Guys, please, explain this: why Pentax medium format cameras are so great and on the other hand products for the mass market are the epitome of idiocy? Who rules that stupid philosophy in the Pentax team?
1. The K-5 was already very very small for a dSLR and this is a good deal smaller.
2. It's got more natively compatible AF lenses than any other mirrorless system out there.
3. It's got the K-5's fantastic sensor at a much lower price (though not as low as the 5N).
4. It's got a new processing engine that may be a nice jump over what's found in the K-5/K-r.
5. It's got contrast AF, which will no doubt be more accurate and possibly quicker than what's in Pentax's dSLRs.
On top of that the K01 is priced pretty aggressively, has the Shake Reduction and focus peaking - great for manual glass - and for video shooters full manual control, variable frame rates and a mic input according to the Pentax forum. It ticks some of the boxes the Nex7 (lenses, SR and a real hotshoe) and Xpro1 (lenses, video controls, flash, peaking) miss - add a loupe and you have a 3" EVF.
Its intriguing, especially at $749 for the body or $999 for a two lens kit.
Edit: forgot to mention built in time lapse capabilities
Technician wrote:
Guys, please, explain this: why Pentax medium format cameras are so great and on the other hand products for the mass market are the epitome of idiocy? Who rules that stupid philosophy in the Pentax team?
Not sure where you're going with this. The K-5 is the best APS-C dSLR I've ever used, and the K-x and K20D I've also owned were also great.
The Q is an interesting sidestep, but they clearly had a specific market in mind when they developed it that's not (most of) us.
Their P&S cameras are almost universally shit, though. I'll give you that.
And as for the no EVF bullshit, I guess that means the vast majority of m4/3 and NEX cameras ever sold are also "dead cameras"?
I owned a GF1 for a while and never really pined for an EVF. I also had the NEX-5N and while the EVF was by far the best I've ever used, it was also a) still an EVF, i.e., not as good as the worst OVF in my opinion, and b) $300 on top of the camera itself. (This is of course my own personal view of things. I know some people love or at least can tolerate EVFs.)
The contrast AF will almost certainly be slower than their DSLRs simply because it's using DSLR lenses. There's a big difference in designing a lens for CDAF and hacking CDAF onto a PDAF lens. Notice how putting 4/3 lenses via adapter onto Micro 4/3 cameras = slow autofocus the vast majority of the time, and 'acceptable' speed at the best of times. They're not even close to what can be acheived with the native M4/3 lenses, which can focus faster than any DSLR I've ever tried.
I'd imagine all the existing K-mount lenses will focus significantly slower on the K-01.
deadwolfbones wrote:
And as for the no EVF bullshit, I guess that means the vast majority of m4/3 and NEX cameras ever sold are also "dead cameras"?
I owned a GF1 for a while and never really pined for an EVF.
There are two big differences.
#1 - all micro 4/3 cameras can add an EVF if they don't have one natively, excepting the E-P1.
#2 - The NEX and micro 4/3 bodies that don't have built in EVFs are small. MUCH smaller than an SLR. It can be forgiven that they are tiny for compactness. I love that my GX1 can be an excellent full featured camera, even for long lens manual focus work when I attach the EVF, but if I want to slap a pancake on it and take the EVF off, I get a very, very small package with great image quality. Heck, I can take my GX1, the Oly 12/2, 17/2.8 and 45/1.8 and fit it into a small belt bag...the lack of an EVF isn't an issue here. However, the K-01 is nearly the same size as their flagship DSLR, and will use (except for the 40/2.8) lenses that are DSLR lenses (so no size advantage there, though Pentax does make a few very small primes). So you're carrying around this package that's the same size as a DSLR kit, but without a viewfinder. For what?
I also had the NEX-5N and while the EVF was by far the best I've ever used, it was also a) still an EVF, i.e., not as good as the worst OVF in my opinion, and b) $300 on top of the camera itself. (This is of course my own personal view of things. I know some people love or at least can tolerate EVFs.)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really? The best EVF is worse than the worst OVF? Maybe in clarity, but surely not in usefulness. The NEX and Micro 4/3 EVFs are the same image size as a full frame DSLR, while providing significantly easier manual focusing, better low light viewing and lots of little extras (like live histogram in the VF). I love a good optical view, but after using an EVF like that on my GH2 and GX1, I am shocked whenever I pick up a consumer DSLR like a DRebel, with it's super-tiny viewfinder. I can't see anyone preferring that tiny little view (that is impossible to manual focus) to the large, bright informative view of a modern EVF. But to each his own. I do agree that they are quite pricey as an add-on, though. I was really glad when I was able to get my GX1 EVF for $199 new, $50 less than any other retailer has it).
Hmm...intriguing...the sony nex-5n sensor, lots of lens compatibility, fair price..on the downside, no evf, not much smaller than a dslr. Curious to see how it plays out once the reviewers get a hold of it.
How many EVFs do you think Panasonic/Olympus have sold vs. camera bodies? What do you figure the ratio is?
I'm not trying to make any particular point with this, btw... just curious how popular you guys feel they are. I think they're talked about a lot, particularly in places like FM, but I think they don't sell like hotcakes to the average buyer.
Jman13 wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really? The best EVF is worse than the worst OVF? Maybe in clarity, but surely not in usefulness. The NEX and Micro 4/3 EVFs are the same image size as a full frame DSLR, while providing significantly easier manual focusing, better low light viewing and lots of little extras (like live histogram in the VF). I love a good optical view, but after using an EVF like that on my GH2 and GX1, I am shocked whenever I pick up a consumer DSLR like a DRebel, with it's super-tiny viewfinder. I can't see anyone preferring that tiny little view (that is impossible to manual focus) to the large, bright informative view of a modern EVF. But to each his own. I do agree that they are quite pricey as an add-on, though. I was really glad when I was able to get my GX1 EVF for $199 new, $50 less than any other retailer has it)....Show more →
It probably helps that I have very good eyesight, but I've not met an EVF yet that I prefer over the worst OVF I've used (K100D/K-x). A big part of this is the way EVFs behave in low light vs. OVFs. The other part is that what I see through an EVF rarely corresponds to reality (tonality, dynamic range, clarity, colors) in the way that what I see through an OVF does.
But anyway, this particular branch of our discussion is basically academic since the K-01 has neither (so far. I wouldn't put it past Pentax to announce a hotshoe EVF later on, though.)
I'll probably get into a MILC system with the OM-D. There are several reasons for picking this one but the built-in EVF is certainly one of them. I have two P&S which are rather good but the lack of EVF makes the shooting experience not a pleasurable one. When I shoot I want to hold it near my eye. Why hold it at a distance like I'm holding a dirty diaper? And I'm not even talking about the added stability. It's just more comfortable.
The K-01 is an interesting proposition, no doubt about that, but the lack of any kind of EVF kills it for me.
Marc Newson is a big-timer. He's not some hopeful who's wheeled out to promote a gimmick when a company runs out of ideas. There is nothing gimmicky about his designs. The guy's work is to Starck's baubles what Beethoven's Great Fugue is to Pachelbel's Canon. (I like them all, by the way, depending on my mood.)
But just as the Great Fugue was widely considered incomprehensible in its time, some of Marc Newson's designs aren't appreciated now. I think you should at least consider why you don't want a yellow camera with obsessive alignment of the features and full manual controls. Can you clearly articulate your dislike? The world has an endless supply of blobby black cameras with buttons randomly plastered on the back. Something a bit more purposeful should surely be allowed to coexist with those.
Another thing: Newson is obsessed with materials and touch. According to the press release, the K-01 incorporates aluminium alloy and natural rubber. It will probably feel great in the hand.
Disclaimer: I like yellow. It's a colour you can trust. I even own a yellow Vespa. Discount my opinions accordingly!
michael49 wrote:
Yea, peaking but no EVF in a body of this size. That makes zero sense.
And this....
When is a camera more than a photographer’s tool? The answer is when it’s an object designed by Marc Newson, one of the most acclaimed and influential contemporary designers. PENTAX RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION introduces the Marc Newson designed PENTAX K-01* interchangeable lens camera (ILC). The new PENTAX K-01 is another bold effort from the manufacturer that is known for pushing camera size, color, durability, and now, design, to the limit. Widely known for designing a wide range of objects from furniture and household products to bicycles, cars, aircraft and yachts, Marc Newson has had collected works displayed in The Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) in New York City and many other major museums. *pronounced ‘kay- zero-one’
I mean are you kidding me? Its a camera, not the newest Prada handbag. This is pure silliness.
Well, just like I imagined when the rumors came out last month, this camera is about the worst combination of concepts that I've seen. Keep the mirror box size of the K DSLRs, but remove the mirror and PDAF system?? Not only are you stuck with CDAF with PDAF legacy lenses (which Sony tried and mostly failed with the original LA-EA1 adapter,) but you're also limited to the amount of manual glass that you can use on the system, because of the long registration distance. Combine that with a relatively large size, apparently no EVF option, and questionable aesthetics, and this is just about the weirdest, least desirable camera that I've seen in a long time.
It's a shame, because Pentax could have really made something cool with a new mirrorless mount. I'd stick with Pentax's excellent DSLRs, if I was a Pentax shooter.
p.s. I love and appreciate design, and I know that Marc Newson is a big name in the industry, but I personally think he failed on this attempt. His style doesn't really shout "camera design possibilities," to me.
It's odd...in this picture, I actually kind of like it. It's kind of cool with that micro thin lens. I still think it fails as a mirrorless camera system, primarily due to size and the use of the K-mount, which means that you'll generally be using DSLR lenses instead of smaller mirrorless lenses, and the lack of a viewfinder given the size, but with the little pancake it's kind of Bauhaus cool.
Technician, you agreed with me in that other thread! Where are you now?
michael49. Do you know what I find silly? The idea that an object cannot be supremely functional and approachable at once.
The missing viewfinder, bulky size, and what-not are legitimate complaints, if those are your firmly-held views. But I have a feeling the strong, graphical shapes and bright colours offend people more than the feature list does.
It frustrates me that people seem to want every new camera to be another black, derivative, largely thoughtless apparatus. I don't mind if people don't like Newson's design, of course. But say why! Someone derisively described the Memphis collective as a marriage of Bauhaus and Fisher-Price, which roughly sums up this camera too. If you don't like that, great: tell us how a camera should look — and you'd better not describe a generic SLR!
I thought the Nikon 1 was a refreshing change of pace in a phenomenally conservative industry, but it's a pretty useless camera for someone like me. The K-01 is interesting because it's aimed at photographers who know their f-stop from their elbow. I like that!
