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Archive 2013 · Man... what happened?
  
 
friscoron
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Man... what happened?


Steady Hand wrote:
Ron,
I have noticed the same thing (thought it yesterday when I looked at this forum)...but I also noticed it and brought this up as a discussion topic 4 months ago:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1154820


I remember that, Steady. And while I agreed with you then, I think it's gotten even considerably more slower now. Maybe last fall was really the beginning of our dropoff. Hopefully, with spring coming in a couple months here in the northern hemisphere, things will pick up.

I sure miss seeing the activity that we had a couple years ago.



Jan 31, 2013 at 12:46 AM
friscoron
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Man... what happened?


squareeyez wrote:
It's my fault. All mine. Sorry, please accept the apology. I lurk, infrequently comment, yet never contribute due to insecurity.

This is Wendy my cousin-in-law. She's an actress and a model.
She knows what she's doing, I don't. Let the balance be restored...


Nice, Johnny, but post this as its own topic in the forum so it'll get the attention it deserves. No need to apologize, though, you're probably coming here for inspiration just like all of us, but you're just a little quieter. Nothing wrong with that. But please, do get over your insecurity and start posting. Not everyone is going to love what you're doing, but if you listen, you'll learn, and you'll grow as a photographer.



Jan 31, 2013 at 12:50 AM
squareeyez
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Man... what happened?


well that was a bit tongue-in-cheeky and a bit half-truthy. I love people photography as I love watching people. The kind of street photography that Justin and some other folks do is very intriguing to me. Truth be told, wedding, nature, people and macro are what I watch most and get inspired. Whenever Wendy comes over, and it ain't often, I like to get some pics and she likes to take some with her. It's a great forum here and a wonderful website. There's valleys and peaks. I bear with it.


Jan 31, 2013 at 01:00 AM
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Man... what happened?


friscoron wrote:
I'm just wondering what you guys think happened in here? Sure, people are going to come and go, but there's always been a balance of that. Any ideas on what we can do to turn things around?

What I find is that there's a pretty big disconnect between the commentary I get here and the commentary I get on my photos in general.

For me, this is what keeps me coming back. But I can see how other posters might be driven away by this.

From what I see irl, the mindset of the people who are 'seriously getting into' photography today is different than it was 7 or so years ago. Most of the new people I talk to today aren't looking to show off their work to, or have their work critiqued by other photographers.

I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done to 'turn things around', it's just what it is. I mean, for instance, there's no motivation or reason for non-photographers to be on this site, or post commentary on photos that are posted. And if you follow trends or the internet in general, among the interactive or participatory sites, in general forum sites are falling out of favor.



Jan 31, 2013 at 01:19 AM
neighbourboy
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Man... what happened?


Hey Ron, for me, it's just real life getting in the way. I don't have nearly as much time as I had in the past, and often only have a few minutes every couple of days to hop on. I'll usually either blast through and make quick comments, or do one or two long ones. I don't mind the slowness, it means I'm less likely to miss stuff ;-)

--David



Jan 31, 2013 at 02:44 AM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Man... what happened?


Well, reading through the posts it became evident that some of us were otherwise occupied.


Jan 31, 2013 at 03:37 AM
friscoron
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Man... what happened?


squareeyez wrote:
well that was a bit tongue-in-cheeky and a bit half-truthy. I love people photography as I love watching people. The kind of street photography that Justin and some other folks do is very intriguing to me. Truth be told, wedding, nature, people and macro are what I watch most and get inspired. Whenever Wendy comes over, and it ain't often, I like to get some pics and she likes to take some with her. It's a great forum here and a wonderful website. There's valleys and peaks. I bear with it.


I had no intention of coming across tongue-in-cheek or stating half-truths. Maybe you misunderstood something I wrote? It's a nice shot, and I hope you post it to the forum so you'll get some comments and feedback on it.



Jan 31, 2013 at 04:17 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Man... what happened?


Lisa_Holloway wrote:
This is as good as it gets...a dirty bathroom mirror, head cut off instagram snap from 2 weeks ago.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8189/8385541380_ae7cb9945f_o.jpg



Congratulations!!!!



Jan 31, 2013 at 05:29 AM
Bruce Sawle
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Man... what happened?


It's winter not much action going on in my area. I'm enjoying the time spent at home with the family. I have one shoot scheduled in Feb. Twins i photographed when they were 6 months old. They just turned four. I have spring sports seasons starting in March.


Jan 31, 2013 at 05:31 AM
M Lucca
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Man... what happened?


500px, tumblr, instagram, Model mayhem, Flickr....

Take your pick.



Jan 31, 2013 at 08:26 AM
 



Jim Rickards
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Man... what happened?


I've been less active lately too. More things going on elsewhere in my life, so I hit the keyboard less often, commenting on pics. I do a lot of commenting, but I don't want it to become an obligation or duty. Just do it in my spare time, if I have any.

Love this forum, though.



Jan 31, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Ernie Aubert
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Man... what happened?


Ron, squareeyez was referring to his own earlier post being tongue-in-cheek, not yours.


Jan 31, 2013 at 01:32 PM
Richard Booth
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Man... what happened?


Like most here, I have noticed this as well and have a few thoughts. In this forum particularly, we seem to get more than our share of trolls or those looking to pick a fight or share their political beliefs. We all have our political opinions, but keep them to yourself.

Next, I'm a bit turned off with the popup ads. I understand that this is a business and was disappointed to see them appear at first but they were limited mostly to photo gear. Now, I wade through ads for poolbuilders, and appliance stores.

Finally, we used to have people who shared information freely. Now it seems there are people who are trying to build a customer base for seminars or software by participating in the forums.

This site is a wonderful source of inspiration, information and networking. I think we have lost our rudder a bit here. I miss the old days.

Richard



Jan 31, 2013 at 02:04 PM
jfinite
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Man... what happened?


Yep, same for me, life gettin in the way of picture takin...


Jan 31, 2013 at 02:11 PM
CalW
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Man... what happened?


Hmmm. I used to joke that half the traffic here was likely due to the artistic posts of Francois Benveniste (FB101.) Perhaps it was true - he stopped posting a while back...


Jan 31, 2013 at 02:41 PM
Steady Hand
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Man... what happened?


I have some thoughts on this issue and a few Simple Suggestions.

There are other (many other now) photo sharing sites on the net. I don't frequent them, but know that many here obviously do (see comments above about 500px etc.).

Some are easier to browse photos or have a more attractive interface, making it easier to enjoy the photos or select which photos to view when visiting the site.

So, a "forum" style presentation where only the title of a post is shown, and one must click on a forum post to see what is inside may be...reducing the views. It is "old style" internet, and no longer visually attractive.

Because it is easier to VIEW many photos on some other types of sites.

I see a "photo sharing site" as primarily ENTERTAINMENT (a visual form of entertainment) OR a LEARNING opportunity (if one is a photographer).

I think the only advantage a forum like this has is the ability to ADD textual content and INFORMATION that goes WITH the photos when they are posted.

That is why anytime I open a discussion topic posted by someone else and see they have added a BACKSTORY or introduction remarks on how the photos were made, I compliment them on adding something MORE than just photos.

So, when someone posts a photo here, I suggest that adding "how it was made" or "What I learned at this shoot" or "My Tips on How To Make THIS KIND of photo" would be valuable, helpful, interesting CONTENT for viewing, in addition to the photos themselves. I think THAT would help FM remain a valuable site to visit.

I write this because I think the only way a forum like this will continue to have appeal is by offering interesting or INFORMATIVE or HELPFUL CONTENT that is hard to find elsewhere.

For example, recently a FM member posted some exemplary photos of animal portraits taken at a zoo. They are nice to see. But, there is nothing mentioned on HOW the photos were made to look so good. Nothing was given as TIPS or SUGGESTIONS on how to do this type of photography, or how to overcome challenges posed by the conditions or setting/scene/light/subject. I think that kind of INFORMATIVE CONTENT would make a difference and would keep people visiting this site to LEARN HOW to make better photos.

As I see it, I think IF the photographer had posted something HELPFUL or INFORMATIVE about how they made their photos look so good, it would INSPIRE and HELP other photographers to learn more about photography. In short, I think it would inspire more to get out and try to make similar photos of a similar subject, perhaps using similar tools and techniques etc.

I believe that many of the photographers who visit here are looking for a way to improve their own photography. That is why so many ask for C&C. This is particularly true of the many photographers who visit here and want to learn how to do certain genre photography such as "Senior Photos" and such. They are looking for advice on how to begin making money with their cameras. Same with people looking for advice or tips on how to improve their use of flash or studio lighting for "home studio" portraits of their own family.

I think simply posting photos here is not enough, anymore. As the competing photo oriented sites have easier viewing or more personal relevance (the photos are seen by friends and family on facebook or other social network style sites).

For example, in the past I have posted over 100 photos here (my Impressions Series) and in each case I included background on the photos, what tools I made, what challenges the photo op presented, and any tips or suggestions I thought would help others make a similar photo. Unfortunately, for anyone to see those photos on FM, one would have to know the topic name or search by my name and would have to search back through archived years and topics. That means that those posts are essentially "lost" in the many thousands of posts here on fm.

More lately, over the last two years while traveling, I have posted 900+ photos on my facebook wall. I have found the relevance and feedback at facebook higher than on FM, as the comments I receive are about the photos, the content, or they are from people in an audience who appreciate the subject. Also, I have not encountered the hostility or trolls that I have here on FM. I think the hostility, trolls, and snarky or snide remarks found on FM probably inhibit many from posting here.

Another "plus" for posting on facebook has been that all of the photos show up in an online album, where my visitors can see ALL the photos in an easy to browse "photo gallery" style of presentation. I find that style of online presentation much more appealing than a search through topics (many archived here on FM). So, I think the styling or type of online interface regarding the display of the photos is what is important (a key factor).

Given that the format of this forum style of presentation will not likely change, I believe it is up to the members here to encourage, adopt, and show by example, a more robust and informative post about the MAKING of the photos they present here.

That is my Simple Suggestion for FM.

And another suggestion: I think adding thumbnails to this site for each topic would improve the viewing and visual appeal (showing more photos on a screen).



Jan 31, 2013 at 03:34 PM
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Man... what happened?


Steady Hand, the thing is, forum websites have died for a reason.
- content is primarily written word, not much in the way of picture, no video or audio, etc.
- it doesn't lend itself to smart devices (smartphone, tablet, etc.)
- the structure is top-level and fixed
- some level of administration or policing is required (typically by third-party).
- information priority is based solely on the frequency of posts to that thread

On a social site, the structure is more group-within-group, people create their own groups, based on interest, location, friendships, or whatever. Groups grow, shrink, or gain/lose relevance over time. By and large, groups are policed or administered from within. Information is prioritized based on like/dislike rather than frequency. Content is a mixture rather than being primarily limited to the written word.

I don't think the social format is a perfect model, far from it. But it is what people use today.. and in some ways, a social medium is more suited to people who are photographing people. For instance, when I post a picture, the person in the photo can also comment and receive commentary (pretty rare here). This makes sense if you think of people photography more of a partnership between the subject and the photographer, not always true but often is.

And I don't expect that facebook, meetup, other social sites will be around forever, sites always come and go and someday the format will probably be outdated too. But I don't believe this format can be 'saved' or made popular again either, not with what is out there today. That's why I don't feel compelled at all to save it, just use it for what it is useful for.

Edited on Jan 31, 2013 at 07:01 PM · View previous versions



Jan 31, 2013 at 06:55 PM
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Man... what happened?


I think it is cause and effect from various posters demanding control and complaining about posts. Then moderators removing good folks from the line up. But hey, that's just my take.


Jan 31, 2013 at 06:59 PM
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Man... what happened?


Forreal being a forum manager or admin is a really tough job, you can't please everyone no matter what you do. It's not cause and effect as much as simple inevitability. Over time you can make 5 good decisions (ie. decisions which please 90% and displease the other 10%) and by the end of that, you've lost half your people.


Jan 31, 2013 at 07:13 PM
squareeyez
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Man... what happened?


Thanks Ernie - you are correct. Easy to take written word out of context, I've done it myself.


Jan 31, 2013 at 07:32 PM
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