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A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses
  
 
r.gil
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p.60 #1 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


fotoingo
got it......it's just that all these lenses are very lonely....



Nov 04, 2013 at 02:58 PM
sebboh
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p.60 #2 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


r.gil wrote:
fotoingo
got it......it's just that all these lenses are very lonely....


we have a pretty good idea how the g45 performs on a7r (extremely well): link

and the g28 (not well): link

it stands to reason from everything we know about their performance on the NEX that the g21 will be even worse than the g28 with regard to smearing and color shift.




Nov 04, 2013 at 04:41 PM
fotoingo2
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p.60 #3 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Yeah, we have one or two tests but those are not-final cameras and every lens/camera combo can be a bit different so I take everything I see with a grain of salt.

I will test my Contax G lenses (minus the 21mm which I dont own) (and some other lenses too) myself and then decide to keep the camera or not.

But from what we can see right now the 45mm looks fine :-)



Nov 04, 2013 at 05:20 PM
Makten
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p.60 #4 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


While not being a "wide angle", I can now happily inform you that the tiny Leica 40/2 Summicron-C performs unexpectedly good on the a7R. I met Martin Agfors (I'm sure he's here, but don't know his alias) for lunch and a little walk, and he kindly lent me the a7R, while he got to play with my ZF 35/1.4 and CV 40/2.

Wide open: [EDIT: I've looked at this image over and over again, and I actually think it's the CV 35/1.2 @ f/2, but I'm not entirely sure since there is no sign of aperture blades or "onions" in the bokeh.]


Martin Agfors by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr


I also tried my Nokton 35/1.2, but either there is something wrong with it, or it must be stopped down to get sharp outside the central part of the image. So, I won't show you anything from it, but I can at least say that it does give the same color shift as the Summicron-C, which is... close to none!

The C at infinity, wide open (go to Flickr for full resolution):


Summicron-C @ f/2 by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr


And at f/5.6 (or perhaps f/8, I don't remember):


Summicron-C @ f/5.6 by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr


As you can see, despite the extremely compact design, resolution is OK even wide open, except for the extreme corners. There is a midzone hump with somewhat lower resolution, but in my opinion, absolutely nothing to worry about. The spherical aberration wide open was expected from this sort of classic lens, and I don't mind it at all.
Worth to mention is that the camera was set to some sort of auto-correction of shading, but it would be very surprising if it did something to files shot with "no lens" on the camera. Also note that CA is very, very low.

How about curvature of field? Here is a full sized semi-closeup at f/5.6:


Summicron-C @ f/5.6 by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

I must say I'm impressed. This little, unexpensive thing will do fine as a walkaround lens. Now, the FE 35/2.8 is clearly better, but it is somewhat clinical in its rendering.
Interestingly enough, the FE, Nokton and Summicron-C all have ~the same exit pupil distance from the sensor, if my eyes weren't lying.

The most important question is still unanswered: Would these lenses do better on the a7? I have no clue.

------------

Edit: And oh! If you get to try this camera with your MF lenses, be sure to turn peaking OFF. It's NOT accurate and I had a lot of images out of focus because I used peaking (even in magnified view), before I realised that was the problem. As Agfors stated; highest contrast isn't necessarily where best sharpness is.

Edit 2: If the initial shot of Martin was with the Nokton, this one is definitely with the Summicron-C:


Martin Agfors by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

100% crop, untouched JPG from the camera:







Edited on Nov 04, 2013 at 10:50 PM · View previous versions



Nov 04, 2013 at 08:05 PM
naturephoto1
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p.60 #5 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
While not being a "wide angle", I can now happily inform you that the tiny Leica 40/2 Summicron-C performs unexpectedly good on the a7R. I met Martin Agfors (I'm sure he's here, but don't know his alias) for lunch and a little walk, and he kindly lent me the a7R, while he got to play with my ZF 35/2 and CV 40/2.

Wide open:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/10675798576_c4346455b4_o.jpg
Martin Agfors by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

I also tried my Nokton 35/1.2, but either there is something wrong with it, or it must be stopped down to get sharp outside the central part of the image. So, I
...Show more

Martin,

Thank you very much for the tests. This makes me very very happy indeed. I expect and hope that my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 M-Rokkor performs like your Leica C 40mm f2 Summicron.

This should make for an excellent small package and to add to it a couple of wider angle lenses (hopefully RF) and at the longer end of the spectrum (and zooms and macro) my Leica R lenses.

Rich


Edited on Nov 04, 2013 at 09:33 PM · View previous versions



Nov 04, 2013 at 08:13 PM
sebboh
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p.60 #6 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
While not being a "wide angle", I can now happily inform you that the tiny Leica 40/2 Summicron-C performs unexpectedly good on the a7R.


this makes me extremely happy, thanks!




Nov 04, 2013 at 08:46 PM
safcraft
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p.60 #7 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
this makes me extremely happy, thanks!



You just convinced me to click the BUY IT NOW button on Sony's website ....



Nov 04, 2013 at 10:35 PM
Makten
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p.60 #8 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Guys, read my post again after an important edit: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247673/59#11910718


Nov 04, 2013 at 10:54 PM
naturephoto1
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p.60 #9 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
Guys, read my post again after an important edit: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247673/59#11910718


Martin,

I am not sure. If you look at the Bokeh for the light sources in the background, they look almost identical for the first post of Martin the the 2nd edit one that you posted.

Rich


Edited on Nov 04, 2013 at 11:01 PM · View previous versions



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:00 PM
sebboh
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p.60 #10 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
Guys, read my post again after an important edit: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247673/59#11910718


judging by the bokeh and corner highlight shapes (curved side out versus curved side in) i think you're right about the first one being the cv. doesn't change my conclusion at all.

thanks




Nov 04, 2013 at 11:00 PM
 

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naturephoto1
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p.60 #11 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
judging by the bokeh and corner highlight shapes (curved side out versus curved side in) i think you're right about the first one being the cv. doesn't change my conclusion at all.

thanks



Regardless, it doesn't change my conclusions or expectations for the lens performance either and what I should expect.

Rich



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:05 PM
Makten
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p.60 #12 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
judging by the bokeh and corner highlight shapes (curved side out versus curved side in) i think you're right about the first one being the cv. doesn't change my conclusion at all.

thanks



Good! This one is 100% sure CV 35/1.2 wide open:

Edit: Oh, did I mention I HATE photobucket? Trying hard to link to a non-compressed version.

Edit 2: Fuck it. I'm going to bed.


Edited on Nov 04, 2013 at 11:18 PM · View previous versions



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:11 PM
safcraft
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p.60 #13 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
judging by the bokeh and corner highlight shapes (curved side out versus curved side in) i think you're right about the first one being the cv. doesn't change my conclusion at all.

thanks



Ok..so THAT is a little more "real world" to me. That CV35/1.2 is indeed one sharp lens. Damn.
My Summicron-C isn't that sharp and i was mind boggled when i saw that first image as being a Leica 40/2 image!
The second image looks a lot more like what i used to see with my summicron-c.
Do you have more "close up" images from the lens ?

I am still keeping my order on the website though



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:16 PM
Makten
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p.60 #14 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


safcraft wrote:
Ok..so THAT is a little more "real world" to me. That CV35/1.2 is indeed one sharp lens. Damn.
My Summicron-C isn't that sharp and i was mind boggled when i saw that first image as being a Leica 40/2 image!
The second image looks a lot more like what i used to see with my summicron-c.
Do you have more "close up" images from the lens ?

I am still keeping my order on the website though


The CV Nokton seems to have a lot of trouble going on as soon as you focus a bit further away. The bokeh gets harsher and nothing outside the center is sharp. I don't know if it's due to the design of the lens, or how it works with the a7R sensor, but I guess it was made for portraits and/or similar PJ stuff.

These results are exactly what I saw with my previous copy on film, and on the NEX-5N. You could say it's versatile, if you are willing to stop down to ~f/4 or so at distance, if you want decent sharpness across the frame. Personally, I'd rather choose a smaller lens with harsher bokeh and better performance at a few meters.

Edit: To me, the most important news here is that none of these lenses give any significant color shift. And that the C doesn't smear! All of the aberrations seen, mirrors what you get on film, so they are optical defects of the lens, not of the camera-lens system.



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:44 PM
safcraft
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p.60 #15 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
The CV Nokton seems to have a lot of trouble going on as soon as you focus a bit further away. The bokeh gets harsher and nothing outside the center is sharp. I don't know if it's due to the design of the lens, or how it works with the a7R sensor, but I guess it was made for portraits and/or similar PJ stuff.

These results are exactly what I saw with my previous copy on film, and on the NEX-5N. You could say it's versatile, if you are willing to stop down to ~f/4 or so at distance, if
...Show more

I was referring actually to more examples of the Leica 40/2.
That is the lens i am counting on with the 7R. Do you have more "portrait" shots with it?
Thank you for the effort, truly the best on the net so far !!

Edit : Agree on the absence of smearing and color shift. Not good but GREAT news ! Really happy.



Nov 04, 2013 at 11:49 PM
uhoh7
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p.60 #16 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
this makes me extremely happy, thanks!



And u know how bummed I am .......



Nov 05, 2013 at 12:14 AM
Makten
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p.60 #17 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


safcraft wrote:
I was referring actually to more examples of the Leica 40/2.
That is the lens i am counting on with the 7R. Do you have more "portrait" shots with it?


Since I used peaking, most of the shots are out of focus, so I don't have anything more to show. You really have to magnify and focus without peaking, which could be a dealbreaker for some. Not for me.



Nov 05, 2013 at 09:25 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.60 #18 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Hmm, Steve Huff says the focus peaking is great on the A7/r. Makten, have you used it on other cameras such as the A99 that you could compare it to?


Nov 05, 2013 at 09:35 AM
sebboh
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p.60 #19 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Lee Saxon wrote:
Hmm, Steve Huff says the focus peaking is great on the A7/r. Makten, have you used it on other cameras such as the A99 that you could compare it to?


i'm sure you have to tweak it to appropriate settings, and even then you have to spend a fair bit of time practicing to get accurate with peaking. i prefer to just go without magnification or peaking most of the time.




Nov 05, 2013 at 09:38 AM
Spyro P.
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p.60 #20 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Damn u Martin, that 40 is my favourite lens of all time...
you wouldnt happen to have a photo of the lens on the camera? (how it handles, how big it is with the adapter, easy reach to the rings and tab etc)



Nov 05, 2013 at 09:39 AM
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