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Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #1 · For play


When I saw the SOOC I immediately thought of a B&W conversion, and then AuntiPode provided one, other than cropping the reeds out altogether, I like her version, the white of the mountains against the sky is what I would have been going for if it were mine to process.

I went ahead and "played"...I edited a little different than I normally would have, using your posted image, an cropped, just at the cloud on the left, since the border clips the cloud on the right. It does end up a bit more centered than I would normally like...but for me, the stuff at the bottom was distracting.









Dec 26, 2012 at 05:19 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #2 · For play


Thanks Travis. The scout I was on is to find a place for a shot next Friday when we will have a full moon. The idea is to arrive around 5:30 AM when it is still dark and the moon is at my back and lighting up the mountains and allowing the stars to show (if no clouds).

Supposed to be 15 degrees, so it will be a challenge.

Anyway, I will want lots of sky for that. A still lake would be nice you could get a great reflection.

You did a nice B&W. I like the crop. I will never understand the reason why a horizon should not be centered. Its all like a theory to me. Whatever problem it causes people is unintelligible to me.


Dec 26, 2012 at 08:53 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #3 · For play


Pre dawn exposures might mean longer exposure, so you might get a nice water surface just from that, unless you are going to compensate low light with ISO.


Dec 26, 2012 at 09:23 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #4 · For play


This scene needs about 50mm, so to freeze stars I need a shutter around 1/10 or faster. ISO800 is tops for my current camera. F4 for DOF but if I point upwards to avoid the reeds, I can probably do f2.8.

The water will be blured a bit, but mornings are typically still. Some years we get ice but not this far north.












Last months effort further south
Dec 26, 2012 at 09:27 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #5 · For play


you are quite lucky to have such scenery near you...my wife would not be able to keep me at home on the weekends...consider me truly envious.


Dec 27, 2012 at 11:51 AM
ben egbert
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p.2 #6 · For play


I do like it. I am nervously watching the weather, it has been snowing for the last two days, pretty but the moon is not even visible. The forecast is for cloudy tomorrow and I can work with a few clouds as long as the moon can illuminate the scene. The new location is closer to the mountains, the mountains are bigger and the snow will be complete.

If not, I await the next full moon.


Dec 27, 2012 at 03:20 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #7 · For play


ben egbert wrote:
If not, I await the next full moon.

Or the next day ... or the day after that.

Since you are using the moon for your illumination only (behind you) and not as part of the subject matter to be captured, the difference in the illumination likely won't be sufficient to dynamically change the shot. I assume your exposure time will be maximum available without creating star trails for chosen focal length.

Granted there will be somewhat less illumination ( 99% - 96% ), but I think I'd rather take the shot on the next day or the day after that ... rather than wait a full month (which might be cloud covered also). Besides, you'll still have the opportunity to go back a month later, only this time armed with the information from the "day after full" shot.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_moonill2.pl

Dec 2012
Day / % Illuminated

23 / 0.80
24 / 0.87
25 / 0.93
26 / 0.97
27 / 0.99
28 / 1.00
29 / 0.99
30 / 0.96
31 / 0.91

Edited on Dec 27, 2012 at 05:16 PM · View previous versions
Dec 27, 2012 at 04:37 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #8 · For play


The real issue is that the moon setting time is ideal on the day of the full moon. It gets later each day and the angle when it is still dark is too high. This is sort of a golden hour deal.

But you are right, I got sufficient illumination at Zion with only a 1/2 moon. But the super moon last year was really bright.


Dec 27, 2012 at 04:52 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #9 · For play


Gotcha @ angle vs. time vs. lumens.

The setting time changes by about 35-40 minutes later each day.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?obj=moon&n=220

Which would put the moon "higher in the sky" for a given time (say 5:30). You mentioned that on the full moon date it will be around 15 degrees rendering a challenge. Wouldn't the slightly higher position (in exchange for the nominal luminance variance) provided by 35-40 minute later setting time provide for a lesser difficulty / increased window of opportunity?

It seems to me that a "non-full" date (waxing or waning depending on orientation of subject) would give you more latitude than the full moon date.


Edited on Dec 27, 2012 at 05:12 PM · View previous versions
Dec 27, 2012 at 05:09 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #10 · For play


did he mean 15 degrees as in cold, like too cold to be out there...insane cold...


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:10 PM
 

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RustyBug
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p.2 #11 · For play


Travis Rhoads wrote:
did he mean 15 degrees as in cold, like too cold to be out there...insane cold...

I thought he meant lighting angle.

But, @ 15 Degrees F, that could help keep sensor noise down.


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:15 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #12 · For play


I read it as temperature outside...and yeah, you wont' get much sensor heat noise at that ambient...15 degrees might be colder than its worth for me...


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:16 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #13 · For play


15 Degrees F ... no biggie (with proper attire), as long as the wind is calm. Add wind ... miserable.

Below 10 Degrees F ... things start changing pretty quickly with or without wind.


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:24 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #14 · For play


I live in Georgia...if it is 15 out...my a$$ is inside...


sorry Ben....tangents...ADD...


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:32 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #15 · For play


If it is 15 Degrees F in Georgia ... "Global Warming" is officially over.


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:44 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #16 · For play


The whole story is I am still experimenting. I need to freeze the stars. This requires wider angle or shorter shutter. My max ISO is 800. F2.8 is ok if I have nothing near, and ignore vignetting. F4 is better. I am needing all the light I can get until I get a higher ISO camera.

My last outing was UWA 14-24. But it makes the mountains small and too much foreground. I want to get up to 50mm or so and that means shorter shutter speeds.

I just shoveled my driveway, about 8 inches of snow and about 27Deg. Yes, 15 is too durn cold when standing around from say 6:00AM until sunrise at nearly 8:am. I am an old hand at doing this for eagles so I have the gear including hand warmers, but I still get cold.

I hate driving in it too. Hopefully the roads will be clear tomorrow. This location is paved, the one from last month I would never attempt predawn with snow on the last 3/4 mile of 4WD road. I would get stuck for sure and would probably not be able to see the road anyway.
Dec 27, 2012 at 05:46 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #17 · For play


haha...North Georgia gets that cold...winter of 2010 we had high teens here in Atlanta, we were frozen in for 3-4 days with 4 inches of ice on the roads...


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:47 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #18 · For play


ben egbert wrote:
I need to freeze the stars.

I assumed that was part of it.

I realize that it might go against the "trophy shot" perspective ... but two exposures one for astronomical subjects (shorter shutter), one for terrestrial subjects (longer shutter), might be a consideration.

Travis Rhoads wrote:
haha...North Georgia gets that cold...winter of 2010 we had high teens here in Atlanta, we were frozen in for 3-4 days with 4 inches of ice on the roads...

Yeah, I know ... I just couldn't resist.


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:52 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #19 · For play


That might work, its fairly easy to mask the sky. A bright moon goes against a dark sky bright points of light sort of shot and really eliminates the chance for bringing out the milky way. But this area has too much light pollution for milky way shots anyway and not clear enough.

One good thing about a higher moon is that it reduces tripod shadow. I had to clone it out last time.

Tuesday is the next clear day, but 88% moon and sets around 10:00 Am. 16 Degrees. Might be worth a try however if I miss tomorrow.


Dec 27, 2012 at 05:57 PM
Travis Rhoads
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p.2 #20 · For play


Assuming you are using the 1DsIII that is listed in your EXIF on the image above...that body won't go over ISO 800 without noticeable noise?


Dec 27, 2012 at 06:04 PM
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