Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Moderated by: guardian

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day

FM Forums | City, Still life & Abstract | Join Image Upload
1 2 3 … 246

247

248 … 274 275 end

Rodolfo Paiz
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #1 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Ah, but the trick is that you can't choose to avoid something unsafe until you know that it is so. The people who die in air-to-air accidents like that, most likely just didn't realize the level of risk. Which is we watch your back.

Nov 30, 2008 at 09:03 PM

Jan-Arie
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #2 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Hey JB i have no current photo material at the moment thinking of giving the body a tech service check with canon so everything is in top condition when the winter ends.
Ive been fortunate to get a CPN membership entry for the next two years.
So maybe the service will be quickly executed.
Will sweep the files for some lost keepers...
Now it's of to bed

Nov 30, 2008 at 09:19 PM

JWilsonphoto
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #3 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Here's Wilson's tip of the weekend....... get Greg Poe tack sharp by shooting him sitting still at 1/200th.........................

2008 © JWilsonphoto

Nov 30, 2008 at 09:36 PM

JWilsonphoto
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #4 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

The other "Fabulous Thunderbirds"...............

2008 © JWilsonphoto

Nov 30, 2008 at 10:11 PM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #5 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Wings Over Marietta...
Moon Shot

Dec 01, 2008 at 12:52 AM

Glenn Watson
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #6 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

JBear: Wow.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Glenn

Dec 01, 2008 at 03:57 AM

RobTilly
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #7 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Woohoo!

I got my trade visitor invitation for Avalon Airshow today. Only 98 days, 19hours to go.

Not that I'm counting or anything....

Dec 01, 2008 at 03:57 AM

JWilsonphoto
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #8 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

That Boy does know which way to point a lens! Great capture!

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:30 AM

JWilsonphoto
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #9 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

98 days to practice up Rob!

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:30 AM

JWilsonphoto
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #10 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Allen,

Hope we didn't pounce on your bubble. None of that advice was given in a "we're so cool and only we can do it" way. Air to air is just a lot more dangerous than the average shooter and or pilot comprehends. Photographers have no idea and most pilots never get within a half mile of another aircraft, so they don't really understand either. Literally, in the blink of an eye, a formation can go from really cool to really bad. A little lapse in concentration, some unexpected rough air, the photo platform pilot just has to turn around and look at the cool shots you're getting.......... bam! And everyone is dead, that quick, and it happens over and over. Lockheed lost 2 F-16's, two pilots and a seasoned staff photographer a couple of years back, somebody lost a split second of concentration.......... three lives and lots of dollars vaporized, and everyone was great at what they were doing.

Thirty years of doing this, every i dotted, every t crossed. Every member of the team a seasoned pro. I start every assignment with a mix of adrenaline and nausea, and when we're done, and the adrenaline rush fades, I am exhausted. My good friend and accomplished formation/photo platform pilot Butch Smith always smiles across the table at dinner after a day of planning and shooting, we're both so wrung out we're wondering whose face is going into the mashed potatoes first. It's flat out draining, but so cool! Get your feet wet with a pro, as suggested, and make sure he or she really is a pro............in more minds than their own. Good luck!

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:50 AM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #11 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Glenn - wow back! that is a really nice F-22 capture.

I'm on a quest to get one half that nice... seems like everyone else on this thread has one... i guess i need more practice... when is the next show?

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:26 AM

Rodolfo Paiz
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #12 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Sigh... a sad moment here, although thankfully just for something material and not something truly important. Nikon's new flagship, the D3x, has been released. It's everything I wanted in a camera, a toe-to-toe competitor to the 1Ds3, but I hoped it would be priced at $6,000 or $6,500 to put price pressure on Canon. Instead, it's priced at $8,000 which I can clearly not afford.

I'm going to keep my D300 until a month or so before Oshkosh, at which point I'll revisit both the price of my available choices (D3 or D3x) and my finances, and go from there. The downside is that I stay at 12MP instead of moving to 24MP. The upside is that I save $3,500 that I can use for glass. Such is life.

Thank you for listening. I'm done with my self-pity here, and back to enjoying the really cool camera I already own. More images coming up tomorrow!

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:30 AM

blueangel_78
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #13 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

There isn't much I can say that hasn't been said. But it's worth saying over and over again. Air to air is very dangerous. There are so many variables involved, that it's really an accident waiting to happen. That being said, there are ways to mitigate those risks. The main way is to have formation qualified pilots flying the aircraft. Not just some VFR guys who've banged around the patch a few times and have beers together at the end of the day. But guys and gals who have done this more then a few times. Flying is dangerous enough, but when you're 20 feet from another aircraft, that takes a whole different level of skill. Then you add in the photographer, who will be calling a lot of the shots in the air. If he/she is not clear in their commands of what the aircraft need to do, then that's also asking for trouble. "Umm...can you move closer?" Who? Which aircraft? ... Who is in charge of communications? Weather? Terrain? Are you properly strapped in if you're flying with the door open? EAR/EYE PRO? FOD? Nothing like trying to change a lens, and having a lens cap fly out the window right towards another plane. Or even worse, the lens or body. Stick your hand out the window next time you're on the freeway. Now multiply that by 3 when you're in the air. The slipstream is amazingly powerful. Not to mention the physics of two large masses flying in formation. A sudden gust of wind, power/engine failure, etc There are a lot of things that can go wrong.

But when you have a group of pilots who are qualified, and things start clicking, it's pure poetry.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Just cuz your car can go a 150mph, doesn't mean that you should drive that fast. Just cuz you can fly two planes closely together, doesn't mean that you should.

Sagar

Edited on Dec 01, 2008 at 06:41 AM · View previous versions

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:39 AM

mmniemi
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #14 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

jbear2000 wrote:
can i guess that guy's profession... it looks like he is a jBear impersonator from about 4 years ago... diabetes took most of my bearishness - about 60 lbs ... - i'm glad someone out there is still representin' though ...

HEHE, that's actually not what I had in mind. I remember seeing a photo of you with some natural curlyness in your hair. I thought that must have something to do with being a dentist

That guy flying the little Beechcraft, our clubs president, owns his own dental practice

Ps. Thanks for the comments about the bicycle photo everyone! I'm glad I noticed what it really had in it as I truly was just about to delete it as "just another snapshot"...

Mikko

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:40 AM

blueangel_78
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #15 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Just also wanted to share this for those who want a first hand look at what goes into actually getting a shot.

http://horizontalrain.com/blog/2008/03/25/acrobatics-tucker-style/

I especially want to point out the two videos in this post.

So to bring it full circle a bit (ok, maybe an oval), the 3 pilots and I briefed for a solid hour before we even set foot in an airplane. The worst words a photographer can hear when doing something like this is: Oh, I've done this a million times before, we'll figure it out once we're in the air. RUN! No self respecting pilot will ever say this or stand for it. It compromises safety and may result in your death. And no shot is worth that.

Sagar "Two Posts In One Day" Pathak!!!!

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:54 AM

mmniemi
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #16 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Yeah, all I can do is to agree with Jim, Sagar and others... I also can not put enough pressure on the fact that always try to find pilots with enough formation experience. But if you for some reason have to go up and shooting with someone who haven't got that much of experience in formation flying, there are a couple of things that you HAVE TO make sure that everyone understands. Either way, wether the the inexperienced pilot is flying your photo platform or the subject aircraft, always make sure the inexperienced guy just flies his plane like he always does and that the guy with formation experience does the work and keep things safe for you. It's always better if the experienced pilot is flying your photo platform as then you can tell the other pilot to just fly his plane straight, slow curve etc. (Most important is to fly as smoothly as possible) and then your photo pilot takes you to positions you desire. If the situation is the worse one, ie. the inexperienced guy flying your photo plane, then the things gets a bit more difficult. Even more such things arise that you need to make sure everyone understands. For example it can be actually frightening experience for the pilot to hear the sound of the other planes propeller on your ear. You just have to make sure the pilot understands this so that he wont make any abrupt moves even if the sound tone would change, because it does change for various reasons... Then one important thing. Always try to take planes with similar speed ranges. It makes things a lot easier and most importantly safer. For just one example, don't go shoot a T-tail Piper Arrow with a C172. That Piper is not designed to handle precise enough at the slower speeds that the C172 can handle and that can lead you to big troubles. And for last, never go fly with two inexperienced pilots, NEVER! Not even with greater distances. Even though one might think that big distance is safer, it really isn't like that. With bigger distances the formation is a lot harder to keep stable, ie. the planes to keep their exact positions. For a few seconds the other plane flies too fast and the distance starts to get smaller and quicker than you notice the distance has got too small: you are suddenly on situation where only two experienced enough guys can make correct decisions fast enough to get out of it...

Gee, I didn't mean to write this long. But then again, there are still a lot of other things that would be good to know. So, if you have ANY questions, feel free to ask. No, just ASK!

But just like Sagar says, when all the guys involved know what they are doing, the session can be very the most enjoyable for everyone

Mikko

Dec 01, 2008 at 07:33 AM

futurshox
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #17 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
The downside is that I stay at 12MP instead of moving to 24MP.

However, your hard drives will thank you ;-)

I sure noticed the jump when I changed from a 6MP 10D up to 10/12MP bodies! The pictures got nicer but my discs suddenly got smaller...

Dec 01, 2008 at 12:05 PM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #18 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

mmniemi wrote:

HEHE, that's actually not what I had in mind. I remember seeing a photo of you with some natural curlyness in your hair. I thought that must have something to do with being a dentist

That guy flying the little Beechcraft, our clubs president, owns his own dental practice

Mikko

Hey Mikko - you need to tell that guy he needs to send me some work! Anyone with that much obvious intelligence and good looks needs to have an equally good... working technician, doing all he can to make superior crowns and bridges. Seriously - we accept work from all over the country... with the exception of Ohio, Kentucky and Texas - which all have goofy laws against it. (Texas has such a goofy law - i refuse to bother - even though its mostly paperwork/registration)

Really - i saw that pict and thought - dang - that guy looks like me from about 4 years ago... except I don't wear sweaters... or fly!

Dec 01, 2008 at 01:24 PM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #19 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Shameless mercenary plugs aside...

Here is another i found in the bottom of the pile..

and a couple experiments in process - not sure i like the b/w conversion - but open to comments

Dec 01, 2008 at 01:42 PM

Jon Uhler
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.247 #20 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Wow...just when you think JW couldn't impress you more...he posts the Hornet shot at the end of 245.....

Love that Greg Poe plane. Would make for an excellent RC scheme.

JB - What lens did you shoot the jumper/moon shot? Man that is tack sharp....

I like the bw over the color F-22 shot...nicely done.

Edited on Dec 01, 2008 at 03:30 PM · View previous versions

Dec 01, 2008 at 02:27 PM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #21 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

As a service to all... i just compiled the answers to Allen on A2A shooting for a brief Word document if anyone wants it. Let me know and I'll email it to you.

Moon Shot - 500mm + 1.4 at Wings over Marietta with Jeremy on one side and Rusty on the other to keep me steady...
Nose up Raptor - 500 +1.4 at Reno Air Races from the top of the flimsy aluminum grandstands at show center in a crowd of jumpers.
B/W & Color Raptor turn - 600mm at Oshkosh with Rodolfo holding the front of the lens and Jim bracing my shoulders...

it takes a village to get me to shoot decent shots!

Dec 01, 2008 at 02:49 PM

Tentacle
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #22 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

jbear2000 wrote:
Shameless mercenary plugs aside...

Here is another i found in the bottom of the pile..

You're cheating Jon

This isn't a vertical shot but, looking at the reflection of the horizon in the cockpit, a horizontal one. Nonetheless, great shot

and a couple experiments in process - not sure i like the b/w conversion - but open to comments

This is a weird combination of high-tech gear and vintage looking photo appearance. I'll need to re-visit this shot a few times more.

Dec 01, 2008 at 03:24 PM

jbear2000
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.247 #23 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

I agree with you on the B/W - it doesn't set well with me due to the anachronisticness of it. But I thought I'd try it.
As to the vertical shot - i thought that too until I looked at the original and either i had the camera sideways and don't remember it or else its just the polarized reflection on that gold canopy. Shadow and light. You're probably right though - i just don't remember. Plus i like messing with your head!

Dec 01, 2008 at 03:31 PM

Glenn Watson
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #24 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Man, Sagar - those videos are really awesome. Its amazing to me how calm and collected you look, and how slow everything appears to happen. (esp the hammerhead). I havent done any acrobatic flying, but I still remember the first power-on I did without enough right rudder and that right wing dropped so fast.

Glenn

Edited on Dec 01, 2008 at 08:35 PM · View previous versions

Dec 01, 2008 at 04:46 PM

Atrawick
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.247 #25 · Mustang Air to Air " The Sequel"

Jim,
You didn't discourage me. I'm looking at my options. I would really like to learn more on air2air. Unfortunately in South Alabama theirs no pro's to talk too and not many formation pilots. I do have one formation pilot here on the field and alot of ex airline pilots.

Sagar,
Thanks for the input and the link. liked those videos. you are truly a lucky man to ride with the Tuckers!

Mikko,
You have a good point about aircraft to shoot from. All i have access too is 172 and a few twins. I don't imagine going over 120knots with the aircrafts that wants photos. It just depends if these guys want to pay for the second plane and pilot.

jbear!
What can I say! You are truly a kind person and friend!

When ever we meet Dinner is on me! I sent you a pm with my email addy.

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:25 PM


FM Forums \| City, Still life & Abstract \| Join Image Upload 1 2 3 … 246 247 248 … 274 275 end