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Archive 2010 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

denoir
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

CVickery wrote:
Diglloyd is confirming that it's the same optics as the ZF version, and also that there will be no ZE version.

Hmm, why no ZE? I thought Canon was the largest market. Could it be that most of the Canonites bought ZF versions when they first came out and that few people have been buying the ZEs? I really hope this is not reflective of future Zeiss policy. I like my EXIF and camera controlled aperture

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:11 PM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

No ZE version! What Zeiss thinks the new Nikon 24/1.4 G is less competition than the 24L mk2?

After renting and trying out the new Nikon 24/1.4 G on my Vegas trip, I will be looking to buy that lens soon if they would ever make enough of them to stock them in the stores. I don't care about the reported AF focus problems, MF on my 1ds3 works great!

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:17 PM

denoir
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

I had actually completely missed the existence of the ZF version of this lens. I've now read up on it a bit and looked at the Lloyd Chambers review. Although he is very positive about it (he does love Zeiss glass) it is clear that this is a budget lens and not a top performer. In Lloyd's tests it comes slightly ahead of the Canon 16-35 in color rendering but falls behind in almost everything else. The 16-35 is referred to as the "highly regarded" in this review, while in the 21/2.8 review it is dismissed as basically lousy. I first switched to Zeiss because of the inadequacies of the 16-35. So, no big loss really, not having a ZE version of this particular lens

Should they however release a 35/1.4 for ZF only then my feelings will be hurt:

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:26 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

edwardkaraa wrote:
I think they probably listened to Lotus

As should all of you. ;-)

I will write things down on stone tablets, if that will help.

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:46 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

Toothwalker wrote:
Unlikely. Lotus already has the lens, and Zeiss has little hope of selling him another one

Well, I'm not so sure. The chip in the new lens mount would be useful...

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:47 PM

Vertigo2020
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

I just got confirmation directly from Zeiss. No optical redesign and no ZE. The ZF lenses are in the warehouse in NY and ready to ship to dealers. Pricing goes out tonight.

Jun 08, 2010 at 05:57 PM

CVickery
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

Strange that there will be no ZE; the only lens in the Z_ line. It almost sounds that there is another ~25mm lens in the works, but it will be a while yet. Perhaps there was enough parts in the pipeline to produce another batch of 25/2.8 of the older optical version with the ZF.2 mount...something to fill the gap until the new one is ready?

Jun 08, 2010 at 08:37 PM

philber
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

I would just like to point out that there never was a ZE 25. By the time it could have been released, the ZF 25 was pulled, due to "ongoing redesign". So if one fits all pieces of the puzzle together, this ZF.2 25mm is simply the chipped version of the ZF 25, an almost nil investment for Zeiss, as opposed to the development of a ZE version.
Thus, it stands to reason that the redsigned 25 is still ahead of us...
Sorry Lotus (brilliant post BTW!), but no cigar!

Jun 09, 2010 at 02:05 AM

HerbChong
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

my 21/2.8 is basically the same as others i have seen here and my 25/2.8 is noticeably better across the field stopped down. i don't shoot it wider than f8 and i don't shoot it close either. i don't care about distortion or any curvature of field that the lens has.

Herb...

denoir wrote:
The 16-35 is referred to as the "highly regarded" in this review, while in the 21/2.8 review it is dismissed as basically lousy. I first switched to Zeiss because of the inadequacies of the 16-35. So, no big loss really, not having a ZE version of this particular lens

Edited on Jun 09, 2010 at 11:39 AM · View previous versions

Jun 09, 2010 at 11:17 AM

denoir
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

HerbChong wrote:
my 21/2.8 is basically the same as others i have seen here and my 25/2.8 is noticeably better across the field stopped down.

Better how? Lloyds test show that you need to go down to f/11 to get properly sharp corners. I'm not disputing your claim - I'm just curious.

Luka

Jun 09, 2010 at 11:26 AM

HerbChong
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

sharper across the field and esp in the corners.

Herb...

denoir wrote:
Better how? Lloyds test show that you need to go down to f/11 to get properly sharp corners. I'm not disputing your claim - I'm just curious.

Jun 09, 2010 at 11:41 AM

Edgar M
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

that would be magnanimous if they finally released the 35/1.4 ...celebrations will have to be made

Jun 09, 2010 at 12:11 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

I love my ZF25. It has performed very well for me and I have no complaints whatsoever. I think this lens gets a bum rap sometimes for no good reason. Most of the negative reviews I have read in forums seem to come from people who have not tried the lens out. Give it a whirl - you may be pleasantly suprised...

Jun 09, 2010 at 12:19 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

denoir wrote:
Lloyds test show that you need to go down to f/11 to get properly sharp corners.

Really. I don't remember that. My subscription lapsed so I can't check (my bad). I do remember him saying lots of nice things about the lens. I can tell you from my own experience that at typical landscape distances by f5.6 this lens is very, very sharp right up to the corner, where it then falls off like most wider Zeiss lenses. The f11 comment might be related to the extreme close focus capability of the lens, where you do not use the lens expecting it to performance like a flat field makro lens and where diglloyd.com recently described it's performance in his blog as, "one with a distinct and appealing personality at close range, perhaps to become a cult favorite of those liking unusual image rendition." -- a statement with which I quite agree. This lens has a great, wonderful look used close up, even if it's field is anything but flat. To use it, is to love it.

Jun 09, 2010 at 12:53 PM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

He probably meant that due to the lens's massive field curvature, that if you are taking a picture where you want a flat plane of focus like the side of a building, then you probably have to stop down to f11 to get the corners sharp.
When used close up how different is this lens's rendering to the Z* 28/2 which is not only faster but has a floating element design too?
For landscape I think I would prefer the Z* 21 over the Z* 25/2.8 and for close street/cityscape shooting I think I would prefer the faster Z* 28/2. I think Zeiss made a better decision to make the ZA version a faster f2 version, even though I wish, along with some other people here, that they had gone for f1.4.
Maybe the new ZE 25 will be redesigned for f2 or better yet f1.4!

Jun 09, 2010 at 01:31 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

I would like to buy 21mm one day, but as it is I intend to start using my 25mm more and focus on getting a full frame body first. Would be usefull to start a thread dedicated to 25mm or maybe a comparison of 21 and 25. not so much scientific as "pictorial" if I may say so

Jun 09, 2010 at 01:35 PM

denoir
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

HerbChong wrote:
sharper across the field and esp in the corners.

Herb...

At f/8? Then your 21 Distagon must be in pretty bad shape. At f/8 it should easily outresolve any digital sensor available on a DSLR today. The details are on the same scale as the sensor noise... If the 25 was as sharp at f/8 would not surprise me too much, but sharper..

Anwyay, look - and I'm saying it to every owner professing their love for the lens - I have not tried it. I have actually not seen many images taken with it. I'm just parroting Lloyd's review. I'm not trying to give it a negative review - I am not qualified to do so without trying it myself.

Lloyds review in a nut shell is that he likes the colors, the close focus and the unique rendering style. As far as sharpness, he compares to the Canon 16-35 zoom (which I do own) saying that though the zoom may be sharper the Zeiss produces nicer colors. He criticizes the corner sharpness which only according to his tests shapes up at f/8 and becomes good at f/11. He further says that the color fringing is excessive and he shows a response he got from Zeiss on the issue. Their response was that it was a budget lens and therefor not as optically controlled as the more expensive Zeiss UWA:s. His conclusion is that he likes the lens and that it has an interesting personality.

Anyway, that's his take on it, not mine. I don't have one.

Jun 09, 2010 at 01:41 PM

HerbChong
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

based on my examination of other Zeiss 21/2.8 images at 100%, mine is not different in any significant way from others. if anything, it shows even people who own Zeiss lenses are sometimes sloppy at simply things like focus and post processing. dead center at f8 or f11, my 25 is sharper than my 21 though only just barely visible under ideal circumstances. it does slightly better in the corners than the 21.

Herb...

denoir wrote:
At f/8? Then your 21 Distagon must be in pretty bad shape. At f/8 it should easily outresolve any digital sensor available on a DSLR today. The details are on the same scale as the sensor noise... If the 25 was as sharp at f/8 would not surprise me too much, but sharper..

Jun 09, 2010 at 02:33 PM

Mike K
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

HerbChong wrote:
my 21/2.8 is basically the same as others i have seen here and my 25/2.8 is noticeably better across the field stopped down. i don't shoot it wider than f8 and i don't shoot it close either. i don't care about distortion or any curvature of field that the lens has.

Herb...

Here is a table comparing MTFs from Zeiss lenses; I presume the tests were performed on an adapter modified Canon 5D for FF coverage?
The 25/2.8 performed well at the center, very close to the 21/2.8 and even better at the smallest apertures. However at the border (zone B) the 21/2.8...Show more →

Jun 09, 2010 at 03:19 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Zeiss 25mm ZF.2 announced

Mike K wrote:
Here is a table comparing MTFs from Zeiss lenses; I presume the tests were performed on an adapter modified Canon 5D for FF coverage?
The 25/2.8 performed well at the center, very close to the 21/2.8 and even better at the smallest apertures. However at the border (zone B) the 21/2.8 had consistently higher MTF values over the 25/2.8. Without more details it would appear to be an apples to apples test.

http://www.welsh4.com/index.php?view=article&catid=15%3Azeiss-lens-tests&id=9%3Azeiss-lens-comparison-chart&option=com_content&Itemid=2

OK. Here is the obvious question. At what distance were those MTF's produced? As has been discussed here with respect to another self-appointed web tester (photozone), the ZF 25mm does not do well reproducing test charts at a distance of a couple feet. It's not designed for that. It is designed, primarily, as a landscape lens and accordingly, is optimized for infinity.

In addition, the source of these tests suggest that these are tests of the Contax c/y Zeiss lenses NOT the ZF/ZE lenses!!! the test of the 28/2.8 should have been a dead give away (ZF version doesn't exist), the same goes for the 18/2.8(!).

However to get back to the discussion, at infinity or typical landscape distances, Herb's findings are entirely possible, and not inconsistent with my experience. Looking at Zeiss MTF's, which are done at infinity, at f5.6 the ZF 21mm and the ZF 25mm are very comparable. The 25mm could indeed perform better the the edges of the frame at f5.6 (might depend on the nature of the subject, to some extent), while we might expect the 21mm to be a little better in the center.

Jun 09, 2010 at 03:44 PM

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