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Archive 2012 · What's your take on this lens?
  
 
Wahoowa
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What's your take on this lens?


I just did a trade with someone here. The front and rear elements appear to be like in the pictures after fogging the lens up. I tried to do some basic cleaning that I normally do with all other lenses, but the smears didn't come off.

I contacted the owner to see what he thought about it. I gave him a benefit of the doubt that he didn't see it before shipping it out. So, I simply asked that I would try to buy an ROR to try to clean it off. And I wondered if he would honor a return if it wouldn't come off. My take on this was that, if it wouldn't come off, it probably affects the coating of the lens and I wouldn't want that from an expensive L lens.

Strangely enough. The guy started getting upset with me about it. He said they weren't any scratches and so I should be fine with it. And he made it sound as if the smears weren't there before and so they could have happened under my hands. And, you guess it, not a single word of apology and he refused to take it back.

He told me that it's my lens now, so I can do what I wanted.

I guess I will just try to clean it with ROR. I think it'll probably come off. But I have to say that I expected better from that particular member here.






















Nov 14, 2012 at 06:29 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What's your take on this lens?


Well that's got to affect IQ in some way, it looks like Vaseline has been smeared on the lens .
I know I wouldn't be best pleased by it



Nov 14, 2012 at 06:44 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What's your take on this lens?


Edit...post deleted as N/A.

Edited on Nov 14, 2012 at 08:36 PM · View previous versions



Nov 14, 2012 at 06:48 PM
Grantland
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What's your take on this lens?


Sorry to hear about this. I would give this person a "poor" rating after this transaction.

I always want the seller satisfied when selling gear. Only once did the seller want to return an item and I gladly received it back and gave a full refund.

I find it best to talk on the phone before any transaction is done. You get a better feel from the person selling or buying gear when you talk before money is sent.



Nov 14, 2012 at 06:51 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What's your take on this lens?


PetKal wrote:
I am not sure how representative your pictures are of the reality of the front element, but if they are, then I'd say it is way past the point at which I'd consider it unfit for image making.


The smears only show up after fogging up.

I gave him a benefit of the doubt because he lives in hot zone (Florida). When the lens got here, it probably got cold from being stored in the delivery truck all night and the smears showed up right after I unboxed it.

This is how the lens looks like without fogging it up.








Nov 14, 2012 at 06:52 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What's your take on this lens?


Grantland wrote:
Sorry to hear about this. I would give this person a "poor" rating after this transaction.

I always want the seller satisfied when selling gear. Only once did the seller want to return an item and I gladly received it back and gave a full refund.

I find it best to talk on the phone before any transaction is done. You get a better feel from the person selling or buying gear when you talk before money is sent.


I didn't call him, but we traded text messages and I can tell you that it didn't go pretty. I believe I handled the conversation calmly and professionally. To be honest, after sending him a polite email asking for his take, I expected an apology and offer to pay for the ROR. And I expected that he would honor a return if it didn't come off.

But if you could see the texts, you would probably see it's no point to talk. Yes, I did get upset over the time, but not because of the issue on the lens, but over how he's handled the transaction. I was called "a kid" and was told that I shouldn't "freak" out over this little issue that he saw there was no problem to begin with. The clear messages that I got from him were

- He bought it new and never touched the front element before. Implying the smears shouldn't have happened under his possession.
- He saw no issue with his images, so there shouldn't be any problem with the lens.
- He wouldn't take a return since I have rubbed the lens all day. (I sent an email in an hour after getting the package. I wish I did video recording.)

Yes, a poor rating comes to mind, but I sure can expect some sort of retaliation.

What disappoints me is that this is probably the first time that I have any problem with anyone on this forum. Most members here seem to stand behind their product. This guy reminds me of dealing with someone on eBay.

Now, I guess I have to cross my fingers that the marks will come off with the use of ROR.

Sorry for the rant.



Nov 14, 2012 at 07:06 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What's your take on this lens?


This is how the lens looks like without fogging it up.
Well then, don't "fog" it I'll bet the images will come out perfectly fine.
Not defending the seller...but I find this all rather bizarre.
Clean it, shoot it, and enjoy the glass.



Nov 14, 2012 at 07:18 PM
Ektar25
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What's your take on this lens?


The seller should refund your money and at minimum split the return shipping fees. If you need to leave negative feedback explain the situation honestly and link back to this thread.


Nov 14, 2012 at 07:24 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What's your take on this lens?


trenchmonkey wrote:
Well then, don't "fog" it I'll bet the images will come out perfectly fine.
Not defending the seller...but I find this all rather bizarre.


Thanks for the suggestion. That's the obvious, isn't it?

I didn't get overly upset because of these marks. I guess you would probably feel the same and have some doubt after simply trying to ask the original owner what he would do if I use ROR to clean it and the marks wouldn't come off.

If it's me, I would have apologized that I never noticed it before. I would have offered the cost of the ROR without even being asked. And I would have offered a return if the issue wasn't resolved. Whether the issue persists or the buyer wants to return or not, that's a different story.

At least, that's what I did when I sold a 70-200L lens to someone who said the weather stripping was tattered before he got it. I never noticed it before. He simply said that he ordered the part from Canon and he didn't even ask for me to give him any partial refund. I did it anyway.


Edited on Nov 14, 2012 at 07:29 PM · View previous versions



Nov 14, 2012 at 07:26 PM
John Caldwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What's your take on this lens?


I have observed instances wherein fogging exposes inconsistency in a len's coating, where those inconsistencies couldn't be seen in absence of water bonding to the surface. My opinion is that rarely, if ever, can a visible front element surface defect, affect image quality. Perhaps you've seen the lenses of working photojournalists. If you doubt this, take a crayon and paint marks on a lens front element and shoot.

John Caldwell




Nov 14, 2012 at 07:26 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Wahoowa
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What's your take on this lens?


John Caldwell wrote:
I have observed instances wherein fogging exposes inconsistency in a len's coating, where those inconsistencies couldn't be seen in absence of water bonding to the surface. My opinion is that rarely, if ever, can a visible front element surface defect, affect image quality. Perhaps you've seen the lenses of working photojournalists. If you doubt this, take a crayon and paint marks on a lens front element and shoot.

John Caldwell



While I partially agree with your assessment regarding the front element, especially along with this article from lensrentals.com:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/10/front-element-scratches

I find that issues with front element can affect flares the most. So, like many others, if having a choice, I wouldn't want a lens with any sort of blemishes on the glass. Even if it doesn't affect image quality, i would definitely affect the resale value. Basically, whenever I try to sell this lens and if the marks don't come off, any potential buyer should expect me to enclose every detail of it including these blemishes. Don't you agree?

Now, rear element in the fourth picture is another story.

At this point, I'm down to 75-80% sure that the ROR will resolve this. I was 90-95% at first. But that the seller rejected to honor the return right away gives me some doubt what has happened to the lens to cause these smears. I kinda believe the original owner either 1) knew it what he's done with the lens or 2) bought this thing used and didn't check it thoroughly.



Nov 14, 2012 at 07:33 PM
kewlcanon
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What's your take on this lens?


It's pretty easy to see, something wrong with lens.. return it.


Nov 14, 2012 at 08:22 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What's your take on this lens?


I missed that bit about lens "fogging", so I will take my prevous comment back.


Nov 14, 2012 at 08:35 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What's your take on this lens?


kewlcanon wrote:
It's pretty easy to see, something wrong with lens.. return it.


Unfortunately, he's never mentioned that he'd honor a return. He suggested me to use the oil remover as it's "my lens" now. So, my take is he wouldn't take it back.

I've been in photography for 16 years and probably have owned at least 50-60 lenses. And I've never laid my hands on a lens with front element in this condition.


PetKal wrote:
I missed that bit about lens "fogging", so I will take my prevous comment back.


So, if you don't mind me asking, what do you think about it now?



Nov 14, 2012 at 08:41 PM
harrygilbert
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What's your take on this lens?


Have you taken any shots with this lens yet? If so, what were the results?


Nov 14, 2012 at 09:55 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What's your take on this lens?


Wahoowa, it's doubtful the marks will have any effect on the image quality in actual usage. I doubt that flaring would result either, but that can easily be tested.

The bottom line is, it's a used lens! How much did it cost you?



Nov 15, 2012 at 01:30 AM
zquaratella
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What's your take on this lens?


I sympathize with your situation and I too would have liked full disclosure from the seller, but I see there's a distinct possibility he never fogged the front element to see any inconsistencies. So, I see where BOTH of you could actually be correct. That being said, it's weird he won't just take it back... Maybe it's just incredibly inconvenient for him because he ships lenses via carrier pigeon and currently has all his pigeons out on delivery.

As others have said, I guess your only move now is to take incredibly awesome photographs with arguably one of the world's best lenses...



Nov 15, 2012 at 01:45 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · What's your take on this lens?


Wahoowa -- Sorry for your travail and grief over the lens.

I'm sure the seller was caught flat-footed and had never noticed the effect -- it's easy to overlook, as your one un-fogged images shows. That doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist, I'll bet the seller didn't know, especially based on his shocked reaction and poor response. Personally, I would have done different if I were the seller.

A couple years ago, I bought a 15-85 IS on eBay, and when I got it, it had similar splatter marks (but fewer and smaller), and were very evident when I fogged with my breath. I used Singh Ray fluid to clean, but a few were permanently part of the coating. I contacted the seller, who gave me the option to return for refund or keep it and get $100 refund. I took the partial refund (knowing, like you, that the marks would need disclosing if I ever sell the lens and affect price). The good news is the marks never affected picture quality in any way, and that is one of my most contrasty and sharp lenses! I often use a lens hood outdoors to hedge my bets, but I now take it anywhere with no worries about damage or splashes!

Clean it, then take a few pictures in typical contrasty scenes, and then contact the seller again, and reference this thread. Ask for a partial refund or return. Let the person know you aren't blaming them, but the marks were there on arrival.

Good luck for a smooth conclusion.



Nov 15, 2012 at 01:58 AM
n0b0
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · What's your take on this lens?


The seller obviously isn't a good businessman. Regardless whether its his fault or not, for a little issue like this, he should've taken a loss and offer to pay for the cost of cleaning it. Unless of course he doesn't intend to sell anymore product.


Nov 15, 2012 at 02:31 AM
spdntrxi
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · What's your take on this lens?


I have to remind myself to breathe on any lens I buy or sell.. I have never given that any thought to be honest.


Nov 15, 2012 at 03:19 AM
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