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Archive 2013 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy &...
  
 
Savas K
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p.1 #1 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Some input here would be helpful to help settle a dispute starting to brew. What would you do if you were the seller?

A deal on the Buy and Sell is starting to crumble with a buyer saying that I sent him an old lens that showed obvious wear and tear and that it would have been acceptable had the lens not broken completely. Here is what the buyer alleges and the images he sent supporting his claim.

Buyer had the lens for three days whereupon this PM arrives:

"I'm just getting back to you about the lense since when I received it I did notice the lense was a little on the older side, the zoom ring was faded and not totally glued anymore.

I really didn't have a problem with this as long as it worked correctly.

But one thing I noticed immediately was that if I manually focused halfway thru the zoom scale the scale would get a little stuck.. I thought it might have something to do with the zoom ring rubber not being fully glued anymore so I would just have to squeeze it a little harder.

Well to my displeasure I received my 6D last night and went to try the 50 with my new 6D (which is the whole reason I bought it) and it made a loud noise and... dead!!!

I tried manual zoom and nothing it's like the gears are stuck and it won't AF it's just not working at all.

I'm not sure how old it is and I'm not sure if you were the original owner maybe you would know or if it's just extensive wear and tear but it is officially dead as of right now.

I don't know how you would like to handle this please let me know"

I asked for photos showing evidence of the aged and broken lens and I get this:









_______________________________________________________

I then send to the buyer images of the lens I sent, taken before I sent it. Ones I sent were larger than what's posted here. I ask him to open on his computer and view them at full size.







____________________________________________________________
Whereupon the buyers response was:

"There is not much I can tell on my iPad I'm not home right now.

But the pictures have shadows so the grayish color on the focus ring is not visible."


Then another response was:

"The minute I turned the focus ring I could tell it was loose and not as tight as it should be and I'm sorry but yes they don't show up in your pictures but I really would like to know what I could do to this lense in what less than three days that would do that to the focus ring.

If you really want I can take real nice pictures of the lense and I could make it look like new but you know it isn't."

My response back:

"It is from 2007, bought new at B&H by me. This is a lens that has seen a lot of bag and shelf time; a lens I loved to use when I used it. It worked when I shipped it.

Did you think you were buying a new lens and are unhappy that it is not? Tell me where it is that I said that this lens was new in box?

I would turn that focus ring only when fine-tuning focus during testing when I got a Lens Align. The ring was tight as depicted. You might not have known I had images of such detail.

One of your sentences infers that I retouched images. I will send you the original raw file to play with if you wish. So that accusation will fall on it's face as it should.

My concern is having sent a like-new lens that operated and looked very well and upon receipt it is suddenly a heavily-used lens complete with a floppy focus ring that immediately broke."


Guys, I never represented the lens as new:

Item condition: 10 Preowned equipment, but appears as new
Shipping instructions: Shipped within the continental United States.

Original owner. This is a nice copy that I am selling along with an included ES-71II lens hood. $300.00 shipped, insured and paypal'd within the continental United States.


The kicker is that both buyer and seller have credentials. Me, with addition of genuine posting history all over FM; the buyer with a few posts primarily in the Buy and Sell.

How would you handle this if you were the seller?










Mar 02, 2013 at 02:35 AM
cobra0469
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p.1 #2 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Sounds like an unfortunate situation involving two established members.

My position is although not listed as new, you did rate a 10 indicating it "appears as new". If I were the buyer I would expect a lens in like new condition. I also sympathize with you, if I packaged a functioning lens and buyer claims it has quit functioning I would be upset and have questions.

As the seller I would offer a refund of his purchase price and request he cover return shipping. Refund would be issued once I was confident lens was not dropped or abused by him.

Just be glad it's only a $300 lens and not $5k... Good Luck!





Mar 02, 2013 at 03:37 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #3 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


+1 Take it back on his payment of shipping and insurance; inspect it upon return; if it is as he said it is, refund his bucks. It isn't worth the hassle IMHO. Oh, and publish his/her name so we can have a head's up, just in case.


Mar 02, 2013 at 12:46 PM
Savas K
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p.1 #4 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


I am getting into agreement with you trustworthy men. I have a business to run and there's responsibilities cropping up all around. It's that this was an emotional thing due to it never having happened to me before. Plus, it's a lens that had some sentimental value prior to my sending it.

As of way earlier today, the latest was my PM'ing a summary of events and it was something that I think would prevail if we were in The People's Court. Because he had insinuated that my product shots were modified to improve it's appearance, I offered 1.) to send him the out of camera raw files; and 2.) That I drive up to his house where we both can discuss it while inspecting the lens.

I will say that he didn't decline the offer; he ignored it, saying that he was going to take clear pics of the lens and send them to me and that he was busy today.




Mar 02, 2013 at 01:53 PM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #5 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


anthonysemone wrote:
+1 Take it back on his payment of shipping and insurance; inspect it upon return; if it is as he said it is, refund his bucks. It isn't worth the hassle IMHO. Oh, and publish his/her name so we can have a head's up, just in case.



+100%

Have had this happen to me and I asked for the lens back with a refund upon arrival and inspection.
I agree with poster about rating lens a "10". Be careful when doing that! I always inspect and reinspect prior to rating my "FS" items but not saying you didnot do that.

I have found out the best way is to ask for the item back IMMEDIATELY then refund his money.
In my case, buyer recinded/retracted his unpleasantness and bought the camera calling it a mistake.

Again, do be careful when rating an item "FS".
Good Luck!
Dan



Mar 02, 2013 at 02:44 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #6 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


It's that this was an emotional thing due to it never having happened to me before.

Savas: It happened to me too. The buyer thought he saw some dust inside the lens I was selling. It was only used a few times and looked new or, technically, in Like New condition. We went back and forth, but after awhile he accepted the transaction after a bit of reasoning. Another time I sent a $25 item to a buyer who said that the box was empty when he received it. Sounds crazy, but it could have happened. I sent him a new product direct from B&H. He rated it a great transaction. By luck I have maintained a "Great" rating, but in a few cases one or two might have ended up here in the Misc. Forum, or on the rating system as "Poor". All my transactions were in the old days, like 5 years ago when B&S wasn't watered down with an influx of AHs, cheap buyers, and scammers. I think we are all pushing our luck these days after achieving double digit "Great" ratings.

I think your buyer needs to video the problems, not just photograph them. A short clip taken with a cell phone would do it. That would prove things one way or another. Other than that, you are in Dilemmaville. If worth the aggravation, go for it. If not, have him return the lens and hope that he was just BSing you.


Edited on Mar 02, 2013 at 03:11 PM · View previous versions



Mar 02, 2013 at 02:52 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #7 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


I don't know who the buyer is, but just in case: did you record the serial number and/or manufacture date of the lens you sent?

Since you said your lens was in Like New condition but the lens shown in the photos above isn't, it might not be the same lens. A switcheroo might have happened somehwere along the line.



Mar 02, 2013 at 03:10 PM
Savas K
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p.1 #8 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Brian, I have the serial number. I keep a record of all camera gear and the receipts.

The guy is definitely avoiding meeting me; even though I would be doing the driving, gas, tolls for what, a fifteen minute period occupying his time?

What ticks me off is getting back a dead lens. The one in my photos is the one I shipped. He had it for three days before contacting me. He reports that the focus ring was ungluing and loose upon box opening on day one. Then he says a day or so later that he mounted it on camera and heard a loud noise and the lens expired. At that time, I get contacted by him. He had the temerity to insinuate that I made the lens look better via post processing.

Just writing that ticks me off. I just might try at smoking out the weasel by offering to have Canon Jamesburgh mediate by doing an inspection and repair order. It takes the same effort to send to Canon as it does to send back to me.

The guy has everything to gain by it as do I. No use in he and I both dying in a duel of bad feedback.



Mar 02, 2013 at 04:07 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.1 #9 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Savas K wrote:
2.) That I drive up to his house where we both can discuss it while inspecting the lens.


If you're willing/able to do this, that should be the ideal solution (and the buyer has no room for complaint). Make it clear that you're willing to refund his money on the spot if the lens (verifying it is the same one you sent) is broken as described. The focus motor failing by stripping flimsy internal gears is a known problem with the 50/1.4, so the idea of a near-mint, carefully used 50/1.4 suddenly failing isn't entirely implausible (with the stretching/distortion of the focus ring was probably caused by the buyer forcefully turning the ring after internal failure). If the buyer isn't willing to go through with this straightforward solution, that would indicate the problem is not with your lens.



Mar 02, 2013 at 04:18 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #10 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


+1


Mar 02, 2013 at 04:19 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Wobble
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p.1 #11 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


I have seen several threads where a Canon 50mm f/1.4 suddenly quits working. I have seen this personally. Got a loaner to evaluate before purchasing from the brother-in-law that he said was working fine when he put it in the safe. Mounted it on my camera and no AF. Tried on a cousin's camera that same day, same thing. Sent to Canon where they replaced USM I believe. He, the seller, paid for the repair.

Your Buyer got the lens for $25 less than the $325 asking price with the $25 hood included along with shipping and PayPal fees. This was a good deal for the buyer. Have him return the lens to you on his nickel for your evaluation.

If it is in the same condition that you sent (except for being dead), refund the money plus his shipping cost and preserve your good ratings.






Mar 02, 2013 at 04:52 PM
Savas K
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p.1 #12 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Guys, you are wonderful in helping the battered psyche.

The latest news is that buyer and I are agreed that I'll commence an inspection and repair at Canon (acting as our informal mediator) and he will ship the lens to Jamesburg with paperwork that I will email to him. Then, we go from there.



Mar 02, 2013 at 08:35 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Good process. Good luck!


Mar 02, 2013 at 09:50 PM
Grantland
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p.1 #14 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


i had a similar problem arise with a 1d2n I sold.

worked perfect when i shipped. three days after he received the body he told me ____________.

who knows if he was telling me the truth? i had big doubts. anyhow, I just told him to return it to me and i gave him a refund. i then sent it to canon to get fixed what got broke under his use. i re-listed the body and sold it. no doubt i lost money but what can you do?

oh, i too would be pissed off if he insinuated i doctored up the original pics. what a jerk.

best of luck to you.

grant



Mar 03, 2013 at 08:33 PM
ndirienzo
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p.1 #15 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Savas K wrote:
.... He reports that the focus ring was ungluing and loose upon box opening on day one.


The focus rings are not glued down. They're pretty much a rubber band that you need to stretch a bit to get into place. The only reason the rubber part of the focus ring would be pulled up like that is if he removed it.



Mar 05, 2013 at 11:14 PM
Mike1.6
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p.1 #16 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


ndirienzo wrote:
The focus rings are not glued down. They're pretty much a rubber band that you need to stretch a bit to get into place. The only reason the rubber part of the focus ring would be pulled up like that is if he removed it.


I've seen the focus band get sloppy like that on some well used lenses. You wouldn't have to remove it in order to cause that condition. Sometimes they just get used up. But, you can make the band on a new lens (non-L) do that bulge simply buy pinching and pushing up.

Good luck.



Mar 06, 2013 at 02:13 PM
ndirienzo
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p.1 #17 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Mike1.6 wrote:
I've seen the focus band get sloppy like that on some well used lenses. You wouldn't have to remove it in order to cause that condition. Sometimes they just get used up. But, you can make the band on a new lens (non-L) do that bulge simply buy pinching and pushing up.

Good luck.


Yea, I've had hundreds of lenses and never seen one get warn that badly. At the very least you'd have to pinch the rubber to do that, like you said, but that's kinda my point... you'd have to purposely mess with it in order to get it to do that.



Mar 06, 2013 at 04:00 PM
Savas K
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p.1 #18 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Gentlemen, I am pleased to announce that the story comes to a warm and fuzzy conclusion.

The buyer wants the repaired lens after my having given the buyer the choice of refund or the lens.

I had paid for the inoperable lens shipment from the buyer to Canon's facility in Jamesburg. Just today, the lens arrived at my house from the Canon spa. Canon's report indirectly indicates that it's malfunction was not caused by impact or water (which would have led to an elevated repair bill.) They inspected, replaced the cam barrel; performed tests and it met spec.

mpmendenhall, your assessment hit the nail on the head as far as I can tell. It was a brewing problem about to go and it happened to have went in the buyer's hands.

Between the start of this and hearing other's unfortunate experiences, I had done more deals and commenced checking and re-checking gear; even going so far as to videotape it's operation and packing; using PayPal's paid receipt as the proof to establish the date of taping. So the situation and subsequent learning instilled a comforting habit. Just what a near OCD needs!

Thanks again to this great FM community for the support and confidence.



Mar 16, 2013 at 09:30 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #19 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


Savas K, i'm really glad this worked out for you, sir. Any idea how many hours you spent in this transaction? And, at your hourly rate, did you get anywhere near what you were paid? Not a criticism, btw. Just a comment that underscores why I'm especially glad to sell gear to Adorama or KEH. No muss, no fuss, no bother. Lower prices? Absolutely, but not when I factor in my hourly rate for dealing with the drama. Again, glad it worked out for you. You're good to go as far as I"m concerned.


Mar 16, 2013 at 09:46 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #20 · First time for me; trouble brewing on a deal on the Buy & Sell


anthonysemone wrote:
Savas K, i'm really glad this worked out for you, sir. ...





Mar 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM
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