinking of a nice tent trailer instead.
p.2 #14 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
I mean the features that the Camera Manufacturer's put on a DSLR or decide to leave out are basically marketing and or technological decisions. When you know they have the technology, even on cameras with lower price points then its pretty obvious it was just a marketing decision.
I mean, look at Nikon, they could have made the D800 with just 24mp and be fine, they also did not have to make the D800E, but they did. Now that the D600 is out, it all makes sense, marketing wise. And technology wise too since Nikon put their best sensor out there in the D800/E. So most customers dont feel short changed sorta speak.
Canon on the other hand. Did put out most of their best stuff on the 5D3. But, the fact that the D800 is there, at $500 lower price, doesnt sit well with most.
Same with the 1DX, great camera, but every single 1D was less than $5000 when released, this one almost approaches 1DS price, and we all know its no 1DS. Again. Most consumers dont feel good about spending the money even if they end up buying the camera.
Now, with the 6D, Canon again, releases a camera with some good technology (gps/wifi) but obviously cripples it in other aspects. Again, if the D600 did not exist I think most would not criticize the 6D as much. But it does. Although, since the 6D is an in between model, it might do well being its at a much lower price point than the 5D3 IF the performance tests out.
What makes little sense business wise, at least until we figure out if the 6D sensor performs differently or not, is why the need for three different full frame sensors so close in Resolution. Nikon's 16mp-24mp-36mp spread makes much more sense.
p.2 #15 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Beni wrote:
There are 3 technical elements that make up a photo. Shutter, Aperture and focus. Been like that since the very first camera and is as true today. To say that any of them is not crucial or critical is to show that you are designing the cameras for the shareholders bottom line and not for photographers.
Many more than "3" technical elements, and there are many ways of achieving focus. Also, there are many kinds of focusing scenarios and needs.
The 6D is not primarily going to be marketed to snapshooters who want to make snapshots of their dogs and kids running around. It is obviously meant more for enthusiasts who want image quality (that full-frame provides compared to crop-factors) such as landscape, travel photos, and portraits.
p.2 #16 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Why is this issue brought up every time Canon releases a new camera. The autofocus of the 6D isn't crippled; the camera is designed to fit into Canon's product lineup and meet the needs of the target market.
If the 6D doesn't have features you want/need, then you're not the target market.
Are they crippling the 6D because is lacks better weather sealing , more FPS, built in flash, dual card slots, articulating LCD, a joystick, etc? No, Canon is choosing features to ensure the camera comes in at a certain price point and still provides value to the targeted customer.
Canon is for-profit business and Canon feels that the currently camera lineup and each camera's placement in that lineup is the best way to maximize profit.
Somebody else wrote an equally false premise (quoted below) but with a different meaning from what you wrote ("Well if 6D is a FF for Rebel users"). Both yours and their premises are straw men that you proceed to knock down.
Krasmar wrote:
Well, if 6D is supposed to be beefed up Rebel,
p.2 #18 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
jeraldcook wrote:
Why is this issue brought up every time Canon releases a new camera.
Honestly, I don't remember this being brought up when some 1D was released, 7D released or 5D3 released. It's a bit exaggerated.
Mostly it's brought up because Canon mostly have a history record of playing Mr. Scrooge of the AF department in the digital SLRs.
The autofocus of the 6D isn't crippled; the camera is designed to fit into Canon's product lineup and meet the needs of the target market.
If the 6D doesn't have features you want/need, then you're not the target market.
Are they crippling the 6D because is lacks better weather sealing , more FPS, built in flash, dual card slots, articulating LCD, a joystick, etc? No, Canon is choosing features to ensure the camera comes in at a certain price point and still provides value to the targeted customer.
Canon is for-profit business and Canon feels that the currently camera lineup and each camera's placement in that lineup is the best way to maximize profit....Show more →
p.2 #19 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
The Canon rep was an exec? Then he understands market share, segmentation, etc and doesn't see this as a photographer. No business wants one product to canabalize sales of another product, so yes, Canon, and every other corporation, will design product so it does not take away from their other products sales.
I shoot Canon, but I think Nikon is the real game in town. However, switching with a lot of glass is tough... so we wait it out. I have no love for either corporation, but if I were buying into a system today, I'd definately go Nikon. Right now they have a rather sizable lead.
Somebody else wrote an equally false premise (quoted below) but with a different meaning from what you wrote ("Well if 6D is a FF for Rebel users"). Both yours and their premises are straw men that you proceed to knock down.
