Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

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Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Tim Ashton
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p.629 #1 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

JWilsonphoto wrote:
Wrei wrote:
Slug69, the dirty little secret of US manufacturing is that our government has been striving to shut it down since the 1970's. The US has very little "manufacturing" capabilities compared to the middle of the 20th century. At best, we assemble and integrate foreign manufactured components. Our government's environmental protections and occupational, safety and health regulations have virtually shut down manufacturing. Our current administration is trying to shut down our oil and fuel manufacturing with their cap and trade policy. Where is our steel industry? China. We mine the ore, fill the ships in the Great Lakes, ship it to China, it is returned as manufactured metals.

The irony: the manufacturing labor unions have been providing finacial support to the political party that continues to shrink their ranks. But, that political party scratches the palms of the union leaders who get very high pay, so they don't care. I am amazed how things work here.

Dear Slug,

I'm not sure how it will ever turn around. I've never been much of a conspiracy theorist, but it sure looks like these people are trying to do everything they can to destroy what made America great. They've realized that they can build a voting block of people who are too wealthy to care and people who pay little or no taxes so they have no skin in the game. The rest of us are like deer in the headlights trying to keep doing what we do while it all crumbles around us. Being born in Chicago, I'm very familiar with The Windy City's political techniques and now they have taken on a global scope. Doubly maddening is the fact that the "Republicans" virtually paved the way for this with their wishy washy policies. Where do you turn?

Jim, Not sure if I have mentioned this before on this forum but there are just so many reasons why the US economy will come out of this and regain its undisputed position as no1.
First is the undisputed natural wealth of you nation. Your agricultural capacity leads the world, your chemical industries lead the world, your manufacturers of mining equipment lead the world, for farm machinery check out Deere and Case International
Just stand back and quietly draw up the rest of the list I just started for you. I think you will be pleasantly suprised.
Of course, as much as you hate government intervention, someone has to pull the wall street cowboys into line.
US Treasury papers for fin yr ended 2006 show that the finance industry was resposible for 3% of the GDP whilst generating 34+% of corporate profits. I would also ask why health in the USA costs so much more per capita than in other countries like Australia? Maybe a few of these corporations providing health and insurance, like the bankers are ripping the people of the USA off in a major way.
You lot have so much capacity, driven by the best universitys in the world ther wil be no stopping you
Betcha

Tim

Nov 21, 2009 at 04:44 AM

Leo Hursh
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p.629 #2 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Great opening salvo Scott! Wish I could see an F-111 fly sometime.

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:07 AM

JWilsonphoto
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p.629 #3 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Funny, the things that have profound influences in one's life. Sheila and I have so many gifts in our lives, not the least of which is each other, that it's difficult to organize them in order of importance. In retrospect I'll have to say my life long interest in photography has been right up there. Sure it has provided me with a very comfortable living for the last three decades, and that's important, but infinitely more significant are the unquantifiable things that the pursuit of the elusive image has brought to my life. There have been countless cold, dark, morning departures where my mind was filled with apprehension and doubt about my qualifications to accomplish the task before me. Those fears have ingrained a level of introspection and organization that has assured, regardless of the challenges and stumbling blocks, a more than successful outcome. That degree of planning and organization has, in turn, permeated the rest of my life, along with developing an ability to think on my feet in a myriad of very fluid situations. Photography has allowed me to build a confidence in myself that I'm not sure anything else could have. I'm not sure what other pursuit could entice me to climb into the open tail of a sixty year old airplane and dangle my toes at the mile deep drop off before me.

Have you ever stopped to analyze why the still image mesmerizes us so? People can say, "What's up with those Guys at MA2A and their aircraft shots?" But I know all of you, and yes we're fascinated with the emotion and power that aviation subjects embody, but that's not the boundary of our obsession with photography. Most, if not all of us shoot a variety of subjects and are just as mesmerized by the task of composing and capturing a beautiful landscape as we are an F/18 in full burner. It's the quest of capturing that 1/80th of a second that has never happened before, and will never happen exactly that way again, that drives us.I guess it's like the Harley t-shirt that claims, "If I have to explain, .......... you wouldn't understand." I for one am very grateful that that desire, vision, quest, whatever, was tumbled into my make up.

This coming week we in America stop for a brief time to ponder the gifts that enrich our lives. I'm thankful for much, not the least of which are the friendships that have been brought into existence and nurtured by this thread. Thanks for being the people you are and for your willingness to befriend and encourage most all who find us here, and the unselfish way you share your collective talent.

Happy Thanksgiving wherever you may be.

JW

P.S. Another of those Gifts that rank way up there..................

2012 © JWilsonphoto

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:35 AM

DrScott
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p.629 #4 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Thanks for the warm welcomes. I wish I had more aircraft images to share! I'll prep a few of the prop aircraft from the same airshow and post them tomorrow.

And to introduce myself, I'm a 40 year-old scientist (biologist) who has dabbled in photography over the years. I've assisted other photographers doing background and photojournalistic shots for weddings and celebrity shoots. These days I've decided to try and get out there and start taking images again. Picked up a 7D and a few lenses to help me along the way. Now I just need to get out there and get to it

Scott.

Nov 21, 2009 at 06:59 AM

JWilsonphoto
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p.629 #5 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Dear Scott,

How do you like your new 7D? From what I read it sounds like it's a very capable camera.

Nov 21, 2009 at 01:56 PM

jbear2000
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p.629 #6 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Thanks for the bio, Scott... and scientists are welcome here too - so shoot up some great shots with that new rig and have some fun. Also - when you're not doing anything else - go back and look at the first MA2A thread that is in archives - a lot of those images lost the links - but a lot are still there. Its worth the time. I'd post a link but i don't have it book marked on this computer. I'll do it later today if noone else has.

-----------------------

As to the ongoing conversation about whether the American economy bounces back... a lot has to do with what happens in the next mid term election. Our current situation is on a precarious ledge when you have one party rule ramming their agendas down the throats of the American people. Obama has dropped from a high 60% rating to a mere 46% approval rating - now that the people who voted for him see what his socialist policies are giving them. This country may or may not snap back - the unfunded mandates, taxes on the working class and small business, the nonsensical healthcare bill, and a myriad of other policies will cripple this economy in short order.

Someone posted they thought Clinton turned the economy around in his administration - well not so fast - the effects of governmental policy turn on very slow wheels. Clinton reaped the benefits of the Reagan & Bush policies that were set prior to Clinton coming in to office. Clinton got the credit because the results weren't felt by the vast majority of Americans until Clinton had been in office a couple years. Clinton's policy changes likewise didn't show up until the Bush years and Bush suffered for it. Of course he tried to outspend the democrats in an effort to please democrats and by doing so he became unpopular with everyone. It is yet to be seen whether Obama can pull this economy out - we won't know till he is out of office... those darn slow turning wheels.

I do know this... when Hillary Clinton made a speach during the Clinton administration that "the American government couldn't be concerned with under funded small business" my ears perked up. Most small businesses are under funded due to the tax burdens, the OSHA requirements, the constantly increasing minimum wages we have to pay the unproductive idiots the school system sends into the workforce - and for businesses like mine - the FDA running around with a host of requirements to "protect" the people.

I've worked in the dental profession since 1974 and owned my own laboratory since 1987. It has largely been an apprentice/journeyman/craftsman/master type of skill development path. It takes 2 weeks to teach someone how to do one step in the process. It takes about a year before they are good enough to not make unproductive mistakes that cost the company a lot of money/ two years to become somewhat proficient enough to break even on their work effort/ five years for them to begin to understand what they are doing and how it all fits in to the grand scheme of the functions of the mouth and 10 years to be considered a craftsman.

The National Board for Certification has constantly dropped its requirements for time in the field due to fewer and fewer people wanting to be technicians. When I became certified, it was 6 years before you could test at an official testing facility to see if you were qualified to take the certification written and practical exams. I believe they have dropped that to 3 years... the graduate from the dental programs are functional idiots who think they should be paid 30 grand a year to start when i could train someone off the street OJT in about 3 weeks to be able to do the same level of work.

I started at the dental lab in Kansas for 1.65 an hour. Today, i can't hire a high school grad for less than 9.00 an hour. (minimum wage laws only benefit the unions - as they set their pay scales against it)

If it takes approximately 3 years to break even on someone - graduate or not - at a starting pay of 9.00 an hour... and once they are trained - more often than not - they leave to work for brand x because they will get a 25 cent raise - and you have to start all over... well - we don't need any more government intervention and tax burdens. (oh - and by the way - during those three years of training, they have gotten raises along the way. Usually up to 12 to 13 dollars an hour)

Enter China into the mix. They have 10 or 20 new dental labs doing a lions share of dental work around the globe. Mostly here in America. It is killing the bottom and lower end market here. They have the people standing in lines for a job in a lab by the millions. They don't get paid much - but its a job. Chinese labs can produce a "crown" and ship it to the US for around 50 bucks. No commercial lab in the US can compete at the 50 dollar price. Of course - like the lady featured on 60 minutes a year ago - who had a bridge that she didn't know was made in China, and it had radioactive isotopes and lead in it - and they wondered why her gums were inflamed.

Due to the Chinese imports of questionable materials, now the FDA is involved to regualte the import of these restorations. Of course the FDA has little or no funding and even less authority over foreign countries - so they spend their time inspecting US labs and placing incredible burdens on them to meet the requirements. Do you know there are reports that have to be done on the scope and efficiency of the reports you just made? HAs nothing to do with the product - you have to report on the reports and do it in three different ways! For the vast majority of labs in the medium to small category (small = 5 employees or less / medium = 15 or less) you have to have one or two full time employees (who don't produce anything) to just fill out the forms! It's insanity!

Unbridled Chinese competition, combined with over burdening tax liabilities, combined with unrealistic wages, combined with heavy handed OSHA and FDA requirements (government mandated requirements) combined with CAD/CAM technologies will eventually kill the artisan lab business in this country. We are but a small part of the grand scheme of things - but indicative of every other "small business" that is feeling the pinch.

Every action the government takes is felt and every proposal has to be scrutinized. Money doesn't grow on trees. Employees and those with the "worker" mentality don't EVER understand this. They ride the clock, expect benefits, high pay and now want free health care. If they don't get what they want, they quit or intentionally lose their jobs and then ride unemployment and government assistance and wait for their free handouts... that come from hard working responsible people who have a clue.

I have a client - a top level dentist here in the Atlanta area - who is very involved in the politics that control and influence the dental profession. One day we were having a serious conversation about the healthcare bill. The caps placed on what a dentist can charge are ridiculous. Somewhere around 475.00 per crown. (He currently gets $1600.00) He says to me - if the government requires i make it up in volume - the care each patient will get will suffer greatly. He also says if he can only charge $475, he isn't going to be able to pay me my $300.00! With the follow up question of "what are you going to do?" Clearly he has to choose China as a source for cheap work. I sorta smile and he acknowledges that at least I have photography to fall back on. He says he is moving to Switzerland!

Hence - I'm shooting photography - looking to find a way to make it pay - so there is a possible alternative income stream as i enter my retirement years... as breathing glass dust, drilling the end of my fingers with 300,000 rpm drills, and long hours are starting to get old. So far the FDA hasn't figured out how to insert themselves into digital imaging.

Nov 21, 2009 at 02:04 PM

JWilsonphoto
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p.629 #7 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Here ya go.......

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/462776

Nov 21, 2009 at 02:44 PM

jbear2000
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p.629 #8 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

As you can see by my last post - from a small business owner's perspective - you now know why i enjoy shooting the free spirited flights of aerobatic planes and military might. It is such a change - and brings so much pride in what our American heroes of the air have done - that I am permanently addicted.

GML 07

Oshkosh 08

Alliance 08

Edited on Nov 21, 2009 at 03:12 PM · View previous versions

Nov 21, 2009 at 02:50 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.629 #9 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Couple of quick comments here.

First, to Jon's post. Interesting, you've put lots of thought into this. Second, I mentioned Clinton's administration at one point (don't think anyone else has), so it's probably that comment which you remember. The actual comment was not that he turned the economy around: what I said is that I disagreed with many of the things his Administration did, but that I did appreciate that they eliminated the budget deficit entirely in a very un-Dem show of fiscal balancing responsibility.

Second, to the general manufacturing issues mentioned. One of the terms that is rarely mentioned is the "value chain", and it does need to be kept in mind. Low-end manufacturing carries very low margins and can only be done with commodity approaches and low-cost labor. More high-end manufacturing has a higher component of design and intellectual contribution, more precision and quality, and allows higher pay to the workers. Specialty or luxury products are obvious, and among the highest-margin (and highest-pay) pieces of the value chain are services, especially thought- or knowledge-intensive services.

There are lots of reasons why some things happen and why some industries move to different cities, states, or countries. I'm not contradicting any of the opinions previously mentioned... but I'd like to add this factor, so that each person can consider it: sometimes losing an industry is a very good thing. Silly example: if your country is heavily involved in low-value-added work (e.g. simple manufacturing, assembly, etc.) then you're going to have citizens with low pay. For those citizens to get wealthier, they need education and other things... but if they can successfully transition to offering more high-value-added products or services, then they as individuals and the whole country in general will get paid more and get wealthier. Sometimes people/industries make this transition intelligently and with prior intent, and sometimes it's the entry of a new and powerful low-price competitor that takes their jobs and forces them to reinvent themselves.

The value chain does require basic economics to be respected. Require a minimum wage of $7 or $9, and those jobs that would truly justify only $5 will either go unfilled, or outsourced, or off-shored. Pay people $25, and the product/service they make had better be competitive at those cost levels. But on the other side, make something for which the world will pay $100 an hour, and your people will thrive. I also note that moving up the value chain to make your people better off requires investment in them and in themselves: education especially. It's not automatic, and not assured.

The race to the bottom in price or quality is mutually destructive. And generally, any market/industry will allow only one or two dominant low-cost (read, minimum-value-added) players with pure price strategies. Everyone else must add value somehow to differentiate their product. Those who add the most value, get the best price, and should not have any trouble getting business (ever) because they are generating real value, not just a luxury expensive something. The value-chain model also argues strongly against price caps, since what good is adding value if you can't charge for it?

Again, not contradicting anything prior. Economics and business (the forest and the trees, respectively) require many tools to be used together. But in a simple forest analogy: some fires and burned-down-to-the-ground parts are actually healthy for the forest, since they provide the opportunity for new growth that's not starved by the overbearing powers of the past. Be those unions, or individuals with the sad combination of too much money and too little humanity, or whatever, some "creative destruction", death, and rebirth, is of great value.

But when one part of the forest burns down (an industry, a market segment) we must also care for those who are affected and help them regrow and recover. We must care for the forest, but we also have a duty to help each and every plant/animal/forest-dweller thrive over time.

Nothing is black and white in economics. There are plenty of grays, and there are also opportunities/threats built into every situation. Let China take the LVA segments, but make sure your people are able, educated, willing, and have the opportunity to move to more LVA jobs or businesses. If possible, do so in advance! And also, note that the best source of innovation and value addition is the entrepreneurs and small businesses who also generate the most employemnt, the lowest operating costs, and the highest transparency in nearly any free-market economy. I never liked Hillary Clinton either.

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:06 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #10 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Here is a scary thought:
How would a government reduce imports without increasing tarriffs? Increase the cost of transportation in ships across the Pacific Ocean. Use Cap and trade to increase the cost of produced oil and manufactured oil products 3 times the current cost. This increased production and shipping cost for the processed metals and manufactured items, along with a very weak currency will lower demand for the foreign goods, thus offsetting the lower wages.

The only problem with this? The government will need the business sector to provide investment capital to fund rebuilding the infrastructure for new manufacturing to replace the overpriced imports. Oops. The government is draining that very investment capital needed, plus the cost of energy from the aforemention cap and trade. This is a loose-loose "revolting predicament". (Life of Riley anyone?)

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:33 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #11 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Anybody got airplane pictures. I've expended my annual quota for reading! I'll even look at the macro pics now!!!!!!!!!

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:34 PM

jbear2000
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p.629 #12 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Rodolfo - with all due respect and acknowledgment of the effort you put into your response (and I'm generally in agreement with the principles) the economic theories taught in business school don't often apply in the real world. One reason is you always have the government meddling into the equation.

A few years ago - your comments were also spread around the lab industry as we all saw this coming. The low end market will be the low end and you position yourself to the high end and survive and thrive.

That is what we have done as has many other high-end boutique labs.

That all comes to a screeching halt when the government says the doctor CAN'T charge more than "X". He has to make it up in volume. Healthcare suffers and the labs that were providing high end work have been replaced by whatever company can provide a restoration that the doctor and still make some kind of margin.

In the 70's the lab bill for a single crown was on average about $65.00 and the doctor charged the patient about $250.00. Today The doctor charges in this area between $1000.00 and 1600.00 for average work. The super high end dentists are getting $3000 to 5000. None of them pay more than $500.00 for a super high end crown and there just isn't a market for that many high end crowns.

It is believed that an efficient commercial lab in the US should have a salary at about 40% of gross to be considered in a profitable zone. Most labs currently operate in reality at 55 to 60%.

Add to all of that the government mandates, taxes and the new healthcare costs and you have a recipe for failure. All the business school theories will not save you when you have meddling from outside.

Since I've met a payroll, produced a product and made some profit along the way the last 22 years - i believe my perspective has a bit more weight behind it than what we learned in business school. I don't mean any disrespect but doing that in this country - with all the legal constraints involved - gives me a perspective on government intervention and trade policies - that isn't realized until you or anyone else has had to do the same for any length of time.

Please believe me when I say this is a friendlier response than it reads. Maybe the tone is due to the constant pressure a business owner has when the economy and business is in a downward spiral due to forces beyond his control.

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:35 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #13 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Having been to business school, my instructors (the libertarians and conservatives) always talked about how companies needed to "ABLE" to develop 5, 10 and 15 year strategic plans. But, they taught, because the government can change the rules instantly, this is impossible.

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:44 PM

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p.629 #14 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

I'm LOVING the A10 shots (a few pages back)! That is without a doubt one of my favorite aircraft!

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:46 PM

JWilsonphoto
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p.629 #15 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Dear Eddie,

I'll find you some more A/10 images. I'll have to say I never gave this aircraft much thought, until I say the demo team at Alliance, now it's one of my favorites as well.

JW

Nov 21, 2009 at 03:58 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #16 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

A mechanics perspective

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This was one of my first pictures taken with the 40D. You are welcome to "fix it" for better colors.

Nov 21, 2009 at 04:05 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #17 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Did somebody mention Boy Scouts?

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Nov 21, 2009 at 04:26 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.629 #18 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Jon, no offense taken. But your perception of me seems to strongly dismiss my real-world experience and chalk up my statements to "what is taught in business school" so let me offer up parts of my résumé to add perspective.

I started my first little business at age 11, met payroll since 1991. I come from a third-generation family that started from scratch and built a company big enough to be #438 on the Fortune 500. I've run over $100M in commercial real-estate development projects. I manage (alone, or as part of a team) nearly $50M in financial and business investments. I've worked in 12 countries, in four languages. And I was exporting from the USA in 1991, I've owned real estate in the USA since 1986, and I've filed and paid taxes in the USA all along the way. I've found my own jobs and started my own businesses, no exceptions and no family support. I went into my MBA program with 11 years of post-college experience, in addition to whatever I'd done before then, the highest level of real-world exposure of anyone in my class.

I am not simply parroting what some professor said. I respect your 22 years of experience, so I'll ask that you respect mine. Your perspective has all the weight of your personal opinion, which it is, and you're entirely entitled to have it because it's a legitimate opinion. It does not have any less weight than the opinion of any other qualified businessperson, but it does not have any more weight either. And we all live with that "constant pressure".

I am not mad at you. This is not an argument. And I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bragging, since I've certainly had many (most?) failures along the way. I do not feel that my opinions are "better" than yours, I just prefer mine. But I do feel that your comments dismiss my contributions as ivory-tower book learning untainted by contact with the messiness of the real world. I hope to correct that so we can have a reasonable discussion about our respective opinions.

In response to your response.

I mentioned the downsides of government intervention (price caps and others) in my post. I've always made a strong case for small government, low taxes, low intervention, and other things with which you agree. But I'll add that business management (in theory and practice both) does not fail because of government... businesspeople must include government intervention as one of the input/cost/risk factors that affect them just as much as hurricanes or Chinese imports are factors. I also did not say that the high end is the only place to be: I said that everyone must add value and differentiate themselves in some way, while of course those who manage to add the most value get the best price.

In the end, hopefully the "reasoned discourse of ideas" discussed in a diverse group where slightly- or significantly-different thoughts and beliefs are represented, will allow each of us to take what we find of value and leave the rest, but still achieve better results in our own lives than we would have gotten without the benefit of all diversity.

Edited on Nov 21, 2009 at 04:29 PM · View previous versions

Nov 21, 2009 at 04:26 PM

LarsOJohannes
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p.629 #19 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

nice ones, DrScott.. the BAe Hawk reminds me of an updated Phantom

, and I love 'the pig'

Nov 21, 2009 at 04:29 PM

Wrei
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p.629 #20 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Travel pod anyone?

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Later.

Nov 21, 2009 at 04:32 PM

jbear2000
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p.629 #21 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

No offense meant or taken Rodolfo - we see things from different perspectives . We also see things differently than many who may be reading this thread. My post has to encompass both you and everyone else.
So with that said the first half or your response is understood and unnecessary- we are on the same page and I am aware of your business accumen. There are some significant differences in our experiences and some that really don't apply to this conversation - but there is enough meat there to give you some street cred. So please don't think I am being dismissive.

The second half of your response isn't changed either in thT the 50 pound gorilla in the room is a government run by bully politics that spells disaster for all private business in this country.
If people love this country and the rich history of profitability and success - then those of us who know better MUST work to return it to two party rule as soon as possible.

Elsewhile we will soon become the third world mess we historcally left in the dust over a century ago!

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:01 PM

eddiejclayton
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p.629 #22 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

JWilsonphoto wrote:
Dear Eddie,

I'll find you some more A/10 images. I'll have to say I never gave this aircraft much thought, until I say the demo team at Alliance, now it's one of my favorites as well.

JW

I've always liked the A10 even as a kid growing up, I even wanted to fly one! Military thing never took fruition but my love for that aircraft has never died. I have a few expended casings from the AN/GAU-8 Avenger gun that is mounted in the aircraft. I would not want to be on the opposite end of it with it's 3900 RPM 30mm rounds!

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:34 PM

Glenn Watson
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p.629 #23 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

The HOG:

Glenn

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:40 PM

Glenn Watson
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p.629 #24 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Glenn

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:45 PM

Glenn Watson
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p.629 #25 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Target Pilot...

Glenn

Nov 21, 2009 at 05:47 PM


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