Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
  

Archive 2012 · What's your take on this lens?
  
 
jeraldcook
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · What's your take on this lens?


Just to be fair the seller/trader, there definitely seem to be two camps when it comes to selling used anything:

Camp A) The camp you and I are in. I'll describe my item as best I can, so try out my item, let me know if there are any issues and I'll try to address them.

Camp B) I presuming the seller/traders camp. You're buying a used item. I'll describe it as best I can, and if it arrives in said condition, it's yours. If you want a blemish-free as-new lens, buy from BH or Adorama.

Both are reasonable positions. When I'm selling I'm a "Camp A" seller but when I'm buying I always assume I'm dealing with a "Camp B" seller.



Nov 15, 2012 at 05:46 AM
Yohan Pamudji
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #2 · What's your take on this lens?


Tough situation. On the one hand it sounds like the seller presented the item condition in good faith and didn't know about the imperfections. On the other hand the buyer (I know it's a trade, but I'm using "seller" and "buyer" because it's easier) has a right to be displeased that he received an item in condition other than expected. As a seller I would offer a partial refund or a return and full refund (I usually offer a 7 day period to do this), but that's me. I don't expect every seller to do the same, but I would hope that sellers in general are more willing to do some give and take when sticky situations arise. This is a community after all, and we all build trust by treating each other fairly. In this particular situation I would have preferred to see a more understanding and conciliatory approach by the seller instead of "you're stuck with it now". That's just bad form regardless of if the item description was provided in good faith.


Nov 15, 2012 at 06:25 AM
scottam10
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · What's your take on this lens?


Put me in Camp B. I agree that in an ideal world, 2nd hand items would be perfect and blemish-free.
Realistically though, it's a 2nd hand item and the seller has used it. 2nd hand items are cheaper than new items for exactly that reason - that's the tradeoff for saving money by buying an item 2nd hand.

If it was a serious issue that impacted the performance of the lens of course I would try to rectify it.

Both the buyer and seller seem to be 'right' in this particular case. The low price (even $1020 for a 24-70 is cheap) means that the buyer shouldn't have any trouble re-selling the lens without losing money if truly unhappy.



Nov 15, 2012 at 06:32 AM
Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · What's your take on this lens?


scottam10 wrote:
Put me in Camp B. I agree that in an ideal world, 2nd hand items would be perfect and blemish-free.
Realistically though, it's a 2nd hand item and the seller has used it. 2nd hand items are cheaper than new items for exactly that reason - that's the tradeoff for saving money by buying an item 2nd hand.

If it was a serious issue that impacted the performance of the lens of course I would try to rectify it.

Both the buyer and seller seem to be 'right' in this particular case. The low price (even $1020 for a 24-70
...Show more

+1

I agree. I'm mostly in B camp as a buyer, but try to do my homework before buying. It is unfortunate that the irregularities show up under those conditions, but I can see the previous owner not knowing about them.

I tend to inspect used items I buy very closely, and usually give a light cleaning of all surfaces, ending with the outer glass. This way, I catch everything non-mechanical for my own knowledge. Buying used (as I often do), I rely on photos and good communication before the sale, and only raise an issue if something has not been shown that should have or the piece doesn't function properly after testing.

In this case, I'm leaning toward dropping the issue unless there is a noticeable functioning problem. It's hard to get overly picky with functioning used equipment.

I do think it would be nice if the other party made you at least a small offer of refund.

You are completely within your rights to leave a poor rating on the feedback if unsatisfied.

(Remind me to stay away from trades!)



Nov 15, 2012 at 06:49 AM
jctriguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · What's your take on this lens?


Sounds like you traded a lens that was worth $800 + $200ish on your end. You got a 24-70 in good used condition for $1000 with nothing that will affect image quality. The seller described the lens exactly as he saw it and you confirm this by saying that the 'smudges' only show when you fog the front element. If I were you I would drop he issue and move on with your new lens. Every 20 or so transactions you will likely get something that has an unexpected issue, if you can't live with that I would suggest buying from a store that offers a great return policy.


Nov 15, 2012 at 07:04 AM
Gyroscope
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · What's your take on this lens?


You are worrying about nothing. The marks wont affect image. Do a search for lensrentals blog post about the affect that a cracked element has on image quality (surprisingly little) and you wont worry so much about having a spotless front element.


Nov 15, 2012 at 07:09 AM
Al3xMac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · What's your take on this lens?


So, since this is the first time Ive ever been a part of one of these online buyer forum complaints Im going to follow up on this thread so that its all laid out on the table... I beg Wahoowa not to start freaking out on me on this forum like you did over the phone. I hate coming across threads where the buyer and seller are bickering in front of everyone so someone can be declared the winner. Its childish and I won't take part in it.

When the buyer contacted me about the issue, I stated that the marks on the lens were definitely not scratches as I had inspected the lens before It left my possession and took pictures for the buyer to show that there were no marks or scratches. I have been buying and selling professionally, on forums, and on eBay for many many years and I have never had a problem such as this. I don't know about anyone else but when I inspect a lens I never fog it up. It just never crossed my mind. So when the issue was brought up to me, I assured the buyer that I did not know of the residue lines and to try the oil remover as I was quite positive it would remedy the "problem".

After that, the buyer said that if the oil residue was not to come off would I "stand behind my product and accept a return". Now, as many people have mentioned already in this thread, these lines are neither visible to the eye when looking through the lens (without fogging it up), while taking a picture, or while viewing the picture on a large screen. They simply do not show up and do not effect the lens performance in any way. The lens that I sent him was my personal lens that I bought a little while back and throughout the time I have owned it, it has been nothing but a pleasure to work with. Very sharp, no scratches and no focus problems. I never fogged the lens up because there was no reason for me to think that there was anything on the lens that was deminishing the photo quality.

Again, I suggested that he buy the oil remover and then if that didn't work we would talk. That should have been all I needed to say. I just don't have time to deal with someone making a big deal over "what-if'" situations. As you can tell this buyer is very persistent in making his point so he kept texting and texting about what I would do for him and how I should stand behind what I sold and allow him to return the lens. The lens works perfectly, the images will be as good as they would on any other 24-70 so what else does he want? Thats like him saying that the lens came with a finger smudge on the lens and that if he can't get it all off to the point where the lens looks perfect again, he wants to return it.

I hope I'm not the only one but when you buy a second hand lens you have to know that someone else has been using it beforehand. If the lens had shown up and there was anything that I hadn't describe that would effect the picture quality, then that is a valid complaint and I would take the lens back absolutely. But thats not the case here!

After all this, I apologized to the buyer for being short with him, I explained why I might have been quick to not want to deal with this today (a friend passed away this morning of a heart attack) and I even offered to pay for the residue oil remover kit. The answer I got back was "Now that sounds better". Sorry but that answer pissed me off and I don't owe the buyer anything other than to send the item that I described to the best of my ability. Thats exactly what he received; a second hand, working, sharp, scratch free Canon 24-70 F2.8 L lens. I had no idea about the residue.






Nov 15, 2012 at 07:10 AM
Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · What's your take on this lens?


Al3xMac wrote:
So, since this is the first time Ive ever been a part of one of these online buyer forum complaints Im going to follow up on this thread so that its all laid out on the table... I beg Wahoowa not to start freaking out on me on this forum like you did over the phone. I hate coming across threads where the buyer and seller are bickering in front of everyone so someone can be declared the winner. Its childish and I won't take part of it.

When the buyer contacted me about the issue, I stated that the
...Show more

That makes it sound like a different story, doesn't it?

You did realize that I included the email and the screen capture of the text messages here, right? If so, point me out to the part that I "freaked" out about it. Definitely not in the email or even after you refused to honor a return. I simply made a simple & polite request over the email. And your first response? It's "my" lens now. I could do whatever I wanted.

Of course, I do understand it's a used lens. Not the first time I've bought used lenses here. While there are members who believe it's a non-issue, there are those who believe it's an issue as well. This is not like some marks on the barrel.

Since you mentioned the "sounds better" comment, why don't you include the part of your comments that were uncalled for? Then, that would show why I made the "That sounds better." remark. I'm sorry to say that I have been completely honest and polite. I also tried to resolve the issue in good faith. But I didn't feel like I got the same thing in return.

And, lastly, this is the first time that you ever mentioned you would take the lens back and an apology.

P.S. If you'd like, I could offer the rest if the text messages to fairly show how it went further. Fair?


Edited on Nov 15, 2012 at 07:54 AM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2012 at 07:32 AM
Al3xMac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · What's your take on this lens?


The fact that you opened up a three page thread about this should show others how ridiculous and redundant our conversation was. Im a laid back guy so when you say, "hey there are these marks and I'm going to try to get them off with residue remover". I reply back with "ok do that and then if it all goes wrong we will talk". Like I said I don't have time to deal with "what if " situations. The fact is, you kept going on about it all day. I must have said the same thing about 10 times. Get the remover if it bothers you that much. Either way I had no idea about it and it doesn't effect image quality. You got the lens at a bargain price without me knowing about the issue, I just knew trading down to a 24-105 would be a lot easier than selling my lens outright. Your attitude and peskiness makes me grow tired of having to tell you the same thing over and over. Find out the facts, see if the oil goes away and if not, THEN lets talk. You asked me if I suggested that you use the cleaner which is why I said that the lens is yours, if you want to use the cleaner go for it. Go ahead and post up the conversation. As someone receiving these texts at work maybe everyone else can see how they would have felt just as annoyed with you as I did. You got your answer in the first few texts. "They aren't scratches, get the oil remover if you feel it will affect image quality. If all goes wrong, lets talk". Just because that not exactly how you wanted to hear it doesn't mean I'm refusing anything or blaming you.

You say that this is the first time you've received an apology or heard I would pay for anything?? The "that sounds better" text you sent me was in response to my apology, my explanation and my offer to pay for the ROR

I don't know what you want to get out of this? You got a lens for a great price and it was exactly as I described it which was to the best of my ability. I had no idea about the smudges, if I did I would have removed them before selling the lens. I was honest about everything else and was prompt with my email replies.

Edited on Nov 15, 2012 at 08:02 AM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2012 at 07:54 AM
scottam10
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · What's your take on this lens?


Time to get out the popcorn, let the fireworks begin!

Seriously Wahoowa, what do you want out of this?

If you want a 'perfect' lens, just re-sell it for what you paid (I don't think you'll have any problems), and find another one to buy, preferably one that you can inspect in person.



Nov 15, 2012 at 07:56 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · What's your take on this lens?


Sorry to say that the first two images of the text messages told a different story than what you tried to make it to be. If you made such an offer right from the start, it'd have been a different story.

Anyway, never mind about this. To be honest, even if the marks don't come out after trying with ROR, I don't expect you to honor a return. Even if you say you would, I wouldn't trust that I'd get my lens back in a brand new condition as I sent it out.

I guess I'd make it the end here.



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:03 AM
Al3xMac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · What's your take on this lens?


^ the exact reason why you got on my nerves today. I tell you how I think we should handle it (which is to get the facts first) and you say something like that. You have no idea who I am and to presume those things just makes you sound childish. Did you get what you wanted out of posting this whole thing on the forum?




Edited on Nov 15, 2012 at 08:08 AM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:05 AM
Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · What's your take on this lens?


scottam10 wrote:
Time to get out the popcorn, let the fireworks begin!

Seriously Wahoowa, what do you want out of this?

If you want a 'perfect' lens, just re-sell it for what you paid (I don't think you'll have any problems), and find another one to buy, preferably one that you can inspect in person.


Probably nothing at this point.

I created the thread to get some inputs on how members here thought about the issues on the lens. It's a split idea on this. And that's that.

Then, it's the matter how the seller should have handled the transaction.

When he appeared to twist the story, I had to defend myself. But it's probably pointless.



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:07 AM
Gochugogi
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · What's your take on this lens?


This thread really doesn't belong on the Canon boards and should be deleted.


Nov 15, 2012 at 08:15 AM
Shutterbug2006
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · What's your take on this lens?


It was inappropriate to post the thread if the buyer only received his item today, IMO. But yes, it should be deleted


Nov 15, 2012 at 08:19 AM
Al3xMac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · What's your take on this lens?


Completely agree.. I haven't even received the lens I traded for yet.


Nov 15, 2012 at 08:21 AM
Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #17 · What's your take on this lens?


I will report this to Fred myself to have it removed.

I guess it's over the line now. He made himself look good here, yet send me troubling text messages right at this moment.



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:22 AM
eosfun
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · What's your take on this lens?


This thread tells me more to whom I would never sell something rather than from who I would buy. I am sorry, this is buyer remorse about nothing. There is some dirt on a a second hand lens that you can only see after fogging a lens. DOH. It already told a lot to me that Wahoowa has a selling disclaimer in his profile. I don't think Al3xmac deserves a negative feedback as he gets in this three page thread from a buyer who didn't even take the effort to properly clean the lens before making a complaint. In my opinion the mods should move this to the B&S board or close the thread. This has nothing to do with what we could learn about EF mount related gear. No EOSfun in this thread.


Nov 15, 2012 at 08:26 AM
Al3xMac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · What's your take on this lens?


Wahoowa wrote:
I will report this to Fred myself to have it removed.

I guess it's over the line now. He made himself look good here, yet send me troubling text messages right at this moment.


"Troubling text" messages saying to grow up and that this thread has no business being on the forums. Like I said in my first post, this was just going to end up getting childish, big surprise... it has! I haven't even received my lens yet as part of the trade and Im being told by Wahoowa that as a UPS account holder, he can have the package redirected back to him so that ill never receive it. wonderful FM-er

Thank you EosFun, I completely agree



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:32 AM
Wahoowa
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #20 · What's your take on this lens?


eosfun wrote:
This thread tells me more to whom I would never sell something rather than from who I would buy. I am sorry, this is buyer remorse about nothing. There is some dirt on a a second hand lens that you can only see after fogging a lens. DOH. It already told a lot to me that Wahoowa has a selling disclaimer in his profile. I don't think Al3xmac deserves a negative feedback as he gets in this three page thread from a buyer who didn't even take the effort to properly clean the lens before making a complaint. In my
...Show more

Sorry that you feel that way. My disclaimer is to be sure that no problem would occur as I have had a lot of broken promises.



Nov 15, 2012 at 08:38 AM
1       2      
3
       4       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password