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Archive 2011EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
p.23 #1EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
garyvot wrote:
Yes, finally this is the unification of the professional line into a single, do-all camera, and I suspect this means the end of the 1Ds.
The fact that many professionals without requirements for high speed shooting quickly chose the 5D Mark II over the 1DsIII was really the writing on the wall (as was the reaction that many Nikon shooters had to the pricing of the D3x). Pixels alone are simply not enough to justify the cost of such a camera, and the requirements of studio and landscape photography can be satisfied in a slower, less extremely built platform.
So for...Show more →
that would make a lot of sense, we can only hope
a 3D/5D3 24-34MP at 6.3fps, with top AF and video would be something
(although it might be tough to get it too high and still have enough power for moire-free video and they sure need to just bear down and be willing to give it dual digic 5+ and not single otherwise video, for sure, you'd think would be compromised)
with the new beast at a crazy 12 fps and with such an advanced AF system it certainly leaves room for a 6.3fps with what used to be top level 1 series AF
Daan B wrote
Where is Canon going with this? Combining the speed of the 1D series and the FF sensor of the 1Ds series. End of both series perhaps? I mean, what is the advantage of the 1D series after this... apart from the 1.3x sensor for reach maybe. FF sensor will be cleaner at higher ISO's anyway. It seems like they are trying to combat the excellent FF / speedy Nikon bodies (like the D700/D3 series) with this one.The fact that many professionals without requirements for high speed shooting quickly chose the 5D Mark II over the 1DsIII was really the writing on the wall (as was the reaction that many Nikon shooters had to the pricing of the D3x). Pixels alone are simply not enough to justify the cost of such a camera, and the requirements of studio and landscape photography can be satisfied in a slower, less extremely built platform.
So for...Show more →
that would make a lot of sense, we can only hope
a 3D/5D3 24-34MP at 6.3fps, with top AF and video would be something
(although it might be tough to get it too high and still have enough power for moire-free video and they sure need to just bear down and be willing to give it dual digic 5+ and not single otherwise video, for sure, you'd think would be compromised)
with the new beast at a crazy 12 fps and with such an advanced AF system it certainly leaves room for a 6.3fps with what used to be top level 1 series AF
Oct 18, 2011 at 10:58 AM
p.23 #2EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
The small jpegs on their site. They can only be described as... ordinary. Not awful, but not even great. Hardly motivation to plop $6.8K
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos1dx/
Tom K. wrote:
What samples?
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos1dx/
Tom K. wrote:
pookipichu wrote
Are these samples supposed to impress?Oct 18, 2011 at 10:58 AM
p.23 #3EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Well they could have plopped the 1D II AF into the 5D II for example, but I doubt they will ever hand it down. 5D III will either get 7D AF (lame) or a new AF IMO
you could be right, hopefully not the lame 7D plop in or a slightly altered 7D
i swear that for objects that are not really close it really doesn't track ai servo any better than the 5D2
skibum5 wrote
yeah this new AF system sounds so much more advanced that they well could be free to even just plop the full on 1D4 AF into 5 series perhapsyou could be right, hopefully not the lame 7D plop in or a slightly altered 7D
i swear that for objects that are not really close it really doesn't track ai servo any better than the 5D2
Oct 18, 2011 at 10:59 AM
p.23 #4EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
skibum5 wrote:
one odd thing is they claim 18MP was needed because they can't drive more MP at 12fps and yet 7D already does 18MP and 8fps and 1D4 16MP at 10fps and digic 5+ is supposed to be a huge boost relative to past generation compared to the past and yet the 18*12 they get is only the same increase they had in the past so something doesn't add up, maybe the extra jpg CA, DNR etc. takes a lot of power or it was really other factors like chip read and so on
The fact a good memory card can read/write at 90 mb/s should give you an idea of the wall they are hitting. Camera will shoot at an effective rate close to 300 mb/s. So even if they wanted to push it even faster they would need a crazy sized buffer just to make that realistic.
What I'd like to see is them letting us use that ethernet connectivity to connect to external hard drives that could let us max that out closer to 18 to 20 frames per second.
The only limiter I can see is the buffer. I don't see why it isn't realistic to let us shoot faster if we have the means of not having that buffer.
one odd thing is they claim 18MP was needed because they can't drive more MP at 12fps and yet 7D already does 18MP and 8fps and 1D4 16MP at 10fps and digic 5+ is supposed to be a huge boost relative to past generation compared to the past and yet the 18*12 they get is only the same increase they had in the past so something doesn't add up, maybe the extra jpg CA, DNR etc. takes a lot of power or it was really other factors like chip read and so on
The fact a good memory card can read/write at 90 mb/s should give you an idea of the wall they are hitting. Camera will shoot at an effective rate close to 300 mb/s. So even if they wanted to push it even faster they would need a crazy sized buffer just to make that realistic.
What I'd like to see is them letting us use that ethernet connectivity to connect to external hard drives that could let us max that out closer to 18 to 20 frames per second.
The only limiter I can see is the buffer. I don't see why it isn't realistic to let us shoot faster if we have the means of not having that buffer.
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:01 AM
p.23 #6EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
edit
Edited on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM · View previous versions
Edited on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM · View previous versions
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:07 AM
p.23 #7EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
Tom K. wrote:
What samples?
The 600x400 web size images based on which the internet forum crowd will dismiss the camera as being utterly unimpressive......after all, they get much nicer, bigger and more detailed images from their $600 T2 rebels.
Edited on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM · View previous versions
pookipichu wrote
Are these samples supposed to impress?The 600x400 web size images based on which the internet forum crowd will dismiss the camera as being utterly unimpressive......after all, they get much nicer, bigger and more detailed images from their $600 T2 rebels.
Edited on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM · View previous versions
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:08 AM
p.23 #8EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
Beni wrote:
Um, am I the only one who is saying WTF about an announcement of availability in only 5 months time (03/12)? Very un-canon like is it not? Almost sounds like they are pushing a press release long before the camera would have reached a stage which would have warranted it.
It does fit the rumors where some said no new body this year and others said an announcement an dothers saying canon wasn't sure yet when to announce it so all sources were right.
But yeah back to the real point it is unusual. I think they are maybe a little scared to have nothing new announced and some crazy mega D800 coming soon??
Since they have working early versions for a while it seems a long delay, maybe they want to truly fine tune the AF and all still more with many more test copies out in the field before starting sales?
Um, am I the only one who is saying WTF about an announcement of availability in only 5 months time (03/12)? Very un-canon like is it not? Almost sounds like they are pushing a press release long before the camera would have reached a stage which would have warranted it.
It does fit the rumors where some said no new body this year and others said an announcement an dothers saying canon wasn't sure yet when to announce it so all sources were right.
But yeah back to the real point it is unusual. I think they are maybe a little scared to have nothing new announced and some crazy mega D800 coming soon??
Since they have working early versions for a while it seems a long delay, maybe they want to truly fine tune the AF and all still more with many more test copies out in the field before starting sales?
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:08 AM
p.23 #9EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
In a small image you can assume I'm not talking about detail. It's not the detail that's ordinary. It's the pictures, they're blah. With so many talented canon photographers, and a product aimed at a visual market, they should have used better talent. It's a slap in the face to photographers that they wouldn't spend more money on good photographers.
PetKal wrote:
What samples?The 600x400 web size images based on which the internet forum crowd will dismiss the camera as being utterly unimpressive......after all, they get much nicer, bigger and more detailed images from their $600 T2 rebels.
PetKal wrote:
Tom K. wrote
pookipichu wrote
Are these samples supposed to impress? Oct 18, 2011 at 11:17 AM
p.23 #10EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
This may be a stupid question, but still I am wondering (and I did not see any post on this --sorry if I missed one):
One of the selling points of 1D bodies has always been f/8 AF. Useful for anyone who would like to use a long lens with TCs (e.g., 100-400/5.6 + 1.4x, or 500/4 + 2x). I see no mention of f/8 AF capability in the DPR description. Was the f/8 AF ability retained ?
One of the selling points of 1D bodies has always been f/8 AF. Useful for anyone who would like to use a long lens with TCs (e.g., 100-400/5.6 + 1.4x, or 500/4 + 2x). I see no mention of f/8 AF capability in the DPR description. Was the f/8 AF ability retained ?
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:22 AM
p.23 #11EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
alundeb wrote:
Thanks for the help and interest!
I can try to describe how "Stofflighet" is used in the Norwegian photographic tradition.
It is the sensation of seeing, then experiencing the quality of and almost being able to feel like touching of the surface of an object in the photograph. It can be of fat and shiny leather, or the wooliness of woolen clothes, or the exact grittyness of rocks, or the structural fragility of millions of sand grain, or the dry fibres of wood, you can go on and on.
so it's sort of like the difference between printing on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl where you get full Stofflighet (with a detailed image printed at max ppi) vs. using say Epson Exhibition Fiber, the latter is very nice but it doesn't have that sort of zeiss-like 3D feel and depth and texture to it
Thanks for the help and interest!
I can try to describe how "Stofflighet" is used in the Norwegian photographic tradition.
It is the sensation of seeing, then experiencing the quality of and almost being able to feel like touching of the surface of an object in the photograph. It can be of fat and shiny leather, or the wooliness of woolen clothes, or the exact grittyness of rocks, or the structural fragility of millions of sand grain, or the dry fibres of wood, you can go on and on.
so it's sort of like the difference between printing on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl where you get full Stofflighet (with a detailed image printed at max ppi) vs. using say Epson Exhibition Fiber, the latter is very nice but it doesn't have that sort of zeiss-like
3D feel and depth and texture to it Oct 18, 2011 at 11:23 AM
p.23 #12EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
khphotography wrote:
It's a real simple thought process Snapsy.
They keep giving sensors to the competitors that keep making cameras that are better than theirs. It's only a matter of time before Sony figures a few things out. Once they can start selling their cameras in a higher volume it'll make more sense to tell Nikon to screw off.
Depends on whether Sony really intends to make DSLRs a corporate core business.
It's a real simple thought process Snapsy.
They keep giving sensors to the competitors that keep making cameras that are better than theirs. It's only a matter of time before Sony figures a few things out. Once they can start selling their cameras in a higher volume it'll make more sense to tell Nikon to screw off.
Depends on whether Sony really intends to make DSLRs a corporate core business.
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM
p.23 #13EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
pookipichu wrote:
The small jpegs on their site. They can only be described as... ordinary. Not awful, but not even great. Hardly motivation to plop $6.8K
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos1dx/
What samples?
I agree with the description of these samples! It seems to me this marks a surrender by Canon to not pursue the high-quality studio/still life /architectural etc. etc. etc. market. After seeing the quality of the images coming out of phase and Hasselblad I can't blame them much.I would think that a company like Pentax could make minor modifications to their 2 1/4 camera so that it was more professional and get a a lot of Canon studio shooters.
The small jpegs on their site. They can only be described as... ordinary. Not awful, but not even great. Hardly motivation to plop $6.8K
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos1dx/
Tom K. wrote
pookipichu wrote
Are these samples supposed to impress?I agree with the description of these samples! It seems to me this marks a surrender by Canon to not pursue the high-quality studio/still life /architectural etc. etc. etc. market. After seeing the quality of the images coming out of phase and Hasselblad I can't blame them much.I would think that a company like Pentax could make minor modifications to their 2 1/4 camera so that it was more professional and get a a lot of Canon studio shooters.
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM
p.23 #14EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
BennyR wrote:
They only put the rumor out a few days in advance. That isn't that good.
they did mention mid october quite a while back
and all sorts of talk about no new body this year but maybe announcement for 1 series replacement in october
etc.
EyeBrock wrote
Well done Canon Rumours!they did mention mid october quite a while back
and all sorts of talk about no new body this year but maybe announcement for 1 series replacement in october
etc.
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:26 AM
p.23 #15EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
Only thing that has me wondering about this camera is the dynamic range.
I'm sure it has improved but just how much more than a 1Ds III ?
Other than that, I don't see a big enough improvement to buy this time.
On a side note, this may be the start of cameras becoming more reasonably priced.
I'm sure it has improved but just how much more than a 1Ds III ?
Other than that, I don't see a big enough improvement to buy this time.
On a side note, this may be the start of cameras becoming more reasonably priced.
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:26 AM
p.23 #17EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
wickerprints wrote:
Motor drive? In a DSLR
Do they suppose the DIGIC processor is powered by tiny hamster wheels?
he meant battery pack for more juice like how the D700/D800 get more fps with the grip attached
so he was just sying he wants a small body and if that means it can't drive 12fps without grip and only 6fps then so be it, that is good enough for most times you don't want a grip anyway
nothign crazy (assuming the whole need more battery to drive it thing is not crazy itself, which it might be, might be way for nikon to push more grip sales)
Motor drive? In a DSLR
Do they suppose the DIGIC processor is powered by tiny hamster wheels?
he meant battery pack for more juice like how the D700/D800 get more fps with the grip attached
so he was just sying he wants a small body and if that means it can't drive 12fps without grip and only 6fps then so be it, that is good enough for most times you don't want a grip anyway
nothign crazy (assuming the whole need more battery to drive it thing is not crazy itself, which it might be, might be way for nikon to push more grip sales)
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:28 AM
p.23 #18EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
wickerprints wrote:
7D level? That's nowhere near "enough of an improvement." Why would Canon put an already-existing AF system from a lower-tier product into an upper-tier body? The 7D AF system is hobbyist-level stuff, not suitable for a high pixel count full frame sensor that is often used with fast-aperture primes.
No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is...Show more →
exactly, in many ways i sometimes even trust 5D2 af more than on my 7D, it depends
evertdoorn wrote
well the bar for AF has been raised; a new 5D will certainly have a system that's not as good as the X, but at maybe 7D level. That would be enough of an improvement for 95% of the users.No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is...Show more →
exactly, in many ways i sometimes even trust 5D2 af more than on my 7D, it depends
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:29 AM
p.23 #19EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
Ziffl3 wrote:
7D level? That's nowhere near "enough of an improvement." Why would Canon put an already-existing AF system from a lower-tier product into an upper-tier body? The 7D AF system is hobbyist-level stuff, not suitable for a high pixel count full frame sensor that is often used with fast-aperture primes.
No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is the future flagship body designed for high DR, low noise, high ISO, moderate resolution, and high frame rate, then the 5D3 may need to be geared toward high resolution, medium DR, medium noise, and low frame rate, to satisfy the portrait and landscape shooters who don't need the hair-trigger responsiveness of the 1D X. But if that's the case, the 5D3 will also need an AF system that can function for fast-aperture primes, and won't be crippled with f/5.6 sensors. Because it's not an "action" body, it doesn't need 61 AF points. It only needs a few points with very high precision. And that's not what the 7D has.
I can't stand how people somehow think the 7D AF is the cat's ass. It's like some of you have never seen what a 1D-series AF system is capable of doing. If your idea of "good" AF is the 7D...then buy a 7D.Funny ... not sure why you think the 7D AF is so bad
if you list out the camera bodies that are above it and below it in AF performance wise .... there is what - 3 camera above:
1DIV, 1DIII, and 1DsIII.
the above is not world beating but better in a specific realm.
(I have not used a 1DsIII.)
.....and all this is subjective in real world use.
i actually trust the 5D2 center point at least as much if not more for stills and even for ai servo if the subject is not too close
i think the 7D af is better than old xxD or rebel level but still has plenty of issues
wickerprints wrote
evertdoorn wrote
well the bar for AF has been raised; a new 5D will certainly have a system that's not as good as the X, but at maybe 7D level. That would be enough of an improvement for 95% of the users.No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is the future flagship body designed for high DR, low noise, high ISO, moderate resolution, and high frame rate, then the 5D3 may need to be geared toward high resolution, medium DR, medium noise, and low frame rate, to satisfy the portrait and landscape shooters who don't need the hair-trigger responsiveness of the 1D X. But if that's the case, the 5D3 will also need an AF system that can function for fast-aperture primes, and won't be crippled with f/5.6 sensors. Because it's not an "action" body, it doesn't need 61 AF points. It only needs a few points with very high precision. And that's not what the 7D has.
I can't stand how people somehow think the 7D AF is the cat's ass. It's like some of you have never seen what a 1D-series AF system is capable of doing. If your idea of "good" AF is the 7D...then buy a 7D.
if you list out the camera bodies that are above it and below it in AF performance wise .... there is what - 3 camera above:
1DIV, 1DIII, and 1DsIII.
the above is not world beating but better in a specific realm.
(I have not used a 1DsIII.)
.....and all this is subjective in real world use.
i actually trust the 5D2 center point at least as much if not more for stills and even for ai servo if the subject is not too close
i think the 7D af is better than old xxD or rebel level but still has plenty of issues
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:30 AM
p.23 #20EOS 1D-X! March 2012!
OceanView wrote:
Only thing that has me wondering about this camera is the dynamic range.
I'm sure it has improved but just how much more than a 1Ds III ?
Other than that, I don't see a big enough improvement to buy this time.
On a side note, this may be the start of cameras becoming more reasonably priced.
I paid $6500 for my first new car in 1985..... not sure if "reasonable" is the word I would use. On a side note, you'd think canon would have thought about those studio/landscape/fine art guys wanting more MP and modest frame rates. Hmmm, maybe this is just the first salvo in a series of announcements over the next 3-4 months?
Only thing that has me wondering about this camera is the dynamic range.
I'm sure it has improved but just how much more than a 1Ds III ?
Other than that, I don't see a big enough improvement to buy this time.
On a side note, this may be the start of cameras becoming more reasonably priced.
I paid $6500 for my first new car in 1985..... not sure if "reasonable" is the word I would use. On a side note, you'd think canon would have thought about those studio/landscape/fine art guys wanting more MP and modest frame rates. Hmmm, maybe this is just the first salvo in a series of announcements over the next 3-4 months?
Oct 18, 2011 at 11:31 AM